Interconnects Questions

[EAmin]

I'm thinking about upgrading my interconnects to Silver. Will silver always sound better than their copper counter parts?

Also, I'm thinking of only upgrading those interconnects related to my audio components. For example, I'm thinking I could get silver cables for from the CD player and Tuner to my processor, and from my processor to my stereo amplifier. However, I'm thinking I won't benefit much from an upgrade to my DVD, Sat box and multi-channel amp connections. I'm thinking I wouldn't hear as much of a difference watching movies or TV.

[georgev]

If you are going to hear improvements on the audio side then you will also hear them with your DVD player too.
As to will they sound better? Your ears will decide that. I have my reservations about spending huge sums of money on cables, but others differ.
I am sure though that for that money, if you improve your room acoustics you will get a much more significant and noticeable improvement.
Lastly,
audition them both side by side, without the dealer next to you saying "hear the improved voices etc, etc..................
Enjoy.

[saurabh]

hmmmm, interesting thread here......you know silver is a better conductor of electricity than copper.

However, sometimes, they do sound worse than copper. There is a danger when using a pure silver speaker wire is that the manufacturer or buyer, due to the cost of the pure silver, may have chosen a gauge of wire that is insufficient to power the speaker, especially during deep bass response. If the gauge is sufficient, silver cables can sound great, provided they are not picking up any electromagnetic interference. Silver speaker cables are almost always unshielded, and they employ various braiding geometries to attempt noise cancellation. Silver is definitely a better conductor of electricity than copper, but if we go back to basic electrical principles, you can overcome copper's conductivity deficiency vs. silver simply by increasing the gauge of the conductors, also if you factor in cost, copper is the hands down winner.

Another alternative would be to use silver coated copper interconnects. They are cheaper to manufacture vs. pure silver interconnects, since they contain a very small quantity of silver. The majority of these interconnects are coaxial cable, and the center conductor is coated with 99.999% pure silver (the manufacturer may add additional nines in the purity claim for marketing hype). The copper shield in the coaxial may or may not be coated with silver. The theory behind this design is promotional points, since silver is a better conductor than copper, the claim is made that the audio or video quality is greatly improved due to silvers superior electrical conductivity vs. copper. But copper's deficiency in conductivity vs. silver is easily overcome in an electrical circuit simply by increasing its gauge.

So its totally upto you on how you want to do it, also I wonder what is inside those circuit boards onto which the audio/video voltage will eventually flow.....copper or silver or silver coated copper. No matter how much broad the roads are......if the bridge inbetween is narrow, there is ought to be a traffic jam.........

[Shane Martin]

Will silver always sound better than their copper counter parts?

Some will argue yes and no. It's an endless debate. Some will even boldy say no difference. For me Silver tends to border on edgyness/brightness and I'm very sensitive to it. I know of a few people whom switched back to copper based cables after they experimented with Silver.

I believe Cat has a satisfaction guarantee of some sorts. You could try that out or try to work something out with Doug.

Club Polk has an interesting cable swap program(not with any specific manufacturer) that would allow folks to try out the various ones. I wish we'd institute(or try something) like that.

[Kevin P]

Silver interconnects in my experience are more detailed than comparable copper ICs. They don't add edge or brightness or harshness or anything; if you hear brightness, the problem isn't the cables. Cables don't add anything, but they can take away detail, especially cheap ones.

Of course, if you have a bright system, copper cables might take off a bit of the edge compared to silver, but it's doing it by masking detail, not removing the actual source of the brightness.

Here's a real life example. When I first put together my cubicle tubicle system, I bought a nice set of copper interconnects from CAT (Doug), and it sounded great. Nice, detailed, warm sound, no harshness, brightness or edginess. Being a headphone system that plays CDs, I didn't want something that would make my ears bleed, so I went with copper initially. Recently, I acquired some silver ICs from Doug for my HT and just for grins I hooked a pair up to my tubicle system, and lo and behold, even more detail! :drool: And still no harshness or brightness, the silver just brings out detail that was lost by even the high quality copper ICs I was using. Needless to say I've decided to keep the Silver Centauris in my tubicle system.

As for whether you should spend extra for quality cables, that depends on the rest of your system. Cable quality is like the icing on the cake. It won't benefit you to upgrade the cables on a $200 home theater in a box, as the weakest link lies elsewhere. But if you have a quality mid to hi-fi setup with a good receiver or pre-pro and amps and speakers, then you're likely to hear a difference with quality cables. But the difference won't be as big as if you were to upgrade your amps or speakers.

[David Meek]

For me Silver tends to border on edgyness/brightness and I'm very sensitive to it.

Shane hit on probably the largest change you'll experience with silver ICs. They are more revealing of the detail in the treble and upper-mids. Now whether that's a positive or a negative will depend on your system and your listening preferences. In an already "bright" system, say a Sony receiver and Klipsch speakers, most likely the upper end will already be prominent and not need any more help. In a "darker" system though, the enhancing of the upper registers can bring the whole into a more balanced presentation. Also, if you're like Shane and sensitive to hot top ends then the silver ICs may not be your best choice.

As always, the best thing you can do is to deal with a mfgr. with a solid return policy and listen for yourself (with your own equipment). Good luck.

[Shane Martin]

They don't add edge or brightness or harshness or anything; if you hear brightness, the problem isn't the cables. Cables don't add anything, but they can take away detail, especially cheap ones

I don't agree with the don't add edge or brightness and it was there prior. When my friends went back to copper after they too noticed the extra edginess/brightness with the silver, they didn't lose the detail that was there presently. The highs just were not as attenuated as much. Some PREFER THIS. Some don't. Sibilance/brightness is something I'm very sensitive too. I do have to wonder if some of that edginess/brightness is being masked by the tube sound you are getting though. More often then not tubes tend to roll off those high frequencies.

At any rate we're all guessing because it's system dependent.

[ekkoville]

Every post here has made the point that alot depends on the system currently in place and I agree. Doug can give great insight to how silver will react with your current components as well as future buys, so it is a great idea to talk to him and get reccomendations based on that. I have thought of silver months ago but possibly the though of Klipsch or M&K speakers makes me think otherwise. There is more to the choice than just saying silver adds or copper hides detail. Best to do a complete eval of what you have and where you plan to go.

[georgev]

[
At any rate we're all guessing because it's system dependent.[/QUOTE]


Thsi is quite right. Does that not mean now that the cable does not really have an impact? And since it is system dependant, are the differences not due to the systems and not the cables?
Just a thought.

[Kevin P]

Well, the system as a whole determines the quality of the sound you hear. The system as a whole includes everything from the source to the preamp to the amps to the speakers, the interconnects and speaker wires that connect everything together, the room itself, your ears, and even the power coming from the wall socket. Each of these affect the final result, perhaps in a subtle, perhaps in a profound way.

Switching from copper to silver ICs will change the sound of nearly any system, but whether that change is for the better or the worse depends on the system as a whole, including your ears. A system that's on the bright side to begin with might sound brighter with silver cables, or to another pair of ears that aren't as sensitive, the silver might just bring out that extra bit of detail those ears were looking for.

[Shane Martin]

While that's true Kevin,
A system on the neutral side may very well(in the case of my friend) go from neutral to bright with the Silver IC's. After switching back, he's back to listening nirvana again.

Another thing to consider with brightness is age. Most folks as they get older lose their higher end so they prefer a brighter system as they are not hearing that sibiliance that is present. I've seen this to be very true on many many occasions.

I've also seen folks whom prefer the brighter sound but don't listen to music for very long. ALot of times these are younger more inexperienced listeners. Since they don't listen to music for that long, they don't have enough time for listener fatigue to sit in. They may actually quit listening to music because of the brightness but not attribute that to the brightness.

[Chris D]

Good points, Shane.

[JonMarsh]

Just to muddy up the waters a little further, (pun intended), cable construction (physical arrangement, size of conductors, etc) will also have an impact on the perceived balance, due to factors like inductance, distribution of sonic signature, etc.

One example of a problematic combo for some systems might be silver plated copper; the theory is that the silver on the skin will emphasize the high frequencies somewhat more, depending on conductor sizes and topology.

I'm partial to braided constructions which lower the net inductance, but this tends to get costly.

The ideal thing, IMO, is to wind up with a very open, detailed, but balanced sound- which is not as easy as it might seem. I recall the developoment process of the Ayre Signature interconnects, which are made for Ayre Acoustics by Cardas, and there were multiple sets of prototypes before Charles really felt they were "right" and what he was looking for. And they don't sound the same as, say, Cardas Neutral Reference or Cardas Golden Reference cables (which don't sound the same as each other, either). (all of which are copper, BTW, not silver). One problem with silver is that you have to be very careful about the construction and the associated insulators. Silver oxides (tarnishes) easily. Some oxides of silver are conductive, others are not, depending on the base alloy composition and the insulator chemical properties. Similar issues exist with copper, not quite to the same degree; this is why Cardas uses a litz like construction, with every strand individually insulated. Makes cable preperation a little harder, but they're very stable in performance over the years.

~Jon

[Lex]

Ok, I do have to step in and say, we are in the starting block here. Thus discussing cable geometry and alloys, and insulator materials is really a little above starting. So, please keep it elementary here. Truly, Elementary means, I have to have a cable. The cable has RCAs, not XLRs. I need 5 cables. Etc...

Georgy, to your first post, EAmin said nothing about spending huge $ on cables. Only you did. Also to your second post:

Does that not mean now that the cable does not really have an impact? And since it is system dependant, are the differences not due to the systems and not the cables?
Just a thought.

First, I'm not sure who you were quoting in your half quote. However, whatever it was, it doesn't mean cables have no impact. Just because how each system sounds is system dependent, it doesn't mean changing cables won't make a difference in a system. Especially to silver from copper.

Now, please let's keep this on track.

Lex

[Clive]

Eamin, If you think that by upgrading will make a difference especially with your equipment by all means A & B this for yourself. I beleive that we all have our own unique way of perception to sight and sound. Not to say that change/upgrading is not good, but to place a definate answer to what's good or not or even what's better or not like in your case will be up to you

Eamin to continue your quest......... PM Doug,Lex he'll be willing to help you further on this :T

[EAmin]

Thanks to all for their replies. This was very informative.