.1 question

**whoaru99** · 04 January 2005, 23:37 Tuesday

I don't quite understand the relationship of the Denon receiver and the other stereo preamp(?). Are they used together somehow, or are they totally separate? Also, to me, it sounds like the speakers are connected to both units. Is this true?

In any case, if you have a sub and .1 (LFE) outputs I would set up one sub that way and probably leave the other sub connected to the main speakers. That way, you can still have your LFE to the dedicated sub and full range fronts if you so desire. Personally, I would not mix LFE to the front speakers since this will place added demands on those components (speakers and receiver) that can be offloaded to the dedicated .1 sub.

**junior77blue** · 05 January 2005, 08:16 Wednesday

Yeah, I knew this would be confusing...

My stereo preamp has a bypass processer input. I send the output F/L from the Denon reciever to my stereo preamp. My stereo preamp than has 2 outputs....one output is for the Front L/R speakers ther other is for the subwoofer.

I still have a seperate sub output on my denon going to a 2nd sub.

Make more sense?

The front L/R speakers are directly connected to teh stereo preamp. The stereo preamp however is connected to the denon reciever.

**whoaru99** · 05 January 2005, 22:56 Wednesday

A bit more sense, yes; but still confused.

Now it's the "...stereo preamp..." part that has me. When I think of preamp, I think low-level signals, not power to drive speakers - unless of course, you are using powered monitors and a powered sub.

Also, I'm still struggling with the purpose of the "stereo preamp" in this arrangement.

I appologize for asking so many questions, and providing little help so far.

**bimmer528** · 05 January 2005, 23:24 Wednesday

Originally posted by junior77blue

I have 2 subs...

One sub is connected to my Denon 3803 reciever, sub out.

k

Originally posted by junior77blue

I have 2 subs...

The other sub is connected to a stereo preamp, which also has the front L/R speakers attached to it. I use this for stereo music, 2.1 so to speak.

So your running your main speakers to your sub then sub to preamp speaker terminals? Do you mean u have an intergrated preamp? Amplification in your preamp? Or are you just taking about your speaker rca output's (fronts) from you preamp to your amp?

Originally posted by junior77blue

I have 2 subs...

My first question is do I need the .1 output from my reiever or should i just use 'no sub' and output to my front speakers in which has a sub connected (thereby being capable to play full range).

next question, is there any reason why not to use both LFE and front combined for LFE output? Thereby gaining 2 subs?

Little confusing, I know...if its not clear let me know.

From what I gather, you are using the Denon for watching movies and need the decoder. The preamp for 2 channel audio.

Are you asking how could you use both subs for both your reciever and preamp? If so, Wouldn't just a Y split work? 1 to your Reciever, 1 to your preamp? Then to the other sub, run from sub 1's line out's to sub 2's line in.

**BlazeMaster** · 06 January 2005, 00:03 Thursday

I don't quite get it either, I have the Denon 2805 and I have all LFE sent to my SVS PB12plus/2 only. I don't quite see how the stereo preamp and the 2nd sub ties into the picture.
If you want to use both subs all the time for movies a Y spliter would do the trick. Are you sure you have a 2nd sub option on the 3803? I have the 2805, the last time I checked there is only one LFE output. And of course, you'd need to use the LFE output on the 3803, I don't see how you can send signals to your sub, otherwise.
Maybe you're thinking about using the high level output on your subs and hook 'em up each to your L&R speaker, then you'd definitly need something more powerful than the 3803 to get satisfactory results.

**junior77blue** · 06 January 2005, 01:38 Thursday

I can see I have done a horrible job in conveying my question. And I appreciate the efforts in trying to interpret my questions. Just goes to show you I can't watch football and ask intelligent questions at the same time.

Blazemaster, I think you understand my setup but maybe not completely. So, I'll try again...

I am using the denon for DVD decoding (DTS/DD) primarily. I am not using any of the channels of amplification from the denon. I AM using the preouts, C,RRear,LRear channels go directly to an seperate amplifier 3 channel amp. The LFE output goes to sub #1. The left and right preouts go to a seperate stereo preamp (not an integrated amp, No amplfication).

The stereo preamp has 2 sets of preouts, one set goes to my stereo amplfier which in turn feeds my B&W N804s (full frequency), while the other goes to subwoofer (#2) with a low pass crossover.

This stereo preamp, ampfier and subwoofer #2 are used for stereo sources, i.e. tuner/CD/MD/iPod...etc. Thereby generating a 2.1 system.

When I watch movies through my DVD player, I have a couple of options within the bass management controls of the Denon Reciever.

1) LFE Output with Fixed crossover point for the rest of the channels (~40,60,100Hz)
2) LFE Output + Front L/R Speakers combined
3) No sub out, just use front main speakers (thereby only using the sub connected to the stereo preamp and removing the need of subwoofer #1)

I guess the question I would like to have answered is this:

If I were to turn the sub OFF on my denon reciever, does the LFE output just get sent out to the front left/right preouts? How does this compare to a dedicatd .1 channel? Is one way better or than the other...or will it be the same?

**purplepeople** · 06 January 2005, 03:33 Thursday

Okay, now I get it. The stereo amp was missing in the original descriptions so the thinking was that the Denon was also providing the gain.

So this is how I see the problem: You want to use both subs for both surround and stereo applications. For AC3 and the Denon takes care of bass management, it prevents LF from reaching the preamp and then the second sub. If you run AC3 L/R channels full range, the first sub doesn't get any LF. For stereo sources, Denon's sub doesn't get signal.

I find that a lot of LF is actually quite directional, especially for stereo mixes. So...if both subs are the same, I would run them off the second preamp outputs, then run full range 5.0 from the Denon into the pre. If you use L for sub #1 and R for sub #2 and place them under or very near your mains you will closely match the arrival times with the sound from the mains and get their apparent direction the same. Since that's probably also near the corners, you will get added bass lift and lots of rumble.

ensen.

**junior77blue** · 06 January 2005, 09:18 Thursday

Actually, the stereo preamp does not provide the gain, when using the processor input it almost acts as a bypass. The gain in driven from the denon reciever.

Unfortunately, the subs are from different manufacturers.

I also do not need/want to have both subs running in stereo mode.

So, how does the .1 signal compare to a signal that is sent directly to the front l/r channels? i.e. if I were to set NO sub, then set front l/r to LARGE speakers thereby sending them full range signal.

Is there any difference in theory?

I do have the option (through the denon bass management) of sending a full signal to the stereo preamp while simultaneously sending the LFE signal to sub #1. This is how I currently have it setup.

**purplepeople** · 06 January 2005, 12:14 Thursday

Bass management is a fancy way of saying digital crossover. I don't know the specifics for the Denon but some units can control the XO frequency as well as the level. If there is no control over the XO frequency, then AC3 specification defaults to 120Hz.

So, for AC3:

L/R set to large or full range = 20Hz - 20kHz
L/R set to small = 120Hz - 20kHz
LFE set to on = 20Hz - 120Hz

ensen.

**junior77blue** · 06 January 2005, 13:48 Thursday

There are selectable crossover frequencies, I believe they are 40, 60, 80, 100, or 120Hz.

And yes, you can independantly control the volume of each channel, ±12dB or there abouts.

**whoaru99** · 06 January 2005, 22:56 Thursday

I think to answer your question, in theory, there is probably no difference what speakers play the LFE and or bass so long as they are capable. However in real life, there comes in the capability part...

I think one of your questions was how does the LFE signal compare to the full range signal. Well, LFE is completely independent of the "normal" bass signal. The LFE contains only what is programmed in the .1 channel, it does not normally contain much, if any, of the bass from other channels.

If you set the sub to "none" all bass is routed to any speakers set to large including bass from all speakers set to small and from the .1 LFE channel. I think you will need some exceptionally good L/R speakers and quite a bit of power to run them loud for HT with the sub set to "none". With this setup it seems you have no choice but to run the fronts as "large" since that is the only way you'll get much benefit from sub #2 while doing HT.

The main reason for not running LFE + full range to your front speakers and sub #2 is whether or not they and their amplifiers have what it takes to keep up if you decide to crank it up some.

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