It's here, the Benchmark DAC1

[watchthewaves]

Geoff,

Video-wise, even without seeing the 2910, I know I can live with either player.

Audio-wise, before I even decide to A/B the 2910-DAC1 and 3910-DAC1 combinations, I would like to hear views on a 3910 vs DAC1 comparison first. If there is not a big audio difference, I might just buy the 3910 alone (and mebbe get the DAC1 later when the upgrade bug bites again ).

Because I can't get the DAC1 in my country, if I buy it direct from Benchmark and then decide to return it, the intl shipping cost is tidy sum. So I'm hoping to hear from those who have heard both the 3910 and DAC1 first before I decide to put down my money for the DAC1.

BTW, the 2 DVDPs use different audio DACs. The 2910 uses the DACs from the 2200. Speculation is that the 2910 will have PQ close to the 3910 but it's AQ will be lower (2200?).

[Aussie Geoff]

SimonS,

I presume you have seen this Audioholics Artcile which has an interesting comparison chart of the features of all the new Denon players. Certainly the 2910 and 3910 are in a league of their own in the Denon range...

Good luck with your search - I suspect with the Denon 3910 being so new - you may need to just (as you suspected) buy it and then wait some time to see when someone gets to try it with the DAC1.

Geoff

[Steve Goff]

The new Soundstage equipment reviews for October have a rave review of the Dac1 by Doug Schneider here.

[watchthewaves]

Aughh .... tempting ..... :drool: ..... I might just end up picking it up before thinking about the DVDP.

[Chuck]

Any decision? I have the same debate. I actually have a 3910 waiting for me at Magnolia Hifi but have the sudden urge to cancel it and just go with the benchmark...

Any comments?

[ThomasW]

I actually have a 3910 waiting for me at Magnolia Hifi but have the sudden urge to cancel it and just go with the benchmark

That would be a good idea .... :wink:

[Steve Goff]

Well, the 3910 does other things very well, such as SACD and DVD Audio, and excellent video. It would also be a great transport for the Dac1, for two-channel audio.

[Chuck]

another question, although this is more relevant to Rotel owners, or possibly any dolby pro logic II user: So if I use the benchmark as an input, is that ALL transferred to digital to process for the 5.1 PLII(x) speakers(and then transferred back)? Or are those 2 channels passed along unharmed to the front left and right speakers, while the center and surrounds are sampled and manipulated digitally before being processed by the receiver's dacs?

I'd love to have both the 3910 and the benchmark, but when you include the economics of it, I become a little worried that the 5910, if it exists, will have some form of HD compatibility. Ok, please answer the first question, and possibly advise to the following concerns:
1) Benchmark: worried about outdating product, is there a plan for a 5.1 or more DAC?
2) Denon 3910: Any word on how soon HD compatible players will be out there for high-end use? I'm a little worried, again, about it being outdated by a mile soon.
3) If you had to choose between DVD-A / SACD (which you have little of) or 'renewing' your current CD collection with the benchmark, what would you do?

Thanks!

[Chris D]

Hi, Chuck! Feel free to get the 3910 at Magnolia Hi-Fi, and then drop it off down here at my place in Puyallup. Just a short drive...

[ajpoe]

[QUOTE=Chuck]:
1) Benchmark: worried about outdating product, is there a plan for a 5.1 or more DAC?
2) Denon 3910: Any word on how soon HD compatible players will be out there for high-end use? I'm a little worried, again, about it being outdated by a mile soon.
3) If you had to choose between DVD-A / SACD (which you have little of) or 'renewing' your current CD collection with the benchmark, what would you do?
QUOTE]

1. The Benchmark is for 2 channel music only. I don't think you're going to have to worry about it becoming outdated very soon. I have read of people using multiple dacs (i.e. 3 for a 6 channel HT setup) for 5.1, too.

2. I was concerned about spending a lot on a DVD player too b/c of the potential for HD DVDs, etc. I just went with the Zenith DVB318. And, it has the upscaling via component as a bonus. You can get it for less than $200, I'm not sure how much the Denon runs.

3. I haven't gotten into the DVD-A / SACD craze, but I have purchased the Benchmark and I have really enjoyed listening to my 2 channel system, more so than ever before.

Just my 2 cents, but I'm sure there are others with a lot more knowledge than I who can add...

AJ

[Brandon B]

[QUOTE=ajpoe]

:
I have read of people using multiple dacs (i.e. 3 for a 6 channel HT setup) for 5.1, too.

How do you split up 5.1 DD or DTS signals on a single SPDIF to 3 separate 2 ch SPDIF signals?

BB

[wineguy28]

I've been following this thread and am very interested in the Benchmark. I was thinking about getting a dedicated CD player, most likely a Rotel RCD-1072.

I have a Denon DVD-2910 now and was considering supplementing it with a Benchmark for CD's. The 2910 is currently hooked up via Silver Lynx Coax (AWESOME cable...thanks Lex) to a Rotel 1068.

I can't figure out what happens to the DD/DTS bitstream once I put a DAC1 in the mix...any ideas? In order to get CD via DAC1 and DD/DTS via 1068 to work would I need to swap cables?

Thanks everyone, great thread.

Wineguy28

[Steve Goff]

The Denon has both both coax and optical digital outputs, so you could connect it via optical to the Dac1, leaving the coax connection to the Rotel for DD/DTS.

[wineguy28]

Thanks, I feel like an idiot... that suggestion makes so much sense...

[Bruce]

Jon or Thomas,

Are either of you thinking about getting a USB converter/port installed in a DAC1?

I'm doing research on a lossless format PC music server with USB output that can feed a DAC and store all my music.

I wonder, since the Benchmark came from the Pro-Audio world, if they will offer such a n option soon?

[ThomasW]

Bruce,

The DAC-1 is a very compact pkg. I doubt that there's room to put the interface let alone the associated circuitry.



You might give Benchmark a call. Posts on several forums have indicated that they are very receptive to answering calls concerning the product.

[Steve Goff]

There are USB to optical S/PDIF converters available that work well in this situation, and XP has native drivers for them. I use one made by Onkyo called the UD-5.

[ajpoe]

How do you split up 5.1 DD or DTS signals on a single SPDIF to 3 separate 2 ch SPDIF signals?

BB

Brandon,

I looked around to see where I saw the use of multiple DAC1s. The Benchmark site has it, but on further review, it looks as though it's a studio that records 5.1 using them. I'm guessing they have equipment we don't have access to and we wouldn't be able to use multiple DAC1s for DD or DTS.

AJ

[JonMarsh]

They're using them for monitoring multi-channel PCM feeds at 96 kHz. Doug Sax uses them this way.

It's not a DD or DTS signal, both of which are compressed multiplexed digital feeds on SPDIF, in a different (incompatible) format.

Regards,

Jon

[Bruce]

Well I asked about a USB port, now lets try something a little diifferent.

Anybody think an Ethernet port (10/100) will be seen as an input port on a DAC like the Benchmark anytime soon?

Since high-quality Ethernet chip sets are pretty cheap, I wonder how hard this would be to implement?

[aud19]

Now we need someone to invent an inline device that splits the 6 (5.1) digital channels from coax/optical in to three sets of 2-channel digital outs to connect to three DAC's! :B JK! :rofl:

I would think it would be easier for Benchmark to develop a combo 2 and 5.1 channel capable unit. It would be interesting to know if they had something like that in the works...?

Jason

[Steve Goff]

Now we need someone to invent an inline device that splits the 6 (5.1) digital channels from coax/optical in to three sets of 2-channel digital outs to connect to three DAC's! :B JK! :rofl:

I would think it would be easier for Benchmark to develop a combo 2 and 5.1 channel capable unit. It would be interesting to know if they had something like that in the works...?

Jason

For Dolby Digital and DTS, you need a device that decodes the lossy digital audio data into discrete PCM channels. For DVD-Audio, you need a device that outputs three s/pdif signals, each with two PCM channels.

Actually, the new digital connection called HDMI combines a digital video signal connection similar to DVI and four S/PDIF connections, for a total of eight audio channels. It may be possible that a device could be made to strip out the audio and present it as four S/PDIF channels, either coax or optical. It is not clear to me whether a HDMI receiver is necessary to do this.

The new Denon DVD 3910 has HDMI settings to let it do all the decoding, speaker distance, and bass managment, and send the resultant 5.1 digital audio channels via HDMI to the receiver or processor. It also has an audio decoder for DTS and Dolby Digital, and provides a digital crossover for two channel augmented by a subwoofer, but it does not implement Dolby Prologic II. It is possible that you could break out the audio and feed it to three Dac1's, but you'd need gain and volume control after that.

Better to try to get some audio manufacturer to hire Benchmark's engineers to do the digital design work on a new surround-sound processor.

[aud19]

Actually Steve, I was just thinking it would be nice to have a DAC1 that was capable of upsampling both 2-channel and DD/DTS audio via the digital connection to the DAC1 and outputting the upsampled, analog signal to your pre/pro. That a bit to ask especially considering if you wanted to also connect your pre/pro to analog SACD/DVD-A connection you'd then need 2 set of analog inputs unless you connect those via firewire/HDMI which are just starting to become more prolific. Not to mention with DD/DTS cabability the DAC1 would be approaching pre/pro status anyways...

Guess I should just start saving my pennies for a top notch pre/pro with firewire/HDMI and kick-@$$ upsampling... :roll: Or a top notch HTPC :lol:

Jason

[Brandon B]

I know DD/DTS are packetized and lossy compression-based as opposed to standard PCM, but once reconstituted into a bitsream and decompressed, is PCM what they end up as before DAC, or some other format(s)?

BB

[Steve Goff]

They both end up as PCM at the DAC.

[myki]

I'm really intrigued with the DAC1. I'm in the market for a new cd player and this might be a good option since I can connect this to my Pioneer DV-676A universal player.

Here are my options:

1) NAD C542 - I used to own this and I liked it.
2) Rotel RCD-1072 - I heard this and it was great too. It will also look good with my matching RMB-1075 amp.
3) Arcam CD73T

I haven't heard these yet but my friends recommend it:
4) Jolida JD-100
5) ShengYa CD-S100
6) Cayin CDT-15a
7) Opera Consonance CD120

And now, I can add to this list:
8) Benchmark DAC-1
9) Musical Fidelity A3.24

I plan to get my choice in a few weeks so any additional inputs will be great. Has anyone tried comparing these players with the DAC-1?

I need to trim down the list and do an audition on the finalists.

[JonMarsh]

OK folks, for those of you still reading instead of listening, here's an interesting and well written review about the Benchmark putting it in the context of fairly high end gear- it's a fun read, too.

6moons Audio Review of Benchmark DAC1

[Davey]

Jon,

FYI, there's also a review in The Audio Critic.

http://theaudiocritic.com/blog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=10&blogId=1

Davey.

[JonMarsh]

I don't have a subscription to the online Audio Critic, the link just takes me to a sign up form, requiring a credit card transactio with verisign. Apparently they've converted from a print publication to a webzine, as of last month (Feb 2005). I used to subscribe to The Audio Critic back in the late 80s (or was it early 90s?) but an erratic publicatio schedule, and reviews and philosophy which didn't jibe with my personal experience (i.e., CD players sound mostly the same, as do amplifiers) made me lose interest.

He did have a review recently on the Orion diople system, which was quite positive (well, duh! )

I do appreciate that they do measurements (one of my big problems with most of the other "subjectivist" mags than Stereophile), but it's been ages since I've read up on what Peter Axcel has to say... should I get in touch again?

~Jon

[Davey]

Jon,

Well, time will tell how this webzine works out......but he only wants $13.00.

Davey.

[JonMarsh]

The price is reasonable. I just spent ~ $75 on digital magazine subscriptions (from Zinio), because I can read them even on an airplane offline, so my budget is blown there- saving up for Praxis now, and watching my pennies (to say nothing of April 15.

Well, there's later this year- one interesting thing about his subscription cost is that it's a "one time" fee to sign up, then good as long as he's in business.

[Patt]

New toys...New toys!

That Benchmark looks like a solid well made piece of electronics.

[jazznsoccer]

SO has anyone tried the Denon 3910 and DAC1 combo?

[Spearmint]

I have been looking for a DAC for a wee while now, and this unit has me intrigued. It retails in Australia for $1795 should be cheaper through some of the resellers I hope.

Has anyone in Australia checked out the street price yet?

Dac1 Australian Distributor

[Patt]

SO has anyone tried the Denon 3910 and DAC1 combo?

So that DAC1 could provide a better picture than a 3910????

If so it could be a huge upgrade for my 2900. :E

[David Meek]

Nope, the DAC1 is not a picture improver. It works on the audio portion only.

[Patt]

Thank you,

I have been trying to figure out exactly what a DAC does.

I had the opportunity to compare my 2900 side by side for a couple weeks with the Denon 5-disc carousel and I could not really tell a difference. Now I suppose the modest stereo reciever could very well had something to do with that. The speakers at that time were Paradigm studio 40's.

[ajpoe]

I just wanted to note that the DAC1 is only for 2 channel audio. It won't work with multichannel audio like DD or DTS. If you use the same DVD player for movies and to play CDs then you'd have to probably run the optical to the DAC1 for 2 channel and use the coaxial to carry DD and DTS.

AJ

[Spearmint]

Okay all you good people are now in trouble...BIG trouble when I inform the wife that I have just purchased one of these DAC1's.

I will not take the blame myself (not that I am scared or anything :frypan: ), I will move it into your direction, because if you hadn't of told me how good these things are I would not have bought one – How is that for logic?

Some how I don’t think this logic will work, and I will be deep in poo when the good lady discovers the amount on the credit card.

Thanks again for sharing this device with us, I will report back once I have it set up and run in for a few days.

[Spearmint]

Alright, I have this "LITTLE" baby in the car boot, can't get over how small it is. Still good things come in small packages so they say.

Is it easy to change the input levels that Jon was mentioning in an earlier post?

Also are there instructions on how to do it?

[Spearmint]

Had the DAC1 operational for around 24hrs now.

Switching between the Rotel RCD1072 DAC’s & the DAC1 there appears only to be subtle differences in the sound, the DAC1 is the better of the two, bass is tighter and more refined, the mid range is ever so slightly mellow, but appears to have more detail, I guess what I am trying to say is it is like the subtle tones and instruments are bought up in audio level. I am not sure how to describe it, guess we will have to wait for Jon to do his review. The highs are just that high without any loss of detail, and no fatigue, according to the review that Jon linked the DAC1 will only get better in the upper freq’s as it clocks up more hours.

I have been giving my CD collection a bit of a hiding as well as some SACD’s and the results are just fantastic IMO.

Anyway just to test things out I put on “Gheorghe Zamfir – The Lonely Shepherd” and cranked the volume up to above normal listening to check how it handled the Pan-Flute in the upper registers all I can say it was a marvel to listen to, no breakdown in detail and plenty of dynamics especially when the drums kick in.

[JonMarsh]

Okay all you good people are now in trouble...BIG trouble when I inform the wife that I have just purchased one of these DAC1's.

I will not take the blame myself (not that I am scared or anything :frypan: ), I will move it into your direction, because if you hadn't of told me how good these things are I would not have bought one – How is that for logic?

Some how I don’t think this logic will work, and I will be deep in poo when the good lady discovers the amount on the credit card.

Thanks again for sharing this device with us, I will report back once I have it set up and run in for a few days.

Tell your wife it's all my fault- it's a cult mind control thing from the USA- hopefully she doesn't have contacts with the Mafia to arrange a "hit" in California, and though I intend to get to Oz some day, the closest I've been so far is just Singapore, which is a comfortable distance away from a chagrined spouse... :B

[Spearmint]

Tell your wife it's all my fault- it's a cult mind control thing from the USA- hopefully she doesn't have contacts with the Mafia to arrange a "hit" in California, and though I intend to get to Oz some day, the closest I've been so far is just Singapore, which is a comfortable distance away from a chagrined spouse... :B

Duly told there Jon…

If and when you do come a visiting there are a couple of moulds by the backdoor for your new cement shoes. :B

Thanks for bringing the DAC1 to my attention Jon, very much appreciated, very happy with its performance and saved myself a considerable amount of money by buying this instead of some of the other DAC’s I was considering.

Although I cannot comment on the DAC1 performance against the other more expensive units, it has bought a new lease of life to my CD collection, and makes for a more pleasurable experience.

The sound stage has opened up and instruments like a piano sound like the notes are floating in the room always moving – amazing.

Interesting listening to SACD 2ch via the DAC1, it brings out any and every flaw in the recordings, so when you listen to well recorded discs like Diana Krall, Steely Dan, LAGQ, to name a few its brings about a new level of appreciation IMO.

[Spearmint]

If anyone is interested in how our little GTG went regarding DAC's and in particular the Benchmark DAC1 with the MF X-10v3 please look at the link below...

DAC GTG

[DifferentLee]

I do live to 2 track recording and I use this DAC for listening to playback and I have to say most recording engineers I know love the sound. I think it's a great value for the money. I use it to enhance the sound of my Sony SACD SCD-777ES player.