OK, how about speakers?

[Brandon B]

Well, after Jon pointed out my profile still showed me in Japan, I managed to lock myself out of my account through a typo. Now that's fixed.

I noticed in a post on HarmonicDiscord, that Thomas didn't sound ultra keen on VMPS ("they're box speakers", or something to that effect), so the question would be, do you think the RM40's I was going to suggest for my friend are a poor choice for the $, or was that more an expression of your personal preference?

I know HD doesn't provide the broadest spectrum of opinions sometimes, but I thought the CES Best of SHow award was a pretty good recommendaton. I have not heard these myself though.

So anything better that does not get into difficult placement issues like a planar for under $5K for the pair?

BB

[SiliGoose]

What are the RM40s? Link?

I'm not familiar with that abbreviation or model.




-Sili

[ThomasW]

Brandon

You took my statement out of context. The post was talking about the Legacy Whisper design It has dipole woofers. My statement was that they, the Whispers, don't have the same sonic signature as box speaker like the VMPS.

I haven't heard the VMPS, it may be a good speaker. But it won't have the same midbass characteristics as a dipole.

If you hold on for a little while Jon's cooking up a 'new' design that's a variant of the Linkwitz dipole. So you're talking cone drivers but with dipole mounting. This should be quite interesting. And cost under $2k..

Think Arvo Parrot


Sili

VMPS RM 40




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[Brandon B]

Sorry Thomas. I was going by memory, and as always, it's hard to tell tone from online text.

My friend probably isn't buying for a month or 2. When do you think the dipoles would be done, and is there any way to hear them in the L.A. area?

Siligoose - vmpsaudio.com

The RM40's are their new largest ribbon based monitors (RM) and everyone seems to find them pretty snazzy regardless of price category.

Hey, I just noticed, I got zinged back to 0 posts when I messed up my account. Crud.

BB

[SiliGoose]

Big speakers! Thanks for the link.

How much are they?




-Sili

[ThomasW]

Brandon

Jon lives in Livermore CA, I'll probably have a pair here in Denver as well

Sili

$3800+/pr for the RM40s




theAudioWorx
Klone-Audio

[JonMarsh]

Interesting question, planar's versus boxes, per se.

The RM40's have gotten some very positive write ups, including best of show awards this year. I have no doubt they are excellent performers, based on the "reviews" and the way Brian Cheney operates and his past successes. His designer's corner on his site is an interesting read, and some of his comments (such as regarding tweeters) reflects my own experience.

Now, to inject a little "controversy" into this discussion, I'm going to come out and say that box speakers and planars aren't really any less critical than each other for "placement", if you're looking for accurate sound and optimum imaging. I will suggest that the problems which occur with "misplaced" box speakers are so commonly encountered and are of a nature that more people are willing to accept them than in the case of a dipole or planar speaker. In other words, the most common errors locating a "box" speaker (and lordy knows I've built plenty of those result in heavy than normal bass and muddied bass reproduction (which a lot of folks are pretty danged used to), while grossly misplacing a dipole or planar may result in the bass largely disappearing, which is a little harder to ignore.


"Box" speakers
In the case of box speakers, I'm a very strong proponent of using setup guidelines from Cardas as a starting point, then analyzing/optimizing the listening posisiton and if necessary the speaker position (with tools such as CARA or RPG Room Optimizer) for the smoothest room response from 20Hz to 300 Hz, then using the old "mirror" trick to control early reflections in the mids/highs and minimize comb filtering.

Dipole Speakers
With a dipole speaker, such as a planar (Acoustat, Quad, Martin-Logan, Magneplanar, etc), you have a modified figure 8 radiation pattern. This creates nulls to the sides of the speaker, and results in much more freedom for lateral positioning, compared with a speaker with omnipolar radiation in the bass/midbass/lower midrange. This gives a little more freedom for room setup, and optimizing the lateral spread of the image, depending on the distance to the "prime" listening position.


So which is really harder to position for the optimal sound? And considering the reduction in the level of room interaction which occurs with a dipole, which is capable of the most transparent sound with minimum work on acoustical treatments? My experience suggests dipoles, whether they be dynamic point source dipoles, or line source planar types (which have their own additional benefits and caveats).

But, you can even get some pretty stunning sound out of a pair of 8" two ways in boxes, properly setup.


Mit freundlich gruessen,

Jon




Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....

[Brandon B]

On reflection, that's all true. I was thinking in terms of having a speaker whose back is stood out from a wall I guess, but a planar is thin enough that the front ends up in pretty much the same place.

A more accurate description of my placement concern would be "my friend has a 5 year old, so it would be good if the speakers are heavy to avoid tipping and he can't get behind them to foul the wiring."

His room is to be dedicated for music/HT, but still the kids will end up in there.

I have taught my four year old that the speakers are Dad's toys that he does not share, and to be careful around them (MMG's that I have right now). My eventual DIY's I am planning on making rather more robust for the short term.

BB

[Lex]

Once kids learn the word no, they are fairly quick studies to stay away from things that produce the word no, unless they are "trying" you. Speakers with a lowe center of gravity are probably best , as well leave them against the wall until they are grown up a bit.

Tall Maggies, that are lighter, and easier to shift forward, probably not a great idea. really...

Lex

[Andrew Pratt]

Doug its very easy to make stands for maggies that are heavy and wide at the bottom which makes them much less likely to tip over. My rears were set up like this to raise them 8" and the bottom base plate is about 18" square so they are fairly stable...I could put a brick on the sides if extra stability were required but these will end up being wall mounted so that's one less set of speaker to worry about

[ton1313]

Brandon,

In all seriousness, please check out the Druids from Zu. You can read my reviews on them at HarmonicDiscord.com . There is a condensed version in the Verified Reviews Section. At this post, I am the only consumer to have purchased a pair in the states. You owe it to yourself to demo these. They have a 1' square foot print and they integrate into any home space well.

Their performance is absolutely stunning at their price.

[David Meek]

What kind of equipment was driving the RM40's at CES?

Is there a URL for viewing the Druid's?




David - HTGuide flunky
Our "Theater"
Our DVDs on DVD Tracker

[ton1313]

The link for the Druids is http://www.zucable.com/loudspeakers.html They have since released a new speaker called the Shol. The Druid is their flagship speaker.