Digital decisions

[neilmaui]

So just spent the last 30 minutes writing this monologue on my current dilemma as to whether I should jump into computer based audio and for some reason my post didn't upload...maybe a good thing. So long and short of it. Thinking of switching to computer based audio, through a DAC then into my Denon amp. Just about to build some mini statements so thought it may be a good time to change the front end too. Currently playing through a Denon CD system. Like the idea of higher quality streaming like MOG, ripping current collection onto hard drive and the ease and versatility of access. I would appreciate anyone's views and input!

[Chris D]

Several guys here are doing that with reported good results. I've had difficulties with induced noise from the computer.

[Ovation]

I use a Mac with iTunes and an Airport Express to stream to my living room system--nothing fancy but no noise issues. For critical listening, I rely on discs and my main system in the HT, but I seem to have fewer and fewer opportunities for that kind of listening these days (comes and goes in terms of available time). Have transferred about half my CDs onto my hard drive in Apple Lossless. Makes for a convenient way to access my music in the living room (no need to run discs up and down).

A dedicated DAC would allow further flexibility and hi-res audio options that I don't have, but I don't need that degree of quality in the living room on a regular basis (and, if needed, I do have a nice Marantz SACD/DVD-A/CD player for critical listening duties in the living room).

[mjb]

I use a Mac with iTunes and an Airport Express to stream to my living room system--nothing fancy but no noise issues..... Have transferred about half my CDs onto my hard drive in Apple Lossless.

Ditto. A Mac Mini with music ripped as Apple Lossless makes for a fantastic source. A Mac Mini supports analog, SP/Dif, USB, or HDMI audio out - Highly recommended!

[neilmaui]

Thanks for the feedback guys, any idea how close the sound quality should get to a reasonable CD? I'm thinking apple lossless fed through the new Meridian Explorer DAC then into my Denon amp, through mini statements....

[Hdale85]

Through a nice DAC and with decent software I'd say it should be pretty dang close if not a bit better. You can use something like EAC which compares your rips to online archives to give you the absolute best rip and will net you lower jitter in the end playing it back digitally. It's all about setup for the most part but I've had excellent results as others here have as well.

[dtb300]

One of the best places to visit for great information on Computer Audio is this site:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/

Guides, Builds, reviews....it is all there

[neilmaui]

Thanks DTB been checking that site for a while, that's where I found the Meridian DAC. Just wanted an unbiased opinion from this forum as opposed to one dedicated to computer audio..

[RPAudio1]

If you're converting standard CDs by ripping them to your library- I recommend waves files. That is what is on the CD, so bit for bit it will be exactly the same. You can always convert to another format, but wave will still be the highest resolution from a standard CD.
With modern HD sizes, the larger size won't be an issue anymore.

[Hdale85]

Any lossless codec works great really. FLAC easily being the most popular.

[Ovation]

The advantage of Apple Lossless, to me, at any rate, is that it is more user friendly within iTunes (album artwork, organization, etc.) and I can store more Apple Lossless tracks on my iPhone than the equivalent WAV files. Besides, I have tried to distinguish between an Apple Lossless version and a WAV version of several tracks, in my living room 2 channel system, my HT and with my B&W P5 headphones. No discernible difference to my ears. YMMV.

[wkhanna]

IMHO.....

You first must decide which operating system you want to use.
Apple (ITunes - WAV) is easiest, but is not flexible.
PC (Windows - FLAC) is V flexible, but requires knowledge of the operating system.

I use PC and love the ability to customize, but without the help of my dear friend Dan (PewterTA) I would never have been able to set it up myself.

I use dBpoweramp (~$30) to rip to FLAC.
EAC is free, but can be a bitch to set up properly.

I got into CA so I can rip my vinyl library.
I still love my vinyl, nothing will ever replace what putting a disc on the platter does for me.
But having my Seedee's, HiRes & vinyl on the computer is one of best things I ever did.

[mjb]

IMHO I'd stay away from WAV (aka. Windows Audio) , on any platform. FLAC is a good alternative, but it has poor Mac/iPod support.

There is not one bit of difference (pun intended) in lossless formats (WAV/AIF/FLAC/ALAC - hence: lossless), but ALAC (Apple Lossless) is about half the size of WAV, and can be played on almost anything. iTunes (the program) is a free download, and its everywhere so AAC, or better ALAC, is going to be playable for ever.

I still love my vinyl too, I grew up with it, but you just can't beat the convenience of a large hard drive and some jukebox software - I've got some 25k tracks just a mouse click away. It takes me half an hour to find a record, lol.

[neilmaui]

Thanks guys really appreciate the feedback. So for those that can do A/B comparisons is there a big discernible difference between CD and a lossless file played through a very good DAC into your amp? My thoughts are that with the speed everything is changing in the world of computers it won't be long before this format overtakes CD. I agree nothing will replace the interaction of sliding out the vinyl and watching that spinning platter....but in today's world of convenience and advances in technology I'm really looking into adding a proper computer based system rather than just streaming Pandora and my other music from my IPad!!!

[Ovation]

As I connect to my receiver digitally from the Airport Express and it has a very good Wolfson DAC doing the work, I've compared CDs to Apple Lossless (level-matched--that is always crucial in such comparisons) and found no discernible difference. My gear is not bargain basement (Integra DTR 6.4 AVR, PSB Imagine B standmount speakers--total cost in 2013 dollars, about 2800$), but it is not "high end". Therefore, I cannot say that no gear exists to reveal a difference. However, I can say no gear I can afford exists to potentially reveal a difference and, in the end, that's what matters to me. FWIW, I listen to music with the Pure Audio mode engaged in this system, as there is no bass management required in my setup, so no need for any processing of the signal beyond an end point digital to analogue conversion.

[JeremyG]

If you rip your music to a lossless compression file (FLAC, ALAC, etc), you can add metadata to it, like album art and track names. For years I've used a first generation AppleTV (the one with the hard disc) connected to a Marantz receiver, and comparing A/B playing CDs through a Sony blu-ray player I cannot tell a difference in sound quality. The HDCD light even comes on the processor when I play a HDCD file through the AppleTV, so the ripping is pretty accurate.

I have both ALAC and FLAC files, and converting whatever format you want is easy with software. Plus there's enough plug ins to most music servers that you can just about use any format. Apple has made their ALAC open source now, as well.

Also, it is awesome to be able to have all of my music ready to play at my fingertips at a moment's notice, and not have to track down the CD that has the song that I want to hear RIGHT NOW.

And if you need further proof, our vary own JonMarsh uses a MacMini as his usual music player. 'Nuf said.

[wkhanna]

If you rip your music to a lossless compression file (FLAC, ALAC, etc), you can add metadata to it, like album art and track names.

This is a V important issue for me. Especially when your library begins to grow.
As far which lossless files......memory is cheap & getting cheaper.
Why risk having to re-rip latter to take advantage?
One thing that can never be stressed enough, though, is ....... Always Back-Up!

[PewterTA]

For one... ALAC or FLAC will not sound ANY different than the CD. Where it tends to sound different is when one does not implement the transport of the data properly. If you don't take the care and then no matter what you do to record in any lossless format... you won't get the same sound as the CD.

You need to take into a couple considerations (all of which can be done on either side Windows or MAC)... first is when you rip, you need to make sure you're getting an accurate copy of the data on the disc. This includes a decent CD/DVD/Bluray drive to rip with, proper ripping software (dbpoweramp, XLD), and verifying the audio (accurip and other online databases and using secure ripping mode when reading the disc). Storage, while some say that you should play from SSD vs standard HD.. keep it wherever... it doesn't really matter all that much (yes it can matter, but it's the "looking at it under a microscope" type of thing). I'd agree with WKHanna, make sure you back it up to a secondary location is a first priority and getting either a RAID setup or sometype of a NAS to keep the data on is secondary. One big HD in a computer works.

The next thing you need to worry about is that the software needs to be able to output bit-perfect data. If it can't do that, then you're not starting off right on the playback. iTunes, while I've seen people claim they can get it doing it well, most things I've read... the quality just doesn't compare to many of the other audiophile playback software.

Third and lastly, you need to decide on the best output transport to get the data to the DAC... there's still computers that have good SPDIF interfaces that work, though many don't and you need some type of a USB transport that will convert the data to a compatible SPDIF signal to get to your DAC. Course if the DAC has a USB input then you're set and can to straight to it.

One of the benefits of me using my Cambridge Audio 840c CDP as both a CDP and DAC is that I have been able to tweak and find the right parts to bring the audio off the computer identically to the DAC in the CDP so that it sounds exactly the same (and in a lot of cases better) than the exact same disc played in it. It's to the point that I now prefer to rip any CDs I get straight to my server and stream it to the DAC as it sounds identical. Plus you also have the realm of HD (24/96-24/192, etc)... which can sound even better than your typical redbook.

It's a journey is the best way I can put it. As much as one tweaks their system to get it to sound the way they like it... this must also happen on the digital side because no two ways produce the same sound on the same system.