DTS Master Audio and DD Tru HD myth and reality

[wettou]

I am confused:

I heard that if you have a blu ray player like the Sony BDP-S550 that decodes DTS HD Master Audio and Dolby Digital Tru HD hooked up to a receiver that does not have the capability to decode these format but has HDMi 1.3 that you can still have the audio in the movies in high resolution?

Would someone care to explain?

Also what is the best:
1. To decode in the pre/pro or
2. In the player,

I am looking at a high end pre/pro the Classé SSP-800 that doesn't currently decode these formats, but I am told it doesn't matter as long as the blu ray players decodes the format. I can still hear DTS MA or DD tru HD? Is that so?

Thanks for the help

[Kal Rubinson]

Would someone care to explain?

Also what is the best:
1. To decode in the pre/pro or
2. In the player,

No definitive answer. Moot.

I am looking at a high end pre/pro the Classé SSP-800 that doesn't currently decode these formats, but I am told it doesn't matter as long as the blu ray players decodes the format. I can still hear DTS MA or DD tru HD? Is that so?

Yes

Kal

[Blindamood]

If the processor supports HDMI 1.1 or better, the player can do the decoding and send PCM to the processor (those players that can decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio, anyway). This is really no better or worse than sending the bitstream to the processor to decode, except that players generally don't have the bass management features that the processors/receivers do.

[Kal Rubinson]

If the processor supports HDMI 1.1 or better, the player can do the decoding and send PCM to the processor (those players that can decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio, anyway). This is really no better or worse than sending the bitstream to the processor to decode, except that players generally don't have the bass management features that the processors/receivers do.

The bass management is irrelevant since modern processors/receivers can do that with both bitstream and PCM input.

Kal

[Chris D]

Here's some discussion threads, in which I've talked about the high-res audio formats and details:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=26062

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=27758

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?p=338855#post338855

Bottom line, as mentioned above, NO, there is no difference in audio quality, between passing HBR over HDMI 1.3 for processor decoding, or player decoding and sending PCM over HDMI 1.1 or higher to the processor. You just have to make sure the processor can receive PCM, by having HDMI 1.1 or higher audio reception. Now, if you use player decoding and then send the signal over multichannel ANALOG connections, then there's a change.

[wettou]

Bottom line, as mentioned above, NO, there is no difference in audio quality, between passing HBR over HDMI 1.3 for processor decoding, or player decoding and sending PCM over HDMI 1.1 or higher to the processor. You just have to make sure the processor can receive PCM, by having HDMI 1.1 or higher audio reception. Now, if you use player decoding and then send the signal over multichannel ANALOG connections, then there's a change.

Sorry I am thick but you are saying there is no difference between PCM and Bitstream?

So if the processor has HDMi 1.3 but doesn't decode the new codec and I use a blu ray player that can deccode the new codec I will get DTS HD Master Audio or DD tru HD?

So what is the advantage to decode into the processor vs the player?

[Kal Rubinson]

So what is the advantage to decode into the processor vs the player?

None. Both work equally well.

Kal

[wettou]

None. Both work equally well. Kal

Thanks so you really don't need decoding in the processor?

Now what about SACD? With the new SCAD you can pass DSD with HDMi to the pre/pro what happens if the pre/pro can not decode DSD?

[littlesaint]

Thanks so you really don't need decoding in the processor?

Now what about SACD? With the new SCAD you can pass DSD with HDMi to the pre/pro what happens if the pre/pro can not decode DSD?

Some (all?) SACD players that utilize HDMI can transcode the SACD to PCM, which again would not require anything special in the processor.

One note about HD codecs for Blu-ray. There is a difference in how secondary audio streams are handled. With processor decoding, the combined audio leaves the player as a lossy codec to be decoded by the processor, with player decoding the output is PCM with the original lossless audio intact. Of course if your using a secondary audio stream such as commentary tracks, you probably don't care if the main track is lossless, but it is a difference between the two.

[wettou]

Some (all?) SACD players that utilize HDMI can transcode the SACD to PCM, which again would not require anything special in the processor. One note about HD codecs for Blu-ray. There is a difference in how secondary audio streams are handled. With processor decoding, the combined audio leaves the player as a lossy codec to be decoded by the processor, with player decoding the output is PCM with the original lossless audio intact. Of course if your using a secondary audio stream such as commentary tracks, you probably don't care if the main track is lossless, but it is a difference between the two.

Isn't DSD better than PCM? Also I am looking at the Sony SCD-XA5400ES

As for blu ray, I only care about high resolution for the movie

[littlesaint]

Isn't DSD better than PCM? Also I am looking at the Sony SCD-XA5400ES

As for blu ray, I only care about high resolution for the movie

IMO, it's debatable whether you can hear any difference. However, with DSD you lose any bass management, speaker delay, and EQ settings in your processor.

[Kal Rubinson]

Some (all?) SACD players that utilize HDMI can transcode the SACD to PCM, which again would not require anything special in the processor.

One note about HD codecs for Blu-ray. There is a difference in how secondary audio streams are handled. With processor decoding, the combined audio leaves the player as a lossy codec to be decoded by the processor, with player decoding the output is PCM with the original lossless audio intact. Of course if your using a secondary audio stream such as commentary tracks, you probably don't care if the main track is lossless, but it is a difference between the two.

Granted. I was ignoring that issue for (1) the reason you mention and (2) I am one of those who prefer to optimize audio at the expense of bells-and-whistles. Clearly, the wettou is concerned about that, too.

Kal

[Kal Rubinson]

IMO, it's debatable whether you can hear any difference. However, with DSD you lose any bass management, speaker delay, and EQ settings in your processor.

Unless you let the processor convert the DSD to PCM for those purposes. IMHO, the advantages of those processes, especially room EQ, greatly outweigh the vanishingly minimal potential effect of transcoding.

Kal

[wettou]

I think I got it, basically it's just decrypting the file in the blu ray and passing the PCM uncompressed information info to the pre/pro digitally thru HDMi 1.3 and the conversion to analogue is then done in the processor

Ah! it took me a while to figure it out? Thank you

[merlinus]

I set the SSP-800 audio mode for my Blu-ray player to "discrete," which I believe sends the signals directly through.

Therefore the player does the processing, and the fact that the 800 does not have the latest-and-greatest codecs is irrelevant.