A preamp in a Receiver based setup ?

[timetohunt]

From the very beginning of starting up my new system about a year ago [ 5.1 setup using an AVR]. I have amped my front speakers with separate amplification opposed to that of the receiver. That is likely not unusual, as I'm sure a few others do this.

Is there anyone that also uses a preamp for the fronts in a 5.1 receiver setup, and what if at all, are the connections, functionality, and purpose of such a configuration.

I was just dreaming up various things as I plan to replace my amp for the fronts, and took it one step beyond in my thinking. Does it bog down user friendlyness of such a setup?

FYI: I play CDs most of the time. Then concert DVDs come in a relatively close second (enjoying dolby 5.1 or DTS mostly with the DVDs).

[Glen B]

I do the opposite, using a separate 2-channel amp driven from the receiver preouts to drive the fronts. The HT setup serves double-duty for secondary 2-channel reproduction but the electronics in the (Onkyo) receiver is the sonic weakpoint. I've been toying with incorporating either a separate 2-channel preamp driving the amp directly or upgrading to a better quality receiver with preouts like a Cambridge Azur or Outlaw for example, that emphasize sound quality over mass-market features. Whatever I go with has to be configured so that my wife can turn on the system and listen to music with the press of a single button.

[dtb300]

Timetohunt: I have the setup you are asking about (I believe). What do you need to know?

Glen B: A nice 2ch Pre Amp will be far better than any receiver you buy (this is my opinion). But again depends on your budget and what you think you can spend.

[Glen B]

Glen B: A nice 2ch Pre Amp will be far better than any receiver you buy (this is my opinion).

True, but I use the system for occasional, casual listening and am not looking to invest too much. I already have a separate, high end 2-channel system for serious listening.

[Hamblis]

Preamp versus processor for 2 channel listening

.....Is there anyone that also uses a preamp for the fronts in a 5.1 receiver setup, and what if at all, are the connections, functionality, and purpose of such a configuration......

You've asked your question in such an encompassing way that you may get a lot of detail you already know. Apologies if that's the case here. A preamp will give you better sound quality than a 5.1 receiver. If your 5.1 receiver supports unity gain pass through, it's possible to connect a preamp to it so that, for 2 channel listening, you bypass the 5.1 circuits. The down side is complexity, especially if you have family who use the system.

There are several options to reduce complexity and increase sound quality. One, depending on budget and desire to do it and given that DVD's come a close second to CD's, is to consider changing to a quality multi channel processor. For example, a Meridian 565 or 568 would offer great 2 and 5 channel sound. That approach would separate amplification from sound processing and would allow tighter amp matching across all channels. (This may be completely way off track but you did say you were dreaming up various things...)

Steve

[wkhanna]

I have the front L&R pre-outs from my Rotel 1066 pre-pro run to the L&R inputs on my tube hybrid 2ch pre-amp. I have my CDp run direct to my pre-amp, too. When I want to listen to my CD’s, I switch the source selector on the 2ch pre-amp to the CD channel, and pre-adjust the volume before playing. The draw back is that the two sources have different output voltages, and I had to use a dB meter to determine the equivalent volume settings on the pre-amp for the two sources. I put a small sticky arrow the volume knob and now it is second nature to reset the volume.

[timetohunt]

I do the opposite, using a separate 2-channel amp driven from the receiver preouts to drive the fronts. The HT setup serves double-duty for secondary 2-channel reproduction but the electronics in the (Onkyo) receiver is the sonic weakpoint. I've been toying with incorporating either a separate 2-channel preamp driving the amp directly or upgrading to a better quality receiver with preouts like a Cambridge Azur or Outlaw for example, that emphasize sound quality over mass-market features. Whatever I go with has to be configured so that my wife can turn on the system and listen to music with the press of a single button.

Slight miscommunication on my part possibly. The setup is like yours, going from the preouts in the receiver to the amp.

[timetohunt]

You've asked your question in such an encompassing way that you may get a lot of detail you already know. Apologies if that's the case here. A preamp will give you better sound quality than a 5.1 receiver. If your 5.1 receiver supports unity gain pass through, it's possible to connect a preamp to it so that, for 2 channel listening, you bypass the 5.1 circuits. The down side is complexity, especially if you have family who use the system.

There are several options to reduce complexity and increase sound quality. One, depending on budget and desire to do it and given that DVD's come a close second to CD's, is to consider changing to a quality multi channel processor. For example, a Meridian 565 or 568 would offer great 2 and 5 channel sound. That approach would separate amplification from sound processing and would allow tighter amp matching across all channels. (This may be completely way off track but you did say you were dreaming up various things...)

Steve

Yes I am dreaming up some things so your advice is right on. Thanks. What is 'unity gain passthrough'. I will be picking up a Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH, a $1300 reciever to replace my old one. Wonder if this has that, and if it does, it might be under different nomenclature.

[timetohunt]

upgrading to a better quality receiver with preouts like a Cambridge Azur or Outlaw for example, that emphasize sound quality over mass-market features. button.

Beside the standard preouts what type of preouts do you mean?

If you could do a quick flow of what you would be trying to accomplish.

eg. AVR Preout >>>> Amp ... I'm just trying to picture it, the topic is a little foggy to me.

thanks

[Hamblis]

A lot of modern preamplifiers have a home theatre pass through, or unity gain, option. With it, you can connect the left and right pre outs of the surround processor to the unity gain imputs of the preamp so that the signal will pass though the preamp, essentially untouched. For that input, then, the surround processor controls the volume of the left and right channels as well as the surround channels. (So it's the preamp that needs the unity gain setting, not the new Pioneer receiver).

Re Glen B's comment: Glen is doing exactly what you currently do - driving surround speakers directly from the surround receiver and driving a stero amp for the front left and right speakers from the pre out connections on the receiver.

Starting at the speaker end of the system, the schematic you want to draw is:

FL Speaker; Centre Speaker; FR speaker

RL Speaker; Sub Woofer; RR Speaker

Stereo Amplifier; Preamplifier; Surround Receiver; CD Player; DVD Player, TV, Radio Tuner, etc.

To connect:
Connect CD player to the preamplifer (and any other sources where extra sound quality in 2 channel mode is important). Connect DVD and any other sources to the surround receiver; Connect rear speakers and Sub woofer to the surround receiver; connect front left and front right of surround processor pre outs to the unity gain / home theatre pass through on the preamplifier. Connect the stereo amplifer to the preamplifier, connect front left and front right speakers to the stereo amplifer.

For 2 channel sources, you ignore the surround receiver and use the preamp to control the system. For DVD, TV, etc., you use the surround receiver to control the system.

Hope this helps. It's definitely not easy to get your mind round it...

One thought: As you've decided to buy the Pioneer, you may want to hold off making other changes until you've become familiar with it's sound.

Steve

[gd]

A lot of modern preamplifiers have a home theatre pass through, or unity gain, option.

As far as I know, there are actually few pre's with HT bypass... I can only recall two that are under $2K, made by Modwright and Rogue.

Unless you know something I don't know.

Got a list of makes?

[Glen B]

The Parasound Classic 2100 is a current preamp model that has HT passthrough. The Classé CP-50 and CP-60 also came with the feature.

[Hamblis]

Preamps with HT pass th

rough

As far as I know, there are actually few pre's with HT bypass... I can only recall two that are under $2K, made by Modwright and Rogue.
Got a list of makes?

gd, I stick by what I said. You can Google them just as easily and that saves space here. I wasn't thinking of price when I wrote earlier but, after your post, I looked into it. To Modwright and Rogue you can add Parasound, NuForce, Adcom (no idea of quality there, though) and others. Also, from a value standpoint, a number of high end models like Conrad Johnson's PV14 come up at good prices now.

Steve

[dtb300]

gd, I stick by what I said. You can Google them just as easily and that saves space here. I wasn't thinking of price when I wrote earlier but, after your post, I looked into it. To Modwright and Rogue you can add Parasound, NuForce, Adcom (no idea of quality there, though) and others. Also, from a value standpoint, a number of high end models like Conrad Johnson's PV14 come up at good prices now.

Add ARC and Cary to that list.