equalizer, before or after preamp ???

[bleeding ears]

Hi guys, The title says it all..

where should an equalizer go for the front speakers ?

does it matter if it is placed before or after the preamp and why ?

Any ideas ?

[OttoMatic]

If you can adjust the levels properly, it's probably better to put it before the preamp.

That way, you'll be able to predict the voltage range of the incoming signal. This will allow you to maintain the best dynamic range from the device and keep noise the lowest.

If you put it after the preamp, your signal could have huge variations. Consider the difference between your lowest listening level and your loudest. The input stage of the EQ may well be overloaded in the loudest case, and the dynamic range will be the least in the quietest case.

Another option would be to place it in the tape loop of your preamp, if it has one. Again, that's generally "before" the output of the preamp, so you won't get those large swings of signal going into the EQ.

Good luck.

[Kal Rubinson]

While I agree with OttoMatic, you should also note that putting it before the preamp limits its effectiveness to the one source that feeds it. Putting it after the preamp would allow it to affect all sources.

Kal

[OttoMatic]

If he can put it in the tape loop, though, wouldn't it then apply to whatever source is switched in?

[Karma]

HI,
Actually, equalizers are designed to either go in the tape loop or after the preamp. The tape loop is useful if you have a receiver many of which to not include a pre-out/power in connection capabillity thus precluding any connection unless you use the tape loop. If you do have these connections, and you have a receiver, that is a perfectly useful configuration. You will suffer no harm connecting to the output of the preamp. It is a normal line level output.

To interject a personal opinion, no equalizer is the best course.

Sparky

[OttoMatic]

To interject a personal opinion, no equalizer is the best course.

Agree on that!

[bleeding ears]

Thanks guys, looks like there are a few options, perhaps trying all options would determine what works best or sounds best. At least now I have some idea of the pros and cons.

Perhaps, as has been said, no equalizer at all is best, but I am unable to do any room treatments and want to experiment a little to try and eliminate some bass problems I get when running my fronts full range.

Tried different speakers, different preamps, different amps, moved speakers around and away from walls, tried port plugs (works somewhat ,but reduces sound quality).

Besides room treatments, (which is not an opton for me) or an equalizer, the only alternative I have is to run the fronts as small, which I then find needs the subwoofer to get adequate bass.

yes, I do sometimes get a bit of a muddied bass with the sub, but this can usually be tweaked out to a satisfactory level.

Am I the only one that gets this excessive bass problem with the fronts set to large or full range ?

Pete

[Karma]

HI,
Not to beat a dead horse, but why are room treatments impossible? The reason I ask is because there are so many options. They range from very technical to very informal and beautiful but still effective. If it's the WAF, well what's to be done, right? A new wife? :W

Sparky

[gross30]

I have my Behringer after pre-amp, as to enjoy it's full effect if I need to.

[bleeding ears]

Karma, yes it is mostly WAF and the fact that we are happy with the furnishing and decoration of the room/s that we have now, so altering things is not really a preferred option.

The area I use is rather large and incorporates a lounge room, rumpus area, kitchen/meals area and is also open plan, leading to another lounge dining area etc, which I am sure makes the task of treating the room/s more complex, and expensive.

No doubt it is not the ideal hometheatre/hi fi room size or shape, but until I get a dedicated room with treatments (in my next house) I have to work with what I have somehow.

Perhaps moving up to a better sub (with a parametric equalizer etc) and running the fronts with an 80hz crossover to sub is another option.?

Still, I guess it cannot hurt to try out an equalizer for the fronts to see what happens.

PS: a newer wife, say a 21 year old would be good too. Hope my wife doesnt see this.

Pete

[wkhanna]

Hope my wife doesnt see this.

Pete

If she does, you can start looking the 'new' wife!

[bleeding ears]

If she does, you can start looking the 'new' wife!

I am constantly on the lookout, just in case the current wife gets jack of me.

I just cannot find a woman that is into hometheatre/hi fi and likes big fat hairy ugly old men with no money or personality. :lol:

[OttoMatic]

I have my Behringer after pre-amp, as to enjoy it's full effect if I need to.

Yeah, I have mine there as well, but only because I have to. I'd prefer it to be before the preamp, so that I could maintain the highest SNR at lower listening levels. Because I don't normally listen at reference levels, the signal that's fed to the BFD is usually very low with respect to its maximum expected input. That "very low" signal then starts to get lost in the noise. That would not happen if it were inserted before the preamp output (well, it would happen to a certain degree on quiet passages, but you get the point).

To the original poster: When running mains as full-range, and no sub, I get reasonable bass, and sometimes it can be a little much, depending on the recording or type of music. I'm sure you've tried adjusting the "bass" control on your existing preamp. I find that some of those controls are centered about the frequency where you'd probably get complaints about loud bass or boomy bass (about 100 Hz or 120 Hz). What happens when you adjust that level? If you haven't tried this, give it a shot. In general, it's "EQ", and it's much less intrusive than using an external EQ.

While I think room treatments are a great idea in general, I'm not sure they will help all that much in taming bass problems. Most people use them to tame reflections for higher frequency problems that are more difficult to deal with via electronic equalization. And most people use EQ to handle poor subwoofer response and room interaction, which are much more difficult to control with treatments because of the sheer magnitude of the sound waves. Yes, bass traps can be used to reduce boominess, but it'll take a lot, and it may not be as effective as you need.

[Kal Rubinson]

Am I the only one that gets this excessive bass problem with the fronts set to large or full range ? Pete

Nope. That's common and one of the reasons for using a sub: The best position for balance and imaging is rarely the best position for bass. What it comes down to are the contstraints you have to deal with. WAF is only one but basic acoustical issues are unavoidable and, frankly, cannot be whisked away with an EQ. It's not a magic bullet.

Kal