Help with System built on Klipsch Speakers

[timetohunt]

Hello, I'm really starting fresh, so forgive me if some of the questions seem so basic:
I have been blessed with a gift of some decent speakers:
Klipsch RF-83s (I think its their biggest tower/fronts)
and a Klipsch RW-12d sub (a 350 watt with built-in amp, about $650 retail, I think).
These are the most expensive speakers I have ever owned and prabubly ever will.

I am using a Pioneer VSX-816 receiver right now. And yes I know that this is a lower end unit but as a processor what more do I need? I don't care much about video stuff - just sound.

My key importance is 2-channel but I do want the abiltiy of 5.1 as well.

I noticed that when I turn the volume up on the 816 it overloads and shuts down (it did not do that with my old junk speakers). What is happening here? I'm sure I should get an amp for the nice new mains that I have been gifted. What does make the receiver overload - Just want to understand that part.

The primary question is this: The 816 has preouts - do I get another amp and tie in with the 816 for the Klipcsh R-83s? And what amp?

Also, I am playing my music off of a $70 Sony DVD/CD Player. Likely also not doing justice to the decent set of speakers. What player?

I only want to spend another grand on the whole system.

I have been advised on room treatments and will look into that was well. Any advice here would be good too.

Not trying to shoot for the stars. But I think these speakers deserve some good electronics. Where from here guys? Thanks.

[Chris D]

Hey, dude! I use an all-Klipsch setup for my moderately high-end theater. I know nothing about the receiver you have, but there should be NO reason for it to be overloaded. Klipsch speakers by design are very efficient, and require less power for operation than other speakers. Unless you're driving them at ear-splitting levels or something.

Do you know what power rating your receiver has?

[timetohunt]

The 816 is a $300 reveiver (110 per channel, and I no that does not always mean much, but that is what the rating is, very well recieved in reviews). Yes, I turn it up to very loud. It sounds fine then the receiver cuts off (indicating "Overload" on the display"). Almost though the "overload" should have been normal but you say that it is not. ?? I don't know. Trying to find out. Thanks.

[riceaterslc]

i would check to make sure no wire strands are touching. did you get the speakers new? do you have another test reciever to make sure the problem is not within the speakers?

[whoaru99]

i would check to make sure no wire strands are touching. did you get the speakers new? do you have another test reciever to make sure the problem is not within the speakers?

+1...

[timetohunt]

i would check to make sure no wire strands are touching. did you get the speakers new? do you have another test reciever to make sure the problem is not within the speakers?

the speakers are semi-new, they were made in 2006 and were in an audio boutique for the past few months. Knowing the town and store I can't believe they were used very much.

[timetohunt]

Hey, dude! I use an all-Klipsch setup for my moderately high-end theater. I know nothing about the receiver you have, but there should be NO reason for it to be overloaded. Klipsch speakers by design are very efficient, and require less power for operation than other speakers. Unless you're driving them at ear-splitting levels or something.

Do you know what power rating your receiver has?

The Pioneer 816 is 110watts x 7. I am getting another receiever to test.

[Alaric]

I've noticed clean sound can be turned up to very high SPLs without noticing how loud it really is. Probably because the distortion we usually use determine "loud" isn't as prevalent. You may be pushing the amp section to the point of clipping and not know it. Those speakers (nice score!) can handle a lot more juice than that receiver supplies. Do you have the same issues in 2ch and 7.1 ? While a good receiver , it probably isn't putting out the same peak current on all channels in 7 or 5.1 as it does in 2ch mode.
Perhaps a dedicated 2ch amp for audio (using your receiver as a pre) would be one way to go.

[timetohunt]

I've noticed clean sound can be turned up to very high SPLs without noticing how loud it really is. Probably because the distortion we usually use determine "loud" isn't as prevalent. You may be pushing the amp section to the point of clipping and not know it. Those speakers (nice score!) can handle a lot more juice than that receiver supplies. Do you have the same issues in 2ch and 7.1 ? While a good receiver , it probably isn't putting out the same peak current on all channels in 7 or 5.1 as it does in 2ch mode.
Perhaps a dedicated 2ch amp for audio (using your receiver as a pre) would be one way to go.

I think you are right on it as far as what is happening here. I need a dedicated amp for those big RF83s. I have always played my music very loud and don't see that changing. While it already sounds a lot better than what I am used to - my guess is that is will sound very sweet with a good dedicated amp. Any recommendations on the Amp? Thanks.

[Alaric]

I can only refer to amps I have heard. The Rotel RB-1092 is a beast , but that may blow a big hole in your budget and the lack of a dedicated (read:expensive) pre may cost you some of the audio you'd be paying for. I would check around this site and a couple others (the 'Gon) and ebay for options. The older (mid 80s) Nakamichi amps were very good and can be had for pittance now. Depending on your budget , valve amps may be a great choice for Klipsch speakers-tend to damp some of the "brightness" . If you are comfortable with buying used there are a lot of options out there. Only caveat-listen before you buy. You want to hear how it sounds in your setup before you commit. It's worth the wait to audition equipment before you shell out substantial bucks. I personally think speakers are more important than amps , but that doesn't mean amplifiers aren't important to getting the "sound" you enjoy.
Also , "watts per channel" isn't the end-all be-all of amplifier specs. My little integrated (95wpc/25 wpc Class A) purely STOMPS the 150wpc rated amp I got rid of. Much higher SPLs with a lot more clarity.
Finally , do all the acoustic mods to your listening environment you can before you buy equip.. Get the absoloute most you can from your current setup before you "upgrade". No sense hot-rodding a poorly tuned engine....

[JudyLou]

The Klipcsh RF83 is very, very efficient at 100db for 8” bass driver also. It should be ok with a smaller amp – but yes, your amp and DVD player are definably the weak links here. Money may be a problem going for the Rotel – look at the Marantz, starting with the AVR5001 receiver and up. In the mean time – if your amp has bass management select your speakers (all) as small and go for 80hz crossover. Then your sub handles all the bass and lower mids. You might be surprised at the outcome.

Lourens

[whoaru99]

My little integrated (95wpc/25 wpc Class A) purely STOMPS the 150wpc rated amp I got rid of. Much higher SPLs with a lot more clarity.

Hmmm... I don't see how 95wpc can be louder than 150wpc if both are rated honestly and assuming same speakers, etc.

[timetohunt]

The Klipcsh RF83 is very, very efficient at 100db for 8” bass driver also. It should be ok with a smaller amp – but yes, your amp and DVD player are definably the weak links here. Money may be a problem going for the Rotel – look at the Marantz, starting with the AVR5001 receiver and up. In the mean time – if your amp has bass management select your speakers (all) as small and go for 80hz crossover. Then your sub handles all the bass and lower mids. You might be surprised at the outcome.

Lourens

This is an excellent forum. Thanks all for your help. The word efficient is used quite a bit on this thread relative to speakers. While I think I know what you mean, please expand on that. What does 'efficient' mean as regards to speakers. Thanks again folks.

[timetohunt]

The Klipcsh RF83 is very, very efficient at 100db for 8” bass driver also. It should be ok with a smaller amp – but yes, your amp and DVD player are definably the weak links here. Money may be a problem going for the Rotel – look at the Marantz, starting with the AVR5001 receiver and up. In the mean time – if your amp has bass management select your speakers (all) as small and go for 80hz crossover. Then your sub handles all the bass and lower mids. You might be surprised at the outcome.

Lourens

Oh also, what about this Oppodigital universal player I keep hearing about for $150. Anyone ? I know I need to ditch the $70 DVD player I got from Wally-world.

[whoaru99]

This is an excellent forum. Thanks all for your help. The word efficient is used quite a bit on this thread relative to speakers. While I think I know what you mean, please expand on that. What does 'efficient' mean as regards to speakers. Thanks again folks.

Efficiency relates to how much sound/volume the speakers produce from a given input.

The rating for this is typically dB/W/m, although there are some variations to that theme. So, if your speakers are 100dB/W/m, it means they will produce 100dB volume for 1 Watt of input power.

So, the higher your speaker's efficiency, the less power is needed to achieve a given volume level.

Just for comparison sake, if one speaker was 90dB and another was 100dB, the 90dB speaker would require 10 times more input power to achieve the same volume as the 100dB speaker.

You must be playing the system VERY loud to drive that receiver into overload with those speakers.

Does the receiver have adequate ventilation?

Have you checked all the speaker wires at both ends for any loose strands of wire that may be causing a short circuit/bad connection?

Lastly, in the voice of reason, you might want to rethink your listening levels rather than getting a more powerful amp - lest you be unable to enjoy the system at all in a short time. :E

[Alaric]

Hmmm... I don't see how 95wpc can be louder than 150wpc if both are rated honestly and assuming same speakers, etc.

It's the "both rated honestly" part that does it. I suspect the 150wpc was peak and optimistic at best. The 95wpc is likely lowball at RMS. Heck,my little integrated won't even double it's output into 4 ohms-my previous amp would likely have caught fire if asked to drive that load! I just meant to say power ratings aren't necessarily the deciding factor in an amp's performance. Just because an amp claims a particular output rating doesn't mean it controls the speaker equally as well as a better amp with a lesser output claim.
Seriously,my other amp was really bad. It did a perfect impression of a blown speaker.

[Glen B]

Not yet considered is that although the OP's Klipsch speakers are efficient and have high sensitivity, they may be presenting a low enough impedance at certain frequencies to cause his Pioneer receiver to quickly run out of power when driven hard.