A Subwoofer is Essential for Live Music

[bigburner]

Many hi-fi enthusiasts don’t believe in subwoofers. They claim that high quality, integrated bass can only be achieved through substantial floorstanders. For studio recordings they’re probably right, but for live recordings I disagree, and here’s why…

Two weeks ago I went to see Jimmy Barnes in concert (Jimmy is an Australian rocker whose excellent guitarist Johnny Diesel was my primary interest). It was a standing room-only gig so I worked my way into the sweet spot 30 yards from the stage, right behind the mixing desk.

It was a fabulous sound system – plenty of volume but pain free because the high frequencies were handled well. When the band started up the feature of the sound system that struck me most was the kick drum slamming me in the chest. My wife was so disconcerted by this “heart massage” that she moved back for a while before realising that it was safe to stand next to me.

When you listen to live music at home you need to get some slam if you want to get the feel of a live concert. If you watch a lot of concert DVDs, which I do, you need a subwoofer with volume control to obtain that slam.

My sub is a B&W ASW750, active closed-box, 12-inch, 1000 watt device, which is fairly modest compared to many others. It is situated in the middle of my floorstanders, right below my screen, and is the same distance from the sweet spot as my floorstanders. Normally I keep the sub’s volume down to achieve good integration but there are times when the volume goes up to achieve the slam that I want. I just wouldn’t be able to achieve that concert feel without a sub.

[warnerwh]

You're absolutely right. I feel the same way. Without the bass and dynamics music just isn't the same. It used to amaze me how many people would say they didn't care about the low bass. Without it all the music isn't there.

To me large floor standers are the only thing that will do a nice similation of the real thing. I even have subs to help that first octave and a half.

The "feel" of bass and live music is something I've always considered very important. Tonal accuracy, soundstaging etc just can't make the music seem any more than back ground music without the bass and dynamics. It just changes the whole presentation having all the bass in full power. Not the polite bass that so many manufacturers claim is bass.

I suspect alot of people haven't heard how much real true bass makes the sound better. You see so many reviews of speakers that supposedly have bass into the 30's. Well there's bass into the 30's and there's bass into the 30's that sure is alot better than most all the speakers I've heard claim they have bass that low. Even with room gain they sound wimpy to me.

[Jesse111]

I happen to be in the pro-sub camp (even for most studio recordings). While I can certainly appreciate the articulate accuracy of a non sub system, I completely agree that a sub will give an added measure of the "real thing" if set up correctly. It takes work and patience but I can't imagine my system without my dual Velodyne DD 10's now. Richer more realistic sound stage. But if there is the slightest too much bass, either with volume or faulty crossover point for the room, then a sub will hurt the quality not help. While some folks legitimately don't care for subs, I think some folks who don't like subs have never heard them properly integrated.

[warnerwh]

You're right that alot of people haven't heard bass properly done. This is the area most problematic due to the long wave lengths. A few bass traps minimum plus something like the BFD will make all the difference in the world to the sound of one's system.

Unfortunately it's hard for people to understand until they hear it in their own system. I'd read about it over the years but certainly didn't realize what I'd been missing until I added bass traps. Adding the Behringer DEQ 2496 just made it even better than I thought it could be.

[joetama]

A live album that proves you need a sub to listen to live is Phil Collins Serious Hits LIVE....

Go to Another Day In Paradise, play it without the sub listen to the kick drum play it with the sub listen to the kick drum and you will always want to hear live music with a sub....

Maybe this is because I grew up in the PA industry and am used to listening to 16 18" in large front-loaded boxes....

[John Holmes]

I too can see both camps on the issue. If done incorrectly, a sub can cause havoc in sound quality. But boy-o-boy...when it's dialed in just right (or even very close) the rewards are nothing short of breath taking!

[Dean100]

I agree, when set up properly a sub adds to the experience. I have a sealed 15" sub in my system and on music with alot of dynamics it just adds to the pleasure. The key is getting it dialed in right.

[John Holmes]

Welcome to the Guide, Dean100!

[David Meek]

If you've got audible content that plays below the low threshold of your speakers, then yes you do need a sub. If not, why complicate the issue? If you listen to acoustic guitar or light jazz or whatever, you may not need a sub. In my case, with my mains (Aerial Acoustics 7Bs) I have useable sound down to about 35-38 Hz, so I have my sub (Velodyne FSR-15) set to play the content from just above that (blending the speaker's roll-off, you know) down to however low the sub will go - 10-15 Hz.

As Jesse and Dean pointed out, proper integration is the key. Getting the hand-off from speaker to sub sorted out correctly makes for a good sonic experience.

[David Meek]

Welcome Dean! :welcome:

[Burke Strickland]

It could be argued that if a stage performance depends on a sound system to produce its "slam", then you are not really listening to a "live" performance, but rather an "instant replay". :>) The gut-pounding during the show is possibly more of a product of the subwoofer(s) than the drum kit. So a subwoofer probably would be necessary to duplicate this effect at home.

However, a properly dialed-in subwoofer can also significantly enhance the realization during home playback of live acoustical perfomances as well. Having felt the deep pedal tones of pipe organs in European cathedrals, I know the effect is not nearly the same without a subwoofer at home. Ditto for piano or orchestral music where the bass notes go into the lower registers. And pop music such as Eric Clapton's "Unplugged" album, or Holly Cole's "Temptation" is more enjoyable with the sub on as well.

Burke

[moonlightdrive21]

I have the B&W 802 Diamonds as floor standing main speakers. I am about to buy a sub and am struggling with deciding on how to integrate it with my system The subject of this thread indirectly relates to my dilemma, so I hope you don't mind me asking for help here. Here are the two options I am considering:

1) Attach the sub to my Lexicon DC-1 Surround Sound processor, in which case it would be used for movies and concert DVD's, and *NOT* be used for my 2 channel audio listening of CD's. Note that in my two channel setup, I have a Classe preamp and poweramp and don't use my SSP.

2) Integrate the sub into my Classe components so that it is used when I do multi channel DVD's using the SSP and also when I just use my Classe electronics for 2 channel audio.

Which option is best and why?

Thanks so much !!!!!!!!
Dave