How much does a good CD/DVD player matter

[Seeme]

First, I would like to state that I'm looking at this from one point of view... Digital connection only.

Does it really matter how much you spend on a CD player for it's sound quality? If you invested in a really good A/V or Pre-Amp such as a Meridian, Theta, Bryston, Mac, Linn, Mark Lev, Classe or Audio Research and connect the player to the digital input, does it matter? I think in this regards one should only focus on the video quality of the player if it is dubbing as the DVD player as well.

My thought is... if I'm only using the digital out on the CD/DVD player, then the D/A conversion is taking place at the Pre-Amp? Correct?

If I'm not using the DAC's in the player, like a Red Book CD player. Does it really make a difference?

I have been told by several sources that it does, but I just can not believe that. Digital is Digital, and if the CD player is not processing the source then how can it make a difference? Maybe if it had a decent transport but what else could make a inpact on the sound?

I can see if I got a really good Red Book CD player... such as a Audio Aero, Wadia, Audio Research and went from the CD's player analog output to a A/V or Pre-Amp bypass, then I would reap the benifits of the player.

I wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts out this matter.

Thanks

[Victor]

Seeme,

In a nutshell you are absolutely correct in your assertions.

I would not use a really cheap player for the fear of mechanical failure of the transport mechanism. However, any player today from a reputable company will give you the same quality digital bit stream as any other player regardless of the cost.

For more money you get more options, but not better sound, particularly if you are using digital output port.

Most companies do not do even an adequate job as far as the output digital circuit is concerned and you can expect signal reflection, but keep in mind that as long as your cabling is not too long, those problems will not amount to anything objectionable. Ideally you want to make sure that 75 Ohm interface is maintained throughout, but as far as I know this is only possible if you go the DIY route.

regards,
Victor

[fauzigarib]

Seeme,

You're right that digital output is the same across players.

Of course, I tried bragging to someone about my Denon DVD player... Didn't get teh same result as if I had bragged about my Levinson Cd player!!! :twisted:

-Fauzi

[greenjudas]

I was using a Harman Kardon dvd player in my 5.1 setup for a couple of years and was quite happy with it until I bought a projector and needed a player with progressive scan.So the H/K was sold and I bought a more recent Yamaha.The Yammie is certainly not top of the range and my main concern was the possible loss of sound quality by going to a cheaper player.
I had friend over one day who knows my system quite well and I played a couple of music dvd's that we were both familiar with.Before this,I was still getting the projector set up correctly and hadn't really sat down and listened[more looking than listening].It only took a couple of songs and he noticed how much better it sounded and this was at moderate volume as he was there mainly to check out new projector.I turned it up a bit and there was no harshness that was there before.A smile came to my face but I thought I had better try another that once again,tended to get annoying.Well again,not only did it sound smoother but seemed to be a beefier,bigger sound.
So in this case,there was a noticeable difference in SQ and I was using same digital coax as before.

[kurtholz]

try the Arcam dv29, i am very happy with it's performance, the dvd-a performance is top notch, try using a Benchmark dac for the digital connection, very nice improvement,but cables make a huge difference,

Kurt

[soundhound]

Under normal conditions the CD transport will retrieve an exact copy of the digital data used to create it (think CDROMs - computers won't tolerate a "close approximation" of the original data). The CD contains a large amount of redundant data in the form of Error Correcting Codes (ECC).

Data is not read from the CD in a linear fashion like a record groove. The data is stored along and read in in blocks. Each block is protected by ECC code and contains subcode (including timecode - this displys in the transport time window).

Also the laser doesn't translate individual pits into bits. Instead pit patterns, called symbols, translate into bit patterns. These pit patterns are designed to be easy for the photodector to read. Finally the blocks of data are not recorded linearly but are reordered and spacially seperated from each other on the disk. This reduces the likelyhood of a scratch rendering the disk unusable.

The transport reassembles the data blocks in the correct order and uses the ECC codes with a mathematical algorithm to detect and correct all single symbol read errors and detect almost all multiple symbol read errors.

For multiple symbol errors the player may resort to error concealment, where it generates some best fit data to fill the gap. Worst case it mutes the output momentarily (a skip). Multi-symbol read errors are extremely rare on disks in reasonable condition.

The biggest issue with transports seems to be clocking accuracy of the output datastream. With proper engineering this can be almost independent of the physical reading of the disk. The transport can read ahead of the actual listening point, buffer the data in memory, and clock it out at a highly accurate rate.

Good eye pattern helps the accuracy of symbol reading and reduces the need for error correction.

And thus the “differences in transports”.

The science of it explained by a gentleman elswhere.

[AptosJeff]

soundhound,
Thanks for the post. Do you have a link to this "gentlemen elswhere"?

[soundhound]

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1155157759&openflup&4&4#4

[Russ L]

Try This: I found this to be a good article on transport induced and other types of jitter called "The Digital Enemy". Points out that Digital is not the perfect carrier of audio. Easy to understand for those new to audio like myself -Russ

[Seeme]

Thanks to all that posted replies. I have being doing some additional research and it seems that Jitter reducetion is where most good digital players are putting their focus. Like the Meridain 808, Theta and others. Thanks soundhound for that great info as it appears now that.. not all digital info is made equal.