Sub auditions, best method ?

[bleeding ears]

Hi, just wondering how most of you would or have auditioned subwoofers?

Do you listen to the subwoofer with all other speakers off or do you listen to the sub with the other speakers on to see how it integrates?

Should the store not have the subwoofer levels, phase, etc not set to their optimum (and few seem to) it is going to give the impression of poor sound or bad integration with the other speakers. consequently the audition would be a waste of time.

Pehaps going off reviews and specs is the best method?

Anyone have a good method or idea for auditions?

Any recommendations?

[Chris D]

First, I look at the specs, and if the company has it, then the chart of db vs frequency for a given tone. Ideally, you want a flat response, not one that highlights certain frequencies.

Then I'll make my choice, bring it home. Set it up, calibrate it, and then listen to reference material with other speakers playing. I wouldn't EQ it, but doing my own frequency sweep helps identify the sub's strengths and weak points.

To be honest, I don't feel that a showroom audition is going to do very much for you, as you have NO idea how they have it calibrated. Probably not EQ'd at all, and I have yet to find somebody with an actual listening room at home that is anywhere close to a showroom's characteristics. (either good or bad)

So yes, I would personally rely on specs, reviews, and if you trust them, the manufacturer's recommendations. (SVS)

[Danbry39]

Just adding to what Chris said...

Most the showrooms I've visited had them callibrated horribly. They seem to go for wallop-in-the stomach sound. Loudest in a showroom doesn't mean best. Still, you could listen for a couple of things. First, does it play notes, as opposed to muddled thump, thump, thumps. Secondly, how crisp are the sounds coming out of the sub? Do they come in and out sharply or do they tale off in a muddled fade.

If I were you, I'd also take in my own demo disc so that you're well familiar with how it should sound. I have no clue as to whether this is true in all cases or not, but, in my experience, I've found that a sub that plays music well also plays movies well, but the inverse isn't always true.

Finally, many of the online direct-to-consumer companies (think ACI, SVS, Hsu, Adire, Rocket) are said to have much more product for the money. Some of them also try to help you with auditioning with an owner in your area who would be much more likely to have properly callibrated the sub with the rest of the system.

[bleeding ears]

Thanks guys, I would definitely be looking for a musical sub rather than a boomy home theatre only sub.

From my experience with other gear,the specs dont seem to mean much.

With some gear where the specs on paper seem quite poor they actually turn out to be better sounding units, probably because the maufactuer is honest in their figures, whilst the ones with excellent specs quite often perform poorly.

Of course this is a generalisation, but it seems that specs can range from honest yet comparatively low, to outright lies.

Perhaps a lot of research and reading user reviews is a good start, but first I need to know what size sub is needed?

For a medium to large combined lounge, rumpus, kitchen area would say a 10 incher do?

thanks Pete

[ThomasW]

Perhaps a lot of research and reading user reviews is a good start, but first I need to know what size sub is needed?

For a medium to large combined lounge, rumpus, kitchen area would say a 10 incher do?

Aah nope think 15". You can always turn down a larger sub. You can't do much with a small sub if you hit the excursion limits.

We'll dispell the small woofer = fast bass nonsense right out of the gate since it's bunk. The key to good bass is acceleration. Given a large enough motor, I can accelerate a man-hole-cover as 'fast' as a 8" or 10" woofer....:wink:

What's subs are available to you in Oz?

[bleeding ears]

Thomas, 15 incher you say, is that for ht or music or both?

The reason I ask is that I see some manufacturers go with smaller drivers for music, eg triangle with a 2 x 8 inch design, which they reckon is very musical.

Why would they do this? any advantages/disadvantages with an 2 x 8 inch sub over say a 15 incher.

I could be wrong but I dont think Velodyne or Rel make anything like the triangle?

While we are talking about it, which 15 incher do you recommend?

Pete

[ThomasW]

To reproduce low frequencies it's all about moving air, lots of air. There are a couple of ways to do that, one large driver or a ton of small ones. Some of the more exotic larger drivers displace 4, 5, 6 liters of air....

IMO 2-8" drivers make a woofer not a sub woofer. Rel makes nice subs, if you don't listen to anything except chamber music at a modest spl.

While we are talking about it, which 15 incher do you recommend?

I started making sub in the late 1970's and have never owned a commercially built unit. I can certainly give you a list of good 15"s. Very few will be available in Oz.

If your plan is to buy something prebuilt then post a list of who's subs are available to you.

If you want to build a sub (actually pretty easy,) you get a SoundSplinter Rl-p15 (they ship to Oz) and put it in a 3 cu ft sealed box.

[bleeding ears]

Thomas, the brands available in Oz are Velodyne, Paradigm, Energy, Mirage and many others brands that are made in Oz such as Whatmough/Whise,
Richter, and I think Krix may still be selling them as well (they have done cinema installations)

In your opinion would a sound splinter perform as well as a Velodyne of similar size? and would it work out any cheaper?

This new digital drive thingy seems to be killing the opposition, if you can believe the editorial reviews.

Pete

[Chris D]

IMO 2-8" drivers make a woofer not a sub woofer.

[wkhanna]

ThomasW's Signiture:

Lindberg flew from New York to Paris without a radio, now days people can't walk through the produce section without a cell phone".... Garrison Keillor

Ha!!

I saw the show on PBS last night. What a classic (so typically Keillor).

BTW, I sitll don't own a cell phone.

[ThomasW]

In your opinion would a sound splinter perform as well as a Velodyne of similar size? and would it work out any cheaper?

Not really sure depending on what you'd pay to get the driver delivered. In addition you'd need an amp and some form of EQ.

Current there isn't a great selection of high performance drivers available to the DIYer's in Oz. The shipping weight of the RL-p15 is around 45-50lbs.

We usually recommend a fan cooled pro-sound amp like the Behringer EP1500/2500. The fan on these are a bit loud, but can be tamed with resistors and or the use of a lower dB computer fan.

You do have a couple excellent 'local' DIY resources in the form of Bob Collison or William Cowan if you're inclined to go the DIY route.

In the commercial world the larger Velo's are pretty good. I would imagine they're pretty pricey in Oz

The Whise Profunders used to get a lot of press from the likes of Tom Vodhanel of SVS. I just looked at the Krix website. Nothing special, looks like standard prosound drivers being used for everything. They play loud but not low.

I've always been of the option that commercially build subs were a rip-off given the cost of components compared to what you get.

Even if you're not a DIYer; my guess is that given a good driver or two, you could get a local cabinet maker to whip up a nice box, and come out with a better sub than what you'd pay for a commercially built unit.

[Spearmint]

Both HSU & SVS are available now in Oz as well.

[alebonau]

Hi, just wondering how most of you would or have auditioned subwoofers?

Do you listen to the subwoofer with all other speakers off or do you listen to the sub with the other speakers on to see how it integrates?

Should the store not have the subwoofer levels, phase, etc not set to their optimum (and few seem to) it is going to give the impression of poor sound or bad integration with the other speakers. consequently the audition would be a waste of time.

Pehaps going off reviews and specs is the best method?

Anyone have a good method or idea for auditions?

Any recommendations?

I dont beleive a budget has been mentioned any place.

Havign jsut gone through the sub buyign process. I think its very hard darn near impossible to demo a sub at any retail premises. Not too many take much effort at all to properly setup. and those that do are setting up in a different room and system to yours so any conclusions you might come to might not be applicable to yoru setup.

As far as demoing goes I did demoing for both HT(movies and music) and music(2ch) as that being the intended use. Best I coudl do demo wise was sjut listen to subs in dealerrs setups and buy what to me seemed to give the best performance going on the basis that it can do a reasonable job in store I might have a chance in hell of getting the same at home. Other thing I did was do a lot of research and talk to many people and in the end went with what seemed ot me the best sub around for the money.

As far as subs go. Small drivers can go very low. But you probably just wont get the same spl as using a bigger driver. That said I've used multiple drivers myself for car audio, as in 2 x 8s instead of a 10 for instance to good effect.

As far as specific subs. I too was dissapointed in the rel stadiums performace myself for ht. But have heard it do a good job for music few years back in a different system. So still a bit of an unknown quantity to me. I think maybe theyre more designed to run a very low freq as in 30-34hz and below unlike how you would use yoru typical ht sub as high as 80hz or below.

Thers probably many awesome subs out there, have been impressed with both the ht and music capabilities of my velo DD15. I think its a very good option for someone lookign for an off the shelf solution. And Honestly think you'd need to go somethign serious custom or IB to better it.