Hi-res music - Would it not have been nice.

[Kobus]

Would it not have been nice if hi-res music could have been played over the front three channels only.

Why I say this is that most of us have 3 paired speakers in front with lessor speakers in the rear. Also very secondarly, there are some that does not want music to come from the rear. Also space in the rear for large matching floorstanders can be an issue for some.

I say this not knowing too much about sacd / dvd-a.

ps. is the cd layer on these disks normal resolution or high resolution.

Kobus

[ShadowZA]

Kobus, I feel similar ... in that (idealistically) what I'd like to hear are high-res stereo audio tracks instead of high-res multi-channel tracks. High res stereo audio tracks (192kHz/24bit on DVD-Audio) are available. See this site: http://www.aixrecords.com/
I've placed an order with them. Already received 2 discs + a sampler (2 weeks ago) with another disc on back order. Totally superb is how I would describe AIX's recordings.

The thing is that multi-channel audio can be mind blowing if done right. But then, your rear channel speakers and amplification cannot be shabby. This is a reason that I've kept my N804's for rear duty. Still have to upgrade my rear amplification though.

[DrJRapp]

I believe there is still much that many of us have never heard on our good old 2 channel redbook CDs. I say this after purchasing a Benchmark DAC1 and some high end cables and finding out what I've been missing all these years.

[Bob]

I think that you would find that the use of three front speakers would actually not have the illusion of imaging and depth that stereo has.
In fact, I beleive it was tried back in the late 50's or early 60's. So much of my memory was distorted during my years touring that I may be mistaken about this.

[Chris D]

I think you're right, Dr. Jerry... on very good equipment, it's amazing the details that you hear in the same music you've been listening to for years. (it's the same way with movies--amazing what you can hear that was hidden for years) What are you using for your CD player for critical listening? Ever get that Cambridge Audio piece?

[Kal Rubinson]

Would it not have been nice if hi-res music could have been played over the front three channels only.

Try the Mercury LP and RCA LS SACDs. They are 3 channel.

Why I say this is that most of us have 3 paired speakers in front with lessor speakers in the rear. Also very secondarly, there are some that does not want music to come from the rear. Also space in the rear for large matching floorstanders can be an issue for some.

But music DOES come from the rear in the form of reverberation, echo and ambience in all real music performance situations.

I say this not knowing too much about sacd / dvd-a.

Apparently.

ps. is the cd layer on these disks normal resolution or high resolution.

Any CD layer, by definition, is normal resolution.

Kal

[aud19]

Would it not have been nice if hi-res music could have been played over the front three channels only.

Why I say this is that most of us have 3 paired speakers in front with lessor speakers in the rear. Also very secondarly, there are some that does not want music to come from the rear. Also space in the rear for large matching floorstanders can be an issue for some.
Kobus

Speak for yourself! : :lol: I've got floorstanders in the rear and THOROUGHLY enjoy good 5.1 mixes of music Some mixes are a little flaky (Neil Young's Harvest comes to mind... accurate as to how it was recorded or not, it's bloody distracting to listen to) but in that case 99% have an alternate stereo track to listen to anyways (as does Harvest).

[Ovation]

Stereo was originally conceived as THREE channels, not two. It was downmixed to two channels because of playback limitations on vinyl in the 50s. As to those who don't want music from the "back", as Kal has pointed out, there is ALWAYS music from the "back".

Another common complaint is that it it "unnatural" to have instruments behind you. Not to the people in the band, it isn't. Besides, any music conceived of and for the studio environment (as opposed to the orchestral environment of a symphony--though even then the players are in the midst of the instruments) has no "natural" orientation anyway--particularly with 24 track recording and overdubbing. I love listening to the early Elton John reissues in MCH SACD and "sit" in the band.

Are there dinky and hokey "super-surround" whiz-bang effects on some releases that we can do without? Sure. But the early days of stereo were like that too until things settled down a bit. Don't knock "in the band" mixes without a few listening sessions. All great tastes, in my opinion, have been acquired ones.

[Kal Rubinson]

Speak for yourself! : :lol: I've got floorstanders in the rear and THOROUGHLY enjoy good 5.1 mixes of music Some mixes are a little flaky (Neil Young's Harvest comes to mind... accurate as to how it was recorded or not, it's bloody distracting to listen to) but in that case 99% have an alternate stereo track to listen to anyways (as does Harvest).

Yup. Finally (TODAY!!!) got my big MCH system set up with 3 N802Ds in front and a pair of N804Ss in the rear and, boy, is that nice! Later this week, the sub goes in but, so far, I ain't missing it.

Of course, it's the size and space of the sound, not phony effects that are most impressive and enjoyable.

Kal

[Burke Strickland]

Another common complaint is that it it "unnatural" to have instruments behind you. Not to the people in the band, it isn't.

I'll bet that most of us who prefer live music to any recorded media do not sit in the middle of the band at concerts or at clubs. I played in bands during my school years and still prefer to listen from the audience's vantage.

So recreating the listening experience with instruments distributed all around usually IS "unnatural" sounding. It is especially annoying to see the performers all up front on video, yet hear their instruments coming from all around. This applies to more than just classical recordings.

The major exceptions, of course, are performances of music that was INTENDED to be played "in the round". Gabrieli's antiphonal music comes to mind as a prominent example. Pink Floyd's "Dark Side Of The Moon" also sounds "right" coming from all around.

But The Eagles: Hell Freezes Over is an example of self-indulgent "see what we can do" engineering that screws up the listening experience by spreading the instruments all around when the performers are clearly all postioned up front on stage in the video.

Of course, it's the size and space of the sound, not phony effects that are most impressive and enjoyable.

Couldn't agree more.

Burke

[jonathanb3478]

But The Eagles: Hell Freezes Over is an example of self-indulgent "see what we can do" engineering that screws up the listening experience by spreading the instruments all around when the performers are clearly all postioned up front on stage in the video.

Glad I do not have a m-ch version of that with video, so I never realized how "screwed up" it is. (second favorite album in my m-ch collection)

I do not know how it could ever be allowed for the instrament to be mixed somewhere else, when the video clearly shows the performer in front of you. That is pretty bad.

Now, there is no audience in a studio, and I feel maintaining a "front stage" in that environment is just as "fake" as any other way the artist wishes to present the music. I like Linkin Park's Reanimation on DVD-A becuase I can take it as it was intended, a spectacle - not a "reality simulator".

[Ovation]

Yup. Finally (TODAY!!!) got my big MCH system set up with 3 N802Ds in front and a pair of N804Ss in the rear and, boy, is that nice! Later this week, the sub goes in but, so far, I ain't missing it.

Of course, it's the size and space of the sound, not phony effects that are most impressive and enjoyable.

Kal

The Revels are gone? Or have they moved to the country? (Don't worry, I'm not a stalker, I read your column regularly over at Stereophile.)

I agree that phony effects are not the prime selling points for MCH audio (or shouldn't be) but I'm not opposed to some "experimentation" either.

[Kal Rubinson]

The Revels are gone? Or have they moved to the country? (Don't worry, I'm not a stalker, I read your column regularly over at Stereophile.)

Gone but not forgotten. Just too much stuff to keep in the apartment and I cannot fit such large speakers into the country house.

I agree that phony effects are not the prime selling points for MCH audio (or shouldn't be) but I'm not opposed to some "experimentation" either.

Same here. Sometimes, it works.

Kal

[DrJRapp]

I think you're right, Dr. Jerry... on very good equipment, it's amazing the details that you hear in the same music you've been listening to for years. (it's the same way with movies--amazing what you can hear that was hidden for years) What are you using for your CD player for critical listening? Ever get that Cambridge Audio piece?

Nope, the CA 840C has been delayed, so I decided not to wait. I've obtained a Benchmark DAC1 which I am sourcing with my Denon 2900 thru an optical glass toslink cable. I'm trying to find a better sounding, reasonably priced, transport than the Denon, so far without success. I've got some high end XLR cables taking the output of the DAC1 to the 2 channel balanced bypass input on my Statement D2. The sound of the DAC1 is truely amazing. I haven't heard anything I like better except an Esoteric X3 that I heard during a speaker demo last year. The DAC1 gives life to CDs that I never imagined existed.

My dedicated 2 channel system has been laying idle for a few weeks now because now 2 channels thru my theater system sounds better. I may actually sell it all off.

[Ovation]

I'll bet that most of us who prefer live music to any recorded media do not sit in the middle of the band at concerts or at clubs. I played in bands during my school years and still prefer to listen from the audience's vantage.

So recreating the listening experience with instruments distributed all around usually IS "unnatural" sounding. It is especially annoying to see the performers all up front on video, yet hear their instruments coming from all around. This applies to more than just classical recordings.

Well, I do think for concert videos, it can be a bit unnerving, depending on the mix, though you yourself have noted exceptions. Moreover, I frequently put the music on and turn off the video--so I'm not as disoriented by the lack of visual/audio continuity. But I'm probably just a weirdo.

The major exceptions, of course, are performances of music that was INTENDED to be played "in the round". Gabrieli's antiphonal music comes to mind as a prominent example. Pink Floyd's "Dark Side Of The Moon" also sounds "right" coming from all around.

To this I would add ELP's Brain Salad Surgery, Yes' Fragile and (if they ever get around to releasing them) the MCH mixes of Genesis' albums.

But The Eagles: Hell Freezes Over is an example of self-indulgent "see what we can do" engineering that screws up the listening experience by spreading the instruments all around when the performers are clearly all postioned up front on stage in the video.

I have that DVD and it didn't bother me, but I concede it could easily bother others. My chief point was aimed at "studio" performances, rather than live performances. As jonathanb3478 points out, "there is no audience in a studio, and I feel maintaining a "front stage" in that environment is just as "fake" as any other way the artist wishes to present the music." I don't find my REM DVD-As or my Fleetwood Mac DVD-As or my Elton John SACDs "disorienting" in that respect. And when I do want an "audience" perspective, the stereo mixes are available to me (there is one song on the latest Fleetwood Mac DVD-A that I prefer in 2 channel). It's all a matter of taste and preference, of course. I just think "in-studio" performances can be as enjoyable "in the band" as sitting back in the audience. But, live and let live, I say. As long as you're enjoying the tunes. :T

[aud19]

I agree that phony effects are not the prime selling points for MCH audio (or shouldn't be) but I'm not opposed to some "experimentation" either.

I agree :yesnod: One mix that I didn't think I'd like was the Beach Boys Pet Sounds MCH mix. But I tell you after listening to it a couple times in surround it's just amazing with their sweet voices seemingly floating and swirling around you...it's particularly magical with the a capella tracks at the end 8O :P :T