Subwoofer needed with full range speakers?

[alebonau]

I shouldn't have watched that velodyne video ! Ended up getting the DD15

[bleeding ears]

You are kidding, that box is big enough to fit a washing machine inside.

Is that the monster with a lamp sitting on top? Wow, I bet the neighbours love it ! :lol:

Great stuff, let us know how it goes, Im very interested to know how it sounds with music cd and what fronts are you using?

Pete

[alebonau]

hehehe photography can be quite deceiving, its a lot smaller than it appears. Quite a lounge room friendly thing I must say. Wife likes the look of it says it can stay !

My mains are the mission 753s. I've only got it setup for ht/movies at the moment. Will need to route a line output off my 2ch power amp to work off the xover on the avr to use on CD. When I've done that and tried it I'll post back.

Having a ball playing around with the eq side of things that comes with the DD. Gettign reponse plots of the sub in my room, my mains, and the combined response. Pretty neat too the auto eq it does - gives a pretty reasonable result with bass down to 15hz in my room. Haven't really gone into any tweaking as yet, plenty to still muck around with.

Watched harry potter and the goblet of fire tonight. Boy ch25 is a beauty when he meets up with waldermort plenty of low bass energy there !

I have the setup pretty subtle on the bass side so never had probs with neighbours and not likely too.

[norpus]

And I must say it looks and sounds great at your place alebonau
A very attractive unit (not that big) and punches well above its size
I love the sms1 tweaks on the screen too

PS your cat looks happier than mine, but mine is trying hard :lol:

[norpus]

I prefer sealed subs for their smaller (hence more rigid) enclosures, lower group delay and inherent protection from overload when driven well below Fs (unlike a ported design). Sealed main speakers integrate much better with a sub too.

You really shouldn't expect to be hearing much from your sub if your mains are floor standers. There is little information below 30Hz (music), and also remember that if the hearing threshold at 20Hz is 80dB, then if you listen to your mains or sub independently, you may be below that threshold, but together their combined output WILL be audible.

As for this talk of huge 15" subs with a 2 inch Xmax, I think if you value your hearing, neighbours & sanity, and are past the age of trying to impress your friends, give them a miss. Mounted close to the floor, especially in a corner 2 x decent 10" or 12" subs should be plenty for a normal living room, and your wife will appreciate it too

I recently bought some nice new mains, and thought didn't really need much help in the bass department (B&W802d) as they sound pretty rich all over

However on the weekend, we tried a small active crossover on my 2ch rig to slip in the IB subwoofer (2x 18" Avalanches). Yes the sub can go loud for HT if wanted, but for 2ch the sub is there for low distortion augmentation of the bottom end, flat to well below 20Hz.

General consensus of the group of enthusiasts present was the sub added to the experience and helped the mains soar that little bit higher/richer. Crossover was limited to 60Hz. Will certainly be adding a more permanent crossover solution (Behringer CX2310) soon (will be able to play with crossover a bit more) and yes the sub will be staying added to my 2ch. It sounds gorgeous and full with that solid bass underpinning the floor. My 2c

[alebonau]

thank you norpus for the kind words.

For anyone interested I finally hooked up the DD for 2ch use, below is the simple method I used, as I posted on the aussie forum, might be of interst to someone else trying to integrate their Subs & dedicated 2ch and have a combined HT & dedicated 2ch systems..

If you have a quality sub and want to give it a go integrating with your dedicated 2ch gear, I've found a very simple way and it works very well. All the cost involved is for one stereo RCA. This option would suit those that are happy with the way their mains sound with 2ch and just want to add a sub to extend their mains response by adding a bit of low end reinforcement.

It involves running a stereo RCA from a 2ch variable pre-out from a 2ch integrated, pre or pwr amp to an avr and using an input on that to run xover and level for sub.

For myself all I've done is run one stereo rca from my mf pwr amp rca output(this is provided for bi-amping/daisy chaining and hence equivalent to a variable pre-out) to line input on my avr. Set that line input up for just stereo and sub. Set the xover setting for the sub (either at the sub or at the avr). Ofcourse with the mf pre selected to cd thats driving the mains. Just firing up the avr now and cranking up the vol on that adjusts the amount of sub you want. With that can get to blend well with the mains the whole thing works together with jsut one vol knob the one on the 2ch pre.

If you have a 2ch integrated it would just involve runnign a stereo RCA from the pre-out terminals on the back of your 2ch integrated to an input on your avr. For this setup to work it is essential you use a variable pre-out from either your pre, integrated or pwr amp as with any other full line level output this jsut wont work.

I found can get a very solid bass response that goes nice and low. Ive noticed if I boost the sub too much it becomes localised but keeping it at a nice blend it seems to work pretty well extending the mains response.

I cannot belive how simple this is. See this is an extremely easy simple way of integrating a sub into 2ch.

beauty with this setup is the top end and midrange remains untouched and working as it is with nothign in the 2ch signal path and the sub is jsut for extension. On the down side you can't cut the freq over which the mains operate. if you want to do that you'd need to stick an active xover into circuit.

What I like with this setup as it has left the way my mains sound(voicing) un altered and the sub just adds some nice punch and low end extension. The topic of this thread was "Subwoofer needed with full range speakers?" well not sure I can answer that with my postings as never had a full range speaker to start with. But did like the way my mains sounded and adding the sub now probably gets me as close to having a full range mains as I ever will be.

What I can heartily suggest to anyone trying to answer this question, one thing that really helped me was to do an inroom plot of my mains response on its own, a plot of my subs response on its own and then a combined system response. Will soon tell you what your mains are really doing, what your subs is doing and help you to setup the sub(xover, phase, eq, levels etc) to end up with a full range system response that appeals.

[Renfin]

sub intergration

Just came across this old thread.......
I wanting to intergrate my velodyne spl1200 for 2ch but need further clarification.
I running MF A5 pre, MF A5.5CD, elektra theatre amp, yamaha rxv 2700 avr and Dali Ikon 7 spreakers.
I got the above connected in a standard config, utilising the ht bypass on the pre.
How do I connected this back to the avr to control the sub?? Please Help

[Hammie]

I started off with using my SVS sub with my B&W 804s's. I had to use the 'Stereo' mode in order to activate my sub. This setting enabled the Audyssey setting of my Denon receiver. I wasn't completely happy with sound, so I tried the 'Direct' mode. This enables my 804's as full range without any Audyssey settings. I have been far more pleased with the sound.