IPOD's and CD storage systems

[aud19]

Both my sources use good cables. My sound card shouldn't effect it that much being that it's a pass-thru digital signal.

I think that may be an oversight. Depending on how well the card does at sending that signal out could be making the difference. I'd say the DAC1 would be a good addition :yesnod:

[audioqueso]

I think that may be an oversight. Depending on how well the card does at sending that signal out could be making the difference...

Well, that would be a bit nitpicking, wouldn't you say so? The difference in the output from an optical output (assuming the heads of the fiber are clean) would be so minimal to our ears that even with our high end toys we would not be able to hear that much of a difference. Regardless, I understand what you mean.

Well, I did rip a few tracks from one of my favorite CDs last night as just a wave file and then played those tracks against the actual CD from the computer. The census was right, and I was not able to hear any real difference. However, I then listen to the wave files and compared then to my Pioneer (both using optical output). I still found that the computer compared to the Pioneer sounded inferior, but the difference was not as big as when I use the Pioneer's analog output. But with that said, I'm interested in seeing if buying a separate DAC would really put my computer in par with the actual CDs. That would be benefitial since all my CDs are already on the computer. I would have to rip them all again since they're all compressed right now, but it sounds like this setup might be worth it.

[Kevin D]

5*300Gb!! Holy cow! I'd be satisfied with only one 300Gb drive: a McIntosh MS300 :T

Shhhhh... http://www.escient.com/products/e2.html.... The Mac piece is the same thing with a new front case and a Mcintised GUI... You wold be throwing a lot of money away just to get a green GUI...

Kevin D.

[aud19]

Heck you'd be throwing a lot of money away on that Escient too! You know how much those things cost for something less flexible than PC!?!?!... Has that pretty GUI though :roll:

[ajpoe]

audioqueso, I would make certain that you're soundcard is outputing at 44.1 KHz instead of 48 KHz too. That was something I overlooked for a while and it made a big difference. That could also help explain why the CD optical would sound better than the soundcard optical.

[bigburner]

I would make certain that you're soundcard is outputing at 44.1 KHz instead of 48 KHz too. That was something I overlooked for a while and it made a big difference.

Would you please explain why it made a big difference.

[ajpoe]

CDs are 44.1 KHz. If you are outputting 48 KHz then the audio is being resampled. The resampling is most likely being done by windows kmixer which has adverse affects on the sound of the stream.

[aud19]

Yes, BIG difference!!!

Audioqueso, are you using a Creative card? They all upsample CD's using Windows Kmixer which has a VERY detrimental effect on sound quality. I'd resommend a card from the likes of M-Audio or Lynx etc with or without a DAC1 if that's the case!

[PewterTA]

Yes, you should buy a new sound card, because Creative would never let you go into the options and switch it from 48 to 44.1 in a matter of 2 seconds. :roll:

If you have a Creative Audigy 2ZS or the new 4s...your sound card is a phenominal one and there's no need to change it.

[aud19]

I was not aware you could change it on the new cards. Last I heard it was an inherant "feature". If that's the case then turn it off ASAP

[NewBuyer]

Some soundcards that can output 44.1khz are actually first resampling to 48khz and then back again to 44.1khz, according to AC97 spec. Since this involves two resamplings instead of one, it is even worse!

Also, my understanding is that the Windows kmixer will still destroy bit-perfect digital output and playback, even with a better soundcard that can sample natively at 44.1khz. In order to get true bit-perfect 44.1 playback you first need a soundcard that can natively sample at 44.1khz, secondly you need the soundcard to be able to support either kernel-streaming or ASIO playback (in order to dodge the Windows kmixer), and thirdly you need a player software that supports the kernel-streaming or ASIO playback modes.

Even then it can be difficult to get bit-perfect digital output. For instance, my Terratec 6fire LT natively samples 44.1khz and also supports ASIO, and Winamp has an ASIO plugin... but I still cannot get this combo to output ASIO through the optical output of the soundcard...

[gross30]

Very interesting disscusion. I use (2) Pioneer Elite PDF-19, and (2) Pioneer Elite DV-F09 as jukeboxes, along w/300 extra cd's on the side. It is a 1200 cd jukebox basically and the only recording I do is non-compressed through a Yamaha CDRS-1000. The sound quality is excellant, but I.M.O.O. compressed music storage is going to be in my future. It is only a matter of time before you will be able to record entire music librarys on devices that fit in your pocket with the quality and clarity of an original recording. I'll wait out all first generation devices as I am sure there will be some great surprises coming in the near future.

[bigburner]

OK, I obviously need some serious help here to save me from inferior sound quality. For my non-serious listening (parties, background music etc) this is what I do...

I rip tracks from my CDs into MP3 format at 320 kbps on my laptop using iTunes. I play those tracks back using iTunes on my laptop which is connected to my preamp via a Creative Sound Blaster USB soundcard and RCA cables.

So what would you guys recommend I do, using a solution that:

(a) keeps the laptop ('cos if I had heaps of dough to spare it would go on a new CD player or speakers)

and

(b) retains some form of compression ('cos I've already got 3,700 tracks and there's heaps more to go)?

I think the budget could stretch to a new soundcard if necessary!

Thank you.

PS The strange thing is that it actually sounds pretty good...

[audioqueso]

Maannnnn, just forget about it all... lol.. too much involvement for a jukebox. lol Even if I did it perfect, I still can not see myself doing my serious listening to a computer source. I think I'll keep my Hercules 48k optical output card and keep my current mp3 CDs and continue to use it for around-the-house music.

I'm sure it would sound a lot better if I perfected it. But to do that I need $75 for an M-Audio Revolution soundcard to give me a true 44.1k output (ASIO), and one or two $240 400GB harddrive (Seagate Barracuda), AND the time to rip all my CDs again. So it would take up some time and money. But at the same time, I also need to work on making a ASIO plug-in for Meedio (my music server front-end), so there's no point until I complete that.

[audioqueso]

This thread went from iPod to detailed instructions on how to make a perfect quality jukebox. This is a good thread. :B

[ajpoe]

audioqueso, i am using the maddog entertainer 7.1 which i believe is made by hercules. there are updated drivers for the Envy chiped cards so you can select 44.1 KHz output in the audio control panel.



I have not read anything about the resampling issue that NewBuyer described with these cards/drivers... i'd give it a try as it was as simple as installing a new exe file. The drivers I use are located here so you can see if one of them fit the description for your card. I use them instead of the updated drivers on the MadDog/Hercules website. BTW, for anyone else reading, my MadDog card was only about $50-60 at CompUSA but can be had for less online so it's not an expensive investment.

BigBurner. You could use your laptop and that soundcard. I would get a 250 GB hard drive (or bigger) and an external enclosure kit and make your own external HDD. I find that you can save money by going this route over just buying and external HDD and its easy to do. I have over 7600 songs in Monkey's audio format and I believe I'm only using about 200 GB if that. Since I am using an HTPC, I keep my music on an internal 250 GB drive and just use my external as a backup.

[bigburner]

You could use your laptop and that soundcard. I would get a 250 GB hard drive (or bigger) and an external enclosure kit and make your own external HDD. I find that you can save money by going this route over just buying and external HDD and its easy to do. I have over 7600 songs in Monkey's audio format and I believe I'm only using about 200 GB if that. Since I am using an HTPC, I keep my music on an internal 250 GB drive and just use my external as a backup.

Thanks ajpoe. I already have a 200 GB external USB HDD that I use to back up my laptop and the other PCs in my house.

What I need to know is whether there are some improvements I can make to my current setup without spending a fortune, e.g. a better compressed format than MP3 at 320 kbps, or a better MP3 ripper than iTunes, or a better soundcard than the Creative Sound Blaster that can natively sample at 44.1khz and avoid the dreaded Windows kmixer.

[ajpoe]

I'd say that your laptop and soundcard are fine. I think the majority will agree that the best ripper out there is EAC (Exact Audio Copy). Any lossless compression is going to be better than MP3 because it lossless vs. lossy. Whether you can hear the difference is up to you. EAC can rip to several formats and can be set up to use external compression. I use the latest version Monkey's Audio external compression. It is lossless and I can convert back to the original wav file if needed. I have never used iTunes for ripping or playback. J. River Media Center has extensive Monkey's Audio support and I still use EAC for ripping.

[PewterTA]

If you are ripping from a CD drive, EAC is the best and most thorough way to get the audio onto your PC. Infact there was an article that you can set EAC up a certain way, rip at 1x and burn at 1x and it will actually turn out better than the stamped CD....and has given audible differences....

Gotta love EAC. I've used Monkey's lossless, but I found that I liked FLAC over all better. Not really any noticeable difference, I just like that's it much more widely supported that Monkey's.

[aud19]

Something like this looks interesting for whole home AV and PC support and music/ movie server:

http://www.netstreams.com/

This stuff is pretty revolutionary, mainly because it uses proven hardware and IP technology to open the doors for integration with virtually ANYTHING. The most important part is that it does not rely on a windows based PC, so it is stable and reliable, but it allows PC's, PDA's, web tablets, web enabled phones etc........ to connect and control from anywhere in the world.

[PewterTA]

It's a neat idea Aud19... and one that in the future might be worth while. But I'll stick to a music server if I'm going to do that. Plus stick with one that's wireless so that I don't have to run Cat5e all through the house (though I already have that through the house. hee hee).

I like the way that Cambridge Audio is going with their Cambridge Audio Azur 640H ... it's wireless, you can automatically keep adding units into the mix to increase storage, it will use your PC as a storage location, it will stream music from the internet and incoporates the Wolfson WM8740 24/192kHz DAC which is a better DAC than what the Netstream one is.

Only nice thing about the netstream is the small wall units for everything. But I'm not sure if I want a 20 watt (digital) amp driving my speakers, I like to have my own choice in what drives the speakers... but that's just me.

[aud19]

Apparently they have more HT related audio AND video (including HD) distribution gear coming down the line. Also, there's nothing to say that you can't use wireless as well in the system (just need wireless router and hubs etc) and a PC based music (and/or movie) server That's the great thing about it is how flexible it all is. It's all IP based so you can run just about anything through it :T The built in amp units are for secondary zones (kitchen's/bedroom etc) you can still power your main HT with whatever you like

[kmak]

My daughter wants an iPod Nano for Christmas, plus a mini stereo for her room. I'm thinking I may as well get her a docking station for the iPod instead. Any suggestions on a decent docking station/"stereo"?

Thanks,

Ken

[miner]

I have the JBL Sounstage ($159) & Bose Sounddock ($299). The Bose is much more fuller sounding. The JBL is a bit tinny. I am not a Bose fan at all but this thing works for the iPod. Whatever you get be sure the Nano will fit. Also, get a protective case for the Nano - they scratch easily.

[bigburner]

Infact there was an article that you can set EAC up a certain way, rip at 1x and burn at 1x and it will actually turn out better than the stamped CD....and has given audible differences....

Isn't a digital recording just a series of zeros and ones? What on earth can EAC be doing?

[audioqueso]

Isn't a digital recording just a series of zeros and ones? What on earth can EAC be doing?

The advantage is when you're copying a pressed CD (most CDs) as apposed to a burned CD.

[garysi]

I ripped my CD collection to a couple of 250g HDD's in Apple Lossless. I have an ipod minii so I obviously can't get too many tracks on it. I have compressed the existing tracks to 320kps and increase the mini's capability and the tracks are placed on the hard drive as dupes of the original lossless ones. I playback the collection wirelessly through an airport express using the optical out to my Marantz optical in. My laprop has become my new remote, the drives being network drives. Sounds just perfect to me.