SACD and its future ?

[Bam!]

Hey duders!

So what are your two cents on this ?....I am so so interested in such a player....only because I have found my nirvana with sort of redbook listening and especially vinyl....

This being said the only source that I am sort of missing is SACD.....I was looking at the Maverick....nice.....warm....dynamics are quite interesting compared to redbook.....but not quite up there with vinyl.....so it seems fruitless to venture in such a direction......

But then I look at how many people respect and buy into this SACD phenemenon......so somewhere there has to be something I am overlooking....?

So what's your schpeal ?

[David Meek]

Hey Bammer, :later:

Bottom line? The jury is still out IMO. SACD has the ability to replace vinyl if done properly. Some SACD recordings have already been done that measure up, but many of the new releases are multi-channel which to me is going for the wow-factor and not necessarily concentrating on getting the best audiophile-quality pressing out. Now, add to that the fact that just buying an SACD-capable player doesn't mean you'll get an improvement in sound. A low-end system might produce some difference in the SQ, but not to any great degree. A mid-level system will begin to start reaching the envelope available from good SACD - a well set up one will get a bit further. But to really reap the benefits, you need a good beginning-high-end system at least, to hear what all the fuss is about. That's why I don't have SACD yet. I don't feel my system will do it justice, so I'll wait until I upgrade a bit on the amp/pre-pro side before taking the plunge.

As always, this is just my 2 cents. YMMV.

[MattCXII]

I was first exposed to multi-channel music by chance. I walked into my Rotel dealers just for a Saterday afternoon peek when low and behold... he had a room set up with this amazing sound comming from it. I was astounded at the quality of what I was hearing and had to enquire. DVD-Audio was what I was told. Like a fat kid to a smartie... I was hooked. I spent quite a lot of time that day listening to both SACD and DVD-A in this little room. I almost bought the Denon 2900 that day but I held off to see what the source music was like in the stores.

That's where I was dissapointed. At least in my neck of Ontario, there is little to be found. I was so dissapointed when one music store informed me that "SACD is mixed throughout the store and DVD-Audio we got rid of two years ago because I couldn't give the stuff away". That made me very sad since I truly feel if the masses could just have the same experience I did... they would be hooked.

The marketing of these two products is absolutly horrible. Very little money has gone into the promoting of this sound. I have decided to hold off for a little bit and invest some money into a good redbook player. Before I invest I want to see the following:

1. Who wins the format war.
2. music distributors creating more hybrid SACD's of newer artists.

That is the problem with format wars... the public waits to see who wins and then generally no one wins. :cry: I understand that the Universal Player was to eliminate this "format war" but then what do we have to blame for the poor performance in the market?

SACD/DVD-A hasn't taken off to even a small percentage of the way that DVD did.

We will see.

Matt
:huh:

[Bam!]

Hey David :later:

Always a good response from you......hmmm where's Burke!

All the points that I have been thinking....I agree completely.....Funny thing is to be so close to vinyl...which IMO is "the" sound.....and yet so far away at the same time.....

I have to say...listening to the music without the ritual of vinyl.......wouldn't be the same....but I am sure I could adapt!

Rumour has it that the next best thing besides sliced bread is Blueray....or something like that.....it has the DvD audio quality sound...whatever that means.....and a picture too....

Joe six pack rules the earth!

...however having Pat Barber or Nina Simone on Tv at the same time as hearing her....WOW! :lol: then again....maybe without the pic is better for her! :rofl: ops:

[Bam!]

That is the problem with format wars... the public waits to see who wins and then generally no one wins. :cry: I understand that the Universal Player was to eliminate this "format war" but then what do we have to blame for the poor performance in the market?

SACD/DVD-A hasn't taken off to even a small percentage of the way that DVD did.

We will see.

Matt
:huh:

Thing is Joe Six pack wants a lot for cheap....if he can buy an MP3 player...an Ipod...download songs from the net for peanuts/or free......and it sounds like poop....you think he cares ? He doesn't know or want to know any better....

[MattCXII]

Bam, you have done it...

You have found the real problem with today's market. I think these few words can sum up the state of our sad little "who gives a crap" society:

The audiophile is dying... long live MP3.

;zx :cry:

[Shane Martin]

Bam,
I owned an SACD player for a few days before the player basically crapped but the audio quality was quite good. So much so that when I buy another player, I plan to make sure it has SACD capability.

As long as you can find material on SACD that interests you, I would do it. The biggest issue is finding a player that has solid bass management on it. If I were you I'd strongly consider one of the stand alone SACD only type players and avoid the ones with DVD players. I know you can get an awfully nice Marantz for around $600US that will be quite good.

I feel SACD is going to be around a while but I do think Dual Disc might be nice. We don't need a special player for these though.

For me DVD-A didn't have any titles I wanted so I'm not buying Dvd-A.

[aarsoe]

IMHO the issue is not so much the actual SACD format - or for that matter DVD-A, but more the fact that in order to get 5 channel sound you will be needing to use your processor as an interface.
And here is the major problem - while we all think Rotel or Halo's are nice sounding, they really dont deliver when it comes to passing the analogue signals. Try replacing any of the former mentioned with a decent pre amp and you will know what I mean right away.
So until they make just as good processors or multi channel preamps, as the ones that exists today for stereo, we wont be getting all from the format.
If you buy that point of view, and take into account that most people dont want to pay additional for the same music on a SACD disc, compared to a cd - well.... Need I say more?

As an example - the most sold SACD album was the Rolling Stones album, where Sony did not even write on the album that is was SACD in fear of people not buying the album.. So millions bought it, without ever knowing that is was a dual disc..

[David Meek]

For me DVD-A didn't have any titles I wanted so I'm not buying Dvd-A.

Me too Shane. I have a few DVD-A titles but they just don't do it for me.

[Bam!]

IMHO the issue is not so much the actual SACD format - or for that matter DVD-A, but more the fact that in order to get 5 channel sound you will be needing to use your processor as an interface.
And here is the major problem - while we all think Rotel or Halo's are nice sounding, they really dont deliver when it comes to passing the analogue signals. Try replacing any of the former mentioned with a decent pre amp and you will know what I mean right away.
So until they make just as good processors or multi channel preamps, as the ones that exists today for stereo, we wont be getting all from the format.
If you buy that point of view, and take into account that most people dont want to pay additional for the same music on a SACD disc, compared to a cd - well.... Need I say more?

As an example - the most sold SACD album was the Rolling Stones album, where Sony did not even write on the album that is was SACD in fear of people not buying the album.. So millions bought it, without ever knowing that is was a dual disc..

Well for me I am more of a let us say 2 channel guy.....BUT.....I have heard a 5 channel reproduction on SACD that was "interesting" It gave you the echo of the rrom they played in .....the audience merged in with the show....The sound quality was the pits IMO....

The mix is very important....which in 2 channel...there is no chance that the mix is messed up to the point you don't enjoy the music...

Eg: A piano playing behind me.....that doesn't do it for me......Cripes the guys on stage don' t even hear it like that!

[aud19]

Steve, like anything else it will only be as good as the media you put in and that depends a lot on the mixing/mastering. There are some great SACD's and DVD-A's out there and thankfully most have both 2-channel and multi-channel tracks to choose from. A good portion of SACD's also have CD, layers though DVD-A's new "DualDisc" format is adding that feature as well.

Unfortunately due to high-res audio's relative unpopularity and the fact that all disc based music sales are down (cursed MP3's :evil: ) there's less than a huge selection, though that's slowly, steadily, improving.

If you have the means, i agree, get a stand alone SACD player and seperate DVD-A player , though this means you either have to have some way of connecting them both to analog 5.1 ins or only connect one of them to the 5.1's and the other to a 2-channel input (likely SACD) Otherwise a universal is, like most people, your best bet. Of course going universal means that the quality won't be as high up there, accept in the big-dollar machines, just like most AV equipment. Whether a moderately priced universal with good SACD/DVD-A software will outperform your pretty nice Copland fed equally quality CD's is something only you can answer as none of us have anything close to your ears, room and gear.

Jason

[Bam!]

yup...I agree buddy!

[Kevin P]

I've had a SACD player (a 2-channel only model) for several years now, and I love how SACD sounds on my system. Think of all the good aspects of CD sound minus the harsh digital veil you get with redbook, and you've got SACD. The problem with SACD is lack of marketing, Sony never pushes their proprietary formats enough and they end up failing or becoming niche formats. My favorite aspect of SACD is hybrid discs. I can buy one disc and play it on all my players, CD or SACD compatible. I can listen to it on my home system in SACD, or in my car or discman in CD format. Try to do that with a DVD-A.

One thing I disagree on is, MP3s aren't the cause of decreased music sales. The fact that most mainstream music is crap is the reason for decreased sales. :evil: Crappy music is still crappy even if it's done up in a well mastered SACD or vinyl.

[ThomasW]

As a early adopter (SCD-777ES) I liked SACD, and I still really like SACD.

Now that there are so many hybrid discs available, things are just getting better.

http://www.sa-cd.net/

[aud19]

I can buy one disc and play it on all my players, CD or SACD compatible. I can listen to it on my home system in SACD, or in my car or discman in CD format. Try to do that with a DVD-A.

Response:

A good portion of SACD's also have CD, layers though DVD-A's new "DualDisc" format is adding that feature as well.

Jason

[ThomasW]

I was looking at the Maverick....nice.....warm....dynamics are quite interesting compared to redbook

Before pulling the trigger on something from Shanling you might want to read this thread

[David Meek]

That's pretty sad. I didn't see one positive comment in that thread about their customer service. 8O