It's time for a Statement announcing my latest project..

[impala454]

I did not see an expected price on the Emotiva site for the XPA-5... does anyone know?

[Jim Holtz]

I did not see an expected price on the Emotiva site for the XPA-5... does anyone know?

They posted $799 as the price for the XPA-5 and the XPA-2.

Jim

[impala454]

for 7x200W that sure sounds like a deal to me

[Jim Holtz]

for 7x200W that sure sounds like a deal to me

Actually, the XPA-5 is rated at 5 x 200. It's a 5 channel amp. the XPA-2 is 2 channel. The ratings of both by channel combinations and for both 4 and 8 ohms are listed on the Emotiva main page.

These are both killer amps with huge power. Both are based on the same topology as the LPA-1 but on steroids as the designer described them. :T

HTH

Jim

[impala454]

oh duh... XPA-5 hehe ops:

[Sefferdog]

Actually, the XPA-5 is rated at 5 x 200. It's a 5 channel amp. the XPA-2 is 2 channel. The ratings of both by channel combinations and for both 4 and 8 ohms are listed on the Emotiva main page.

These are both killer amps with huge power. Both are based on the same topology as the LPA-1 but on steroids as the designer described them. :T

HTH

Jim

That is a killer deal!! Now, bring on the MMC-2!! :T

[Hdale85]

I want to see specs of the MMC-2 before I decide to purchase the LMC-2 :B I've heard they are going to be quite similar.

[Dennis H]

BTW, Class A starts at something over $4,000 AFAIK.

Not only that but they consume full power as soon as you turn them on, even if you aren't playing anything. Lots of heat and a big drain on the old electric bill.

[Hdale85]

Yeah, they say if your looking for a tubey amp go for Class D. Personally I love Class A/B and adding a tube preamp. Thats for music only though. For movies Class A/B is great.

[FredT]

Tweeter Cap Comparisons

I was wondering if anybody has tried different 3.9uF caps in the tweeter crossover. I'm building a couple more pairs of Statements and have rigged a multi pole rotary switch so I can compare caps, including NP electrolytics, Jantzen Crosscaps, Clarity SA's, and Jantzen Z-Superiors. I'll report on any difference I hear when the new enclosures are completed. :huh:

Also, just for the helluvit I'm building one pair with additional bracing. With my original pair I did hear some resonances around 300-400hz with my ear pressed to the enclosure sides adjacent to the woofers and the top panel. For one of the new pairs I've replaced the 5X10 braces with modified window braces, and I've also added 1/2" eleven-ply birch plywood to the interior sections nearest the woofers. I increased the enclosure depth a bit to compensate for the interior volume lost to the added plywood. The other pair I'm building for a friend is per the enclosure drawings. When they're completed we'll compare them and report on any differences.

Here's a picture showing the braces and the plywood lining.
http://fredt300b.smugmug.com/gallery/4274907_KTENt#250417536

[Jim Holtz]

I was wondering if anybody has tried different 3.9uF caps in the tweeter crossover. I'm building a couple more pairs of Statements and have rigged a multi pole rotary switch so I can compare caps, including NP electrolytics, Jantzen Crosscaps, Clarity SA's, and Jantzen Z-Superiors. I'll report on any difference I hear when the new enclosures are completed. :huh:

Also, just for the helluvit I'm building one pair with additional bracing. With my original pair I did hear some resonances around 300-400hz with my ear pressed to the enclosure sides adjacent to the woofers and the top panel. For one of the new pairs I've replaced the 5X10 braces with modified window braces, and I've also added 1/2" eleven-ply birch plywood to the interior sections nearest the woofers. I increased the enclosure depth a bit to compensate for the interior volume lost to the added plywood. The other pair I'm building for a friend is per the enclosure drawings. When they're completed we'll compare them and report on any differences.

Here's a picture showing the braces and the plywood lining.
http://fredt300b.smugmug.com/gallery...TENt#250417536

Hi Fred,

Cool stuff you're doing. I'm looking forward to hearing the results of your tests.

I used Clarity SA's on the ribbon crossover (3.9's) in my friend Chris's Statements but they've never been compared side by side with mine. I can tell you the sound quality is very crisp and clean. Excellent!

I'm looking forward to hearing all about your tests.

BTW, what did you use to line your cabinets? I'd think that foam/fiberglas/sonic barrier etc. would kill any cabinet resonances.

Jim

[FredT]

BTW, what did you use to line your cabinets? I'd think that foam/fiberglas/sonic barrier etc. would kill any cabinet resonances.
Jim

The resonances are minimal, but this is such a good speaker I'm motivated to make my second pair of enclosures as perfect as possible. I used fiberglass inside the original enclosures to absorb internal reflections. Black hole or its equivalent would have been better, but I'm too cheap to buy a couple of sheets. The first speaker I ever built was a pair of Wayne J's Eros MKII's, which use half inch plywood lining to damp panel resonances, and those enclosures are among the deadest I have ever heard, so I decided it might be worth trying this on my second pair of Statements.

I didn't mention it, but this time I'm also using two 3/4" panels for the baffles instead of the 3/4" and 1/2" per the plans. I'm doing it this way because I had lots of 3/4" mdf in the shop and would have had to buy a 1/2" sheet just for the inner baffles. I'm also using a rear facing port and installing the crossover in the base.

BTW, I'm building a second pair because I demoed the first pair when I hosted the Houston Audio Society's Christmas party in December. Word got out about them, and somebody decided they had to have a pair. I sold them my first pair and started building my second pair, on which I plan to use a better quality veneer so they will be true "Statement" speakers. Also, somebody had asked me to assemble the crossovers for a pair they were planning to build, and when I learned he didn't have any experience with tools I offered to help him build his in my workshop. We're well on our way with that pair too.

You can do anything if you got the right tools! :lol:

http://fredt300b.smugmug.com/gallery/3533508_WFKq2#199853409

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Fred,

What an awesome shop! I'm envious! :B

I'm very pleased that someone else found the Statements to be so good they just had to have them and that you liked the Statements well enough to build a 2nd set. I knew you were helping Don. Thanks for jumping in and offering assistance. That was darn nice of you! :T

Please let us know the results of your experiments. I find it very interesting. If you've snapped photos along the way, build pictures in a separate thread would be great!

Best regards,

Jim

[CraigJ]

Hi Fred,

That's quite a gallery of speakers you have made and owned. If you have time, would you please compare the Statements to some of the other speakers you have built. I'm especially curious as to how the Statements compare to some of the line arrays you've listened to. Jim, I'm hoping that would also include you. Has anyone tested the Statement's with the backs off the woofers? Possibly adding a pair of RS225s on top like Mark K has done with his prototype dipole speaker. www.markk.claub.net/ I'm guessing that may be the Y in DIY.
Thanks,

Craig

[cacophonix]

Hi Fred,

Thanks for jumping in and offering assistance. That was darn nice of you! :T

Another huge thumbs up for Fred! :T :T
Truly one of the nice guys around!

[Sefferdog]

I want to see specs of the MMC-2 before I decide to purchase the LMC-2 :B I've heard they are going to be quite similar.

I've got an LMC-1, so I will qualify for the 40% kick back on my next generation purchase. With a price point presumably of $999 for the MMC-2, that would put my price at $600 for it. Hard to pass up.

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Fred,

That's quite a gallery of speakers you have made and owned. If you have time, would you please compare the Statements to some of the other speakers you have built. I'm especially curious as to how the Statements compare to some of the line arrays you've listened to. Jim, I'm hoping that would also include you. Has anyone tested the Statement's with the backs off the woofers? Possibly adding a pair of RS225s on top like Mark K has done with his prototype dipole speaker. www.markk.claub.net/ I'm guessing that may be the Y in DIY.
Thanks,

Craig

Hi Craig,

I consider both the Statements and my Omegarrays exceptional speakers. I love the walk around imaging of the line arrays and the nearfield listening experience. It is unique and very addicive.

However, the open back transmission line we employed in the Statements design give 90% of the di-pole sound with out the placement problems. The midrange of the Statements is truly exceptional, IMHO. I also think the Titanium midrange drivers have a slight leg up on the line arrays for detail. Dynamics are amazingly close for me but if you are an all out home theater buff that wants ear splitting SPL, the line arrays win that contest.

Top end is similar since they're both ribbons from the same company. Bass is very, very strong for both speakers but I do augment the Statements on home theater only with a 15" sub. The (4) 8" drivers in the Statements move an amazing amount of air and are perfect for music but home theater requires some room shaking, IMHO. The (2) 12" subs in the Omegarrays do fit the bill and really don't need the extra 15" sub I have.

EDIT: I forgot about the di-pole bass question. Here's where di-pole gets really sticky. You rapidly run into excursion issues around 150 Hz. with most woofers. It also is a reason the Statements are designed the way they are and why the crossover point was chosen. They have the biggest share of the di-pole spacious sound with out the compromises inherent in a true di-pole design. The Statements can be placed 18" or closer if necessary to a back wall and still sound great. They'll get insanely loud if desired and do it with ease. All the while sounding exceptionally refined and smooth yet extremely dynamic. Those were all objectives that were established for the design when Curt and I developed the concept and ultimately the final design.

HTH

Jim

[Coconutout]

hey guys on my nad 2200 amplifier theres inputs for lab and normal. ive learned that lab input takes off the filters for low and high giving the amp freq response from 3hz to 80k. listening to the statements thru the lab in, theres certainly more headroom and dynamics. but i was wondering if there could be factors for hearing damage too. just cuz i think there could be frequencies that i get exposed to yet cant hear.

[zjason]

sealed statements - sneak peek

I have the center channel finished and up and running along with one tower.

Hopefully I will have the other tower complete by next weekend to complete the set.

Pic attached.

[Jim Holtz]

I have the center channel finished and up and running along with one tower.

Hopefully I will have the other tower complete by next weekend to complete the set.

Pic attached.

Looking good! Are you using the 40" tall cabinets? If so, the ribbon still needs to be at ear height for best sound quality.

We're looking forward to seeing the end result and getting your feedback.

Jim

[zjason]

Hi Jim,

These cabinets are actually 48" tall, the bottom 8" is sealed off and houses the crossovers. The ribbon is pretty close to my ear level when seated.

The center sounds fantastic, I just need to find a new placement for it due to it's size.

:T
Many thanks again Jim for all your work and sharing with the forum.

A few more pics attached:

[zjason]

What can't be seen in the pictures is the following support:

Two sonosubs using 15" original Adire Tempest drivers. 220L vented each.

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Jim,

These cabinets are actually 48" tall, the bottom 8" is sealed off and houses the crossovers. The ribbon is pretty close to my ear level when seated.

The center sounds fantastic, I just need to find a new placement for it due to it's size.

:T
Many thanks again Jim for all your work and sharing with the forum.

A few more pics attached.

Perfect! I'm glad you're enjoying them. :T

Jim

[impala454]

I have the center channel finished and up and running along with one tower.

Hopefully I will have the other tower complete by next weekend to complete the set.

Pic attached.

That black center looks awesome! Love the finishing on the tower as well.

[zjason]

The center channel and the sides of the towers are MDF, painted with black melamine paint (3 coats - sanded lighly with 240 / steel wool between). On top is 2 coats of Minwax Polyshades black to provide the high gloss. The combination turned out pretty good.

The main frame of the towers is birch plywood stained with Minwax Polyshades, natural oak - 3 coats.

There are some minor touch-ups still to be fixed, but overall it turned out pretty good for my first attempt at cabinetry. I hope to have the second tower completed this week.

These are "HEAVY" units, I struggled to lug the one tower up from the basement for a sound check on the crossover.

I can't wait to have everything in place and working together. I am going to move my current mains to surround duty, if I can hide them behind the couch. Movie night at my house is quite the experience, I'm glad my wife is so understanding...

[Hdale85]

Are you going to build like a stand or something to put the towers on? They look rather low as most usually like the tweeter ear height. Unless you sit on the floor

[zjason]

No - no plans for any stands, I think they are the right size and certainly make their presence known in the room. I took the picture from a set of stairs leading down into the room, so maybe there is a little distortion.

The cabinets are actually 48" high and the tweeter is reasonably within ear level when seated. I am more concerned about proper placement of the center channel, I think I am going to build a stand to mount it just above the tv from the rear, slightly angled down to listening position. Ahh More projects...

The center channel sounds really good so far, unfortunately I have not had enough time to enjoy over the last few days. Bass from the towers might be harder to evaluate since my twin sonosubs were handling everything from 80Hz on down and can flex your innards. I will fine tune the crossover settings in my Harman Kardon once the second tower is finished and I move the old towers to the surrounds. The nice thing about the HK is that i can set 3 different crossover points (1 for mains, 1 for center and 1 for surround).

[Hdale85]

I'm pretty sure almost all newer receivers and pre/pros will allow you to do that Some will even let you set crossovers for each speakers I believe.

[Jim Holtz]

No - no plans for any stands, I think they are the right size and certainly make their presence known in the room. I took the picture from a set of stairs leading down into the room, so maybe there is a little distortion.

The cabinets are actually 48" high and the tweeter is reasonably within ear level when seated. I am more concerned about proper placement of the center channel, I think I am going to build a stand to mount it just above the tv from the rear, slightly angled down to listening position. Ahh More projects...

The center channel sounds really good so far, unfortunately I have not had enough time to enjoy over the last few days. Bass from the towers might be harder to evaluate since my twin sonosubs were handling everything from 80Hz on down and can flex your innards. I will fine tune the crossover settings in my Harman Kardon once the second tower is finished and I move the old towers to the surrounds. The nice thing about the HK is that i can set 3 different crossover points (1 for mains, 1 for center and 1 for surround).

A couple thoughts...

If you place the center above the TV, position it with the ribbon on the bottom. You'll be amazed that it doesn't need to be tilted down. I had always tilted my centers to angle down to ear height in the past but Curt convinced me to give it a try. The lobing pattern of the crossover will cause the sound to be just right with the ribbon on the bottom. I'm assuming that your ear height is no more than a couple feet below the speaker and you're sitting back from the TV 8'-10'.

Second thought. Once you get the other Statement done, try lowering the crossover point. Start at 40 Hz and work your way up. The statements have exceptional mid bass that is super tight.

Also, run the center full range. Lots of bass there too.

HTH

Jim

[zjason]

Thanks for the advice Jim, I'll give it a try and see how the sound changes.

[Coconutout]

ow yeah my statements finally got done. here's a money shot of my apartment and the statements proudly taking up a big space of it. as you can see my so called living room is no bigger than the bedroom when i was living with my parents before college. and i dare not sacrifice inch of it for good sound. i'm actually gonna bring out all my equipments to the space between the speakers to even further reduce the space but increase sound quality. cuz i need the amp near the speakers for the 100 dollars per 6 feet wires im installing. if you guys have recommendations for budget but nice looking stereo racks please let me know thanks. pew but anyways moving on to the speakers, its base were replaced with wooden fence post caps. i know its not the most dense thing but i put another 3/4" sheet on the bottom and besides the carpet it sits on is super plush/thick. the posts are spheres that sits on rectangle pyramids but ofcourse its inverted so my statements have little wooden balls as feet. the black parts of the speakers are velvet sheets. i chose velvet over painting to further maximize the stealth/ninja-ness when the movie projector is operational. for the accent, wood veneer strips that run horizontally . working with the strips alone cost me six hours. i havent bothered to post any close up shots cuz the truth is that the work isnt very clean. and plus i would rather be listening to them instead of working on them. which is what im gonna do now lol. they are being run with a tube dac, tube preamp and a SS mosfet amp. a sherwood am7040 probably the best find yet for me because it actually puts out more deep/clean base than my nad 2200 while being all tuby like at the same time. synthetic tube sound as i have coming thru statements are simply gorgeous. i actually had a tube amp that i had to get refunded for because the statements were too revealing of their distortion. but with a mosfet as one of the forum member here had suggested, the sound just simply becomes something special. anyways thats my input here for the day, if you guys could help me out with fixing the pic to just become a full spread that would be great. and if you guys could give me recommandations for bargain priced but good looking stereo racks please let me know. thank you and good day.

[Jim Holtz]

Lookin' good Coconutout! I'm glad you're enjoying the Statements and you got your electronics the way you want it. :T

Jim

[seeker]

Opinions please

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The dilemma:

I'm leaning towards starting on the sealed Statements with integrated sub ala'
CBS, only with a 10" or 12" instead of a 15" subwoofer.

On the other side of the fence is the M12ta 3 way design study. (I dream of cutting those facets on my Rockwell 12/14.)

Either way, the design will follow a Sonus Faber Cremona look (my wife loves that look----and I do too).

I've been following the agonizingly slow (have mercy on me Dark Lord) M12ta development since its inception. It's just such a beautiful, classic design. And imagine those slopes and facets in a Sonus Faber wrap.

Should I wait for the M12ta design, or go with the Statements?

(I'm not so much in a rush to hear something as I am to start building something.)

Any opinions/advice appreciated. Thanks

PS--I love Bach on organ
__________________

[Jim Holtz]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The dilemma:

I'm leaning towards starting on the sealed Statements with integrated sub ala'
CBS, only with a 10" or 12" instead of a 15" subwoofer.

On the other side of the fence is the M12ta 3 way design study. (I dream of cutting those facets on my Rockwell 12/14.)

Either way, the design will follow a Sonus Faber Cremona look (my wife loves that look----and I do too).

I've been following the agonizingly slow (have mercy on me Dark Lord) M12ta development since its inception. It's just such a beautiful, classic design. And imagine those slopes and facets in a Sonus Faber wrap.

Should I wait for the M12ta design, or go with the Statements?

(I'm not so much in a rush to hear something as I am to start building something.)

Any opinions/advice appreciated. Thanks

PS--I love Bach on organ
__________________

Hi Steve,

I don't think anyone can offer more than a guess. I don't think any one has built the M12ta. I can tell you that I've heard some fine Accuton designs and they are very good. BUT, I wouldn't trade the Statements for them. I'm having a real love affair with the Titanium mids and the open back transmission line design. They are so crystal clear, detailed and smooth, I really don't have a desire to build anything to replace them.

Fred T sold his pair of Statements to a Houston Audio Society member who had to own them after listening to them at one of their get togethers. Fred is nearing completion on his 2nd pair to replace the ones he sold. I took that as a huge compliment that he likes them so well he's building replacements.

We're into the dozens of Statements builders at this point and to the best of my knowledge, all have been extremely pleased. Since you're thinking about building the sealed with a sub version, email CBS (Chris) and see what he can tell you about his Statements after living with them for several months.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

Jim

[phisch]

Since you're thinking about building the sealed with a sub version, email CBS (Chris) and see what he can tell you about his Statements after living with them for several months.

I just starting reading this thread, but I didn't realize there was a sealed version of the Statements. What is the volume of the sealed cabinet? I'm assuming the mids are still open in the back, or are they sealed as well?

[Jim Holtz]

I just starting reading this thread, but I didn't realize there was a sealed version of the Statements. What is the volume of the sealed cabinet? I'm assuming the mids are still open in the back, or are they sealed as well?

Yes the mids are still the same transmission line open back design. The only thing that changes is the cabinet is shortened from 55" to 40" and the port is eliminated. I'm working from memory but I believe I sized the RS225 portion of the cabinet at around 60 - 65 liters net. I can tell you they have incredibly tight mid bass sealed. The ported versions have exceptional bass but sealed is just a touch better in the mid bass region. A sub is required for the bottom octave, however when you go sealed.

The open back adds a fair part of the magic that makes the Statements so enjoyable to listen too, IMHO.

HTH

Jim

[zjason]

Completed Set:

Here is the finished pair:

Now I'm debating about needing to upgrade my receiver in order to properly power these fine pieces. Maybe others with the sealed version can chime in on their experience.

Current: HK avr 145, rated at 40W x 5 (all channels driven, 20 - 20000 Hz). I love the sound and features of the HK, the only weak spot is that it does not have pre-outs
I am looking at a Yamaha rx=v659 that has the pre-outs and is highly rated by many reviews.

For subs, I have 2 15" Tempest ported sonosubs powered by an Behringer EP2500 pulling about 700 Watts per channel. Currently crossed at 60 Hz.

[Jim Holtz]

They look great!

Unfortunately for you, the better the electronics, the better they sound. Have you checked out Emotiva? They have excellent electronics at very reasonable prices.

Jim

[zjason]

Emotiva

I have read many posts on the emotiva and it looks like everyone is waiting until summer for the next generation LPC2.

It seems like a nice system, however, is it really that good in terms of relative value? i.e. can I find a receiver or used equipment of basically equivalent performance for a fraction of the cost?
Yamaha rx-v659
Older HK 7000 (100wpc x 5)

How much better, if any, would the emotiva combo be than the Yamaha rx-v659?
If it's about clean power delivered to the speaker during listening:
emotiva - 125w x 5, 50w x 2
yamaha - 100w x 7 (measured by audioholics at 120wpc, 2 channels driven)

[Jim Holtz]

I have read many posts on the emotiva and it looks like everyone is waiting until summer for the next generation LPC2.

It seems like a nice system, however, is it really that good in terms of relative value? i.e. can I find a receiver or used equipment of basically equivalent performance for a fraction of the cost?
Yamaha rx-v659
Older HK 7000 (100wpc x 5)

How much better, if any, would the emotiva combo be than the Yamaha rx-v659?
If it's about clean power delivered to the speaker during listening:
emotiva - 125w x 5, 50w x 2
yamaha - 100w x 7 (measured by audioholics at 120wpc, 2 channels driven)

Well, let's put it into context. If you think all electronics sound the same, specifications will be your guide. It will also depend on what you like to listen to. MP3's, DVD's or well recorded CD's.

If the source is well recorded music, IMHO, the Emotiva is a significant step up compared to all but uber expensive receivers and easily the equal of those. The LPA-1 has a 1.2K transformer and optimized short path circuitry with a weight of 63 pounds. Those are not options on most receivers when everything has to be packed into small all in one units.

I think the MMC-1 at $699 is an incredible bargain. It's based on the Motorola 5600 DSP chip. Exceptional surround sound but no support for the new HD codecs.

I can tell you the Statements are more than capable of reproducing very minute differences in the electronics.

YMMV....

Jim

[zjason]

That's good to know about the emotiva.

I will keep my eye on the used market in Canada and see if I can locate one or if anything comparable comes available for a reasonable price. Hopefully there will be a few used units when they release the next gen models this summer as people trade up.

[Coconutout]

oh yeah i had some people come by to buy some equipment today, and the guy who was auditioning the statements complimented them on how 'open' and dynamic they sounded. he said his speakers put the music in the center while mine just surrounded you with it. so i asked him what speakers he had. he said Magnaplans. I said, "the maggies?" "yes, the maggies". wow, i thought magnaplans were king of dynamics and 'openness'. statements deserve a place in the hall of fame.

[dCraig]

Here is the finished pair:

Now I'm debating about needing to upgrade my receiver in order to properly power these fine pieces. Maybe others with the sealed version can chime in on their experience.

Current: HK avr 145, rated at 40W x 5 (all channels driven, 20 - 20000 Hz). I love the sound and features of the HK, the only weak spot is that it does not have pre-outs
I am looking at a Yamaha rx=v659 that has the pre-outs and is highly rated by many reviews.

For subs, I have 2 15" Tempest ported sonosubs powered by an Behringer EP2500 pulling about 700 Watts per channel. Currently crossed at 60 Hz.

Great job ZJason. I think you sarted from my Natalie P design pictures and your build looks sweet. I've been gone a while but many, you guys keep pushing forward. Nice to see these new Statements flowing out. Great work.

[KorbenDallas]

Can the height of the speaker array be raised without adversely affecting the speaker's sound? From the drawings there is about a 5" gap between the top of the cabinet and the top woofer. I'd like to make that gap 2" or 3".

[Jim Holtz]

Can the height of the speaker array be raised without adversely affecting the speaker's sound? From the drawings there is about a 5" gap between the top of the cabinet and the top woofer. I'd like to make that gap 2" or 3".

Yes, the driver array can be slid higher on the cabinet but you do want to have the ribbon at ear height for optimum sound quality.

Jim