It's time for a Statement announcing my latest project..

[CBS]

Chris/Jim: Can you give a little more detail on how the statements are bolted to the subs? Also would it be possible to get some detailed dimensions on the sealed statements? I'm currently building the center and was thinking of doing something similiar to what Chris has done there, but like Dave said, with 18"s

More pictures would be awesome as well (pics of the backs & build pics would be sweet if possible)! Beautiful work!

Impala454,

The top of the sub and the bottom of the statement are both 1.5 inch MDF (two 3/4 pieces glued together). The are bolted together with 4 1/4" by 4" bolts. (Iowa farm boy over engineering)

The width and depth of the statements is the same, I will have to measure the height, I can't remember off the top of my head.

I will try to pull some more pictures together and get them posted in the next few days.

Chris

[CBS]

Chris,
May I ask how you integrated the 15"? Do you run the channel to statement and sub? Daisy chain to sub then statement?

For those much more informed than I,
I have not seen any power handling information. How much is too much power (is there is such a thing)?. Mine are currently fed (in theory) 100W X 2 from my receiver. Probably much less when used for HT. I am considering a Crown XLS202D to feed them (300W X2).

David

David,

For the front speakers I am running an Adcom 750 preamp, it has three main preamp outs. I feed my Plinius amp off the balanced output and the sub amp off of RCA outs. For the rears I split the rear speaker preamp output off my outlaw processor with a pair of RCA to the rear amp and Adcom 555II and then another pair the the sub amp for the rear channels. The speakers are pretty effecient, maybe Jim or Curt could give you an idea on power handling, I know I have had it plenty loud with no sense of strain.

Chris

[CBS]

Jim: Thanks for the reply! After looking at air speed again, its really not going to be a problem for me since I'll be crossing my mains b/t 40 and 60hz. Also, my calc was assuming 50watts going to each woofer. 8x)

tpremo55: the measurement I was looking at was pure air velocity. I will definately use flared ports due to the amount they lower air turbulance. :T

CBS: ;x( You setup is gorgeous! Could you please post a bit more detail on your box sizes and the method you used for securing them together? Thanks!

CupCak3,

See the post to Impala454 for the method used to bolt them together. I need to add that the Statements are biwired with 10 gauge wire run up from the sub through the bottom of the Statement and then sealed with silicone.

[CBS]

I forgot to mention that there is closed cell foam, like what is used to seal the drivers used between the statements and the sub to seal any possible air leaks, I also used fender washers with silicone on them with the 1/4 inch bolts and lock washers.

Again, hats off to Jim for all his great help and support. The Pod Race in the Star Wars movie is just amazing with 4 15 inch subs, music is the best I have heard from a hoem system.

C

[MuaDibb]

Sefferdog:

Just finished another of Curt's projects, the Scrappy

That looks like a fun project for my daughters room, I haven't found anything on it tho. Is there a link or could someone point me to details on this ? Thanks

[Curt C]

Sefferdog:



That looks like a fun project for my daughters room, I haven't found anything on it tho. Is there a link or could someone point me to details on this ? Thanks

Scrappy Design Particulars:

I've not posted the design on my website yet, but will soon. Until then, this should get you going:

The outside dimensions are 14"h x 6"w x 8"d. The tweeter center is 7" from the top/bottom and laterally offset .75". The woofer centers are each 4" in from the top/bottom and centered on the baffle. The panel thickness was .75" (the solid oak and cherry are optional) and the edges of the baffle had a .5" 45 degree bevel. No internal bracing was used nor IMO, is it required. The enclosure was sealed and lightly stuffed with polyfill.

Attached is the original crossover, as heard at Iowa DIY, and a revised crossover. which, resolves the issue of the 1.15 mH inductor, which you have to unwind from a larger value to obtain. With the small enclosure and high Q and of the B3N, I'd suggest a cored woofer inductor for the lowest DCR.

I've not tried the revised iteration yet, and am hesitant to share it until I have. However, it should provide a bit more forward sounding response, which some may prefer. I would suggest the Jantzen P-core 255-100 or the Dayton I-core 266-550 for the 1 mH inductor.

C

[MuaDibb]

Thanks for the reply Curt, is the tweet that little Dayton? ND20?

[Curt C]

Thanks for the reply Curt, is the tweet that little Dayton? ND20?

Yes, the ND20FA 275-030 and the B3N 297-428. Sorry I forgot to mention the drivers.

C

[Coconutout]

would this amp pair well with the statements? http://cgi.ebay.com/YAQIN-MC-10L-Pus...QQcmdZViewItem

i already have the yaqin tube preamp and i thought it was worth every penny. i will be returning it and selling my NAD to make room for the tube amp.

or how about this amp? http://www.hi-end.on9mart.com/cart/Yaqin_MS-6V6.html

[Hdale85]

I've seen the second one used at DIYaudio a lot although you should know that that is GBP price and shipping the the states is crazy spensive. Also I've heard that tube amps aren't the best for metal cone drivers? I think someone made a thread about it here.

[Coconutout]

i thought i read on earlier posts about how the statements would be a good candidate for
a push pull tube amp. all i know is that the yaqin tube preamp that i replaced the denon with has transformed the statements into something magical. i imagine that it would only be more so with a full tube amp. ill be returning the preamp since its an integrated amp but i was wondering, could the sound become less 'tube' going from tube preamp + NAD 2200 to just one integrated tube amp?

[Curt C]

i thought i read on earlier posts about how the statements would be a good candidate for a push pull tube amp.

I believe the Statements will make for an easy load for tube equipment, as the input impedance variation is relatively benign. I suspect a tube amp will make the speakers sound a bit warmer and add some air to the top end where many tube amps start rolling off.

-I'd still make plenty of watts available to them though...

C

[Coconutout]

so you dont think 52w 8ohm per channel will cut it?

[Jim Holtz]

so you dont think 52w 8ohm per channel will cut it?

I don't think anyone can answer that question definitively but my take is the same as Curt's, the more power the better. You won't over power the Statements but you can under power them.

I believe FredT is powering his Statements with a tube amp. You might review his posts for feedback or send him a PM.

Jim

[Curt C]

so you dont think 52w 8ohm per channel will cut it?

52 watts would put you at about 100 dB SPL 2.83v/1meter. This can be adequate depending on how large your room is, the source material you normally listen to, and the SPL you like to listen at. The relatively soft clipping of tube equipment will of course, make listening to the amp near its limits more tolerable than a similarly powered SS amp.

As on option, you might also consider a SS amp with MOSFET outputs. Due to their architecture, they can emulate a tube-like quality. They more cost effectively provide higher power levels, and eliminate the relatively high output impedance of the output transformers in tube designs. -Coupled with your tube preamp, some might consider this the best of both worlds.

IMO, your best bet would be to visit a high end store (assuming you can still find one) and borrow different amps for home trials. What sounds best to you is after all, the best for you...

Since you are an accomplished DIY'er. You might also consider rolling your own amp. Below is a link to one such example: A well received MOSFET amp, I've not built it or heard it, so take this recommendation with a grain of salt, -but I am impressed with the elegant circuit design. The low power version would be sufficient for most needs. -Food for thought...

http://sound.westhost.com/project101.htm

C

[Coconutout]

i went and bought the tube amp. it will take 10 days to get here. hopefully i can bring myself to finish the speakers by then. probably not tho... id rather be listening to them than do anything else.

[Dennis H]

I hope you haven't sold the NAD until you get a chance to compare the two. You can search for Javier's thread where it turned out using a tube amp was the source of many of his DIY design woes.

[impala454]

I have been a friend of Jim's for many years now. I was also lucky to have his Statements at my house for two weeks right after he first finished building them. I loved them and with much help and support from Jim I have finally finished my first DIY speaker project. I have been working on these since May so I am very happy to have them up and running.

I use my room for HT in addition to two channel as such I needed some subs if I was going to replace my speakers with Jim's design. Jim and I talked and he came up with a great idea. The Statements were built as the sealed version and placed (bolted) to a sub cabinet containing a TC Sounds TC1000 15" sub. Front subs are run mono and crossed at around 40 hz, the amp is a Dayton Audio HPSA 1000-R. The same set up is used for the rear surround speakers.

The veneer is Waterfall Bubinga with 11 coats of Waterlox finish/sealer. I love the look but the sound is even better.

My hat is off to Jim, without his help I never could have completed this project.

Say man I find myself looking at these pics of your beautiful speakers quite a bit . What did you do to get the center on top of your TV like that?? Is there some kind of bracing or shelf or something holding it up? I'd like to do something similiar but there's no way I could put any weight on top of my Samsung DLP.

[CBS]

Say man I find myself looking at these pics of your beautiful speakers quite a bit . What did you do to get the center on top of your TV like that?? Is there some kind of bracing or shelf or something holding it up? I'd like to do something similiar but there's no way I could put any weight on top of my Samsung DLP.

Impala454,

Thanks for the complement, this was my first DIY project and I am very happy with them, I could not have done it without Jim's advice and help though.

I just sat the speaker on top of the TV. It is a rear projeciton Toshiba that is about 4 or 5 years old, it has no DVI or HDMI inputs, that was the next years model. Now I can't use an upsampling DVD player as I have no HDMI inputs, oh well....

CBS

[tpremo55]

I've had a few people ask for some more detail on my curved-side cabinet construction, so I thought I would provide a little more info here. The link below will take you to my build photos.

http://picasaweb.google.com/tpremo55/Statements_Web_Album

I've also got a google sketchup file that I'd be happy to share but is too large (even zipped) to upoad here. Just let me know if you want it and I will forward direct.

Still listening and enjoying these speakers very much.

Todd

[impala454]

Good call taping over the ribbon tweeter during the build... I wouldn't have thought of that.

Awesome job!

[tpremo55]

Good call taping over the ribbon tweeter during the build... I wouldn't have thought of that.

Awesome job!

...that would be a typical Jim-tip. My first build with ribbons and with a few tips from Jim I already looked like I knew what I was doing...

[Sefferdog]

...that would be a typical Jim-tip. My first build with ribbons and with a few tips from Jim already look like I knew what I was doing...

Fortunately I was privy to more than my share of "Jim Tips" as well. Made things much easier than they would have been otherwise. :T

[Jim Holtz]

You guys are making me blush... ops:

Thank you for building the Statements! :T

Jim

[Curt C]

You guys are making me blush... ops:

Jim

That's what you get for being such a nice guy, Jim! :rofl:

Seriously, you deserve all the laurels you receive. I feel privileged ;x( to count you as my friend, and give you a big thumbs up for the sage support you’ve provided the speaker building community all these years. :T

C

[Jim Holtz]

That's what you get for being such a nice guy, Jim! :rofl:

Seriously, you deserve all the laurels you receive. I feel privileged ;x( to count you as my friend, and give you a big thumbs up for the sage support you’ve provided the speaker building community all these years. :T

C

Well, my friend, I help when I can, but if it weren't for good and sharing people like yourself, I'd have nothing to help with. ;x( So the real pat on the back should go to you. I mean that sincerely.

Jim

[NateTTU]

Its great to see all the enjoyment people are getting from these statements and the amount of effort and time people share.

I haven't posted in a while, but still am planning to do a full statement ht setup (5.1). I'm curious though, would the emotiva LPA-1 be a good amp to use on these? I considered waiting for the XPA-5 and LPA-2. However, I learned the LPA-2 just adds 2 discrete channels but keeps the same output as the LPA-1 (125watts). The XPA-5 ups the power to 200 watts per channel but also costs quite a bit more. I'm trying to cut a few corners to keep costs down so the LPA-1 seems like the logical choice, anyone else using this to power their statements?

Perhaps in the future I may upgrade to a 7 channel setup but will most likely build a less expensive and smaller rear pair than the mini statements and could possibly power them with the LPA-1 using the extra 2 channels at 50 watts.

Any input would be greatly appreciated and thanks again Jim and Curt for this excellent design/bargain. Its awesome some people are this talented and willing to give of their abilities/time to complete strangers.

[impala454]

Nate did you go to Texas Tech? Nice to see a fellow Red Raider!

[Jim Holtz]

Its great to see all the enjoyment people are getting from these statements and the amount of effort and time people share.

I haven't posted in a while, but still am planning to do a full statement ht setup (5.1). I'm curious though, would the emotiva LPA-1 be a good amp to use on these? I considered waiting for the XPA-5 and LPA-2. However, I learned the LPA-2 just adds 2 discrete channels but keeps the same output as the LPA-1 (125watts). The XPA-5 ups the power to 200 watts per channel but also costs quite a bit more. I'm trying to cut a few corners to keep costs down so the LPA-1 seems like the logical choice, anyone else using this to power their statements?

Perhaps in the future I may upgrade to a 7 channel setup but will most likely build a less expensive and smaller rear pair than the mini statements and could possibly power them with the LPA-1 using the extra 2 channels at 50 watts.

Any input would be greatly appreciated and thanks again Jim and Curt for this excellent design/bargain. Its awesome some people are this talented and willing to give of their abilities/time to complete strangers.

Hi Nate,

Thank you for the kind remarks. Your enjoyment of the Statements lineup is all the Thanks that Curt and I need.

I use a LPA-1 and really like the amp. It handled the Statements perfectly, sounds great and never breaks a sweat even during very loud, dynamic movies which I'm fond of.

I like the thought of the XA-5 myself but the Statements really don't need the extra power. The difference in volume is only about 2 db. between the LPA-1 and the XA-5.

HTH

Jim

[NateTTU]

Nate did you go to Texas Tech? Nice to see a fellow Red Raider!

Did I go? Why yes and I will be graduating this Saturday! The statement lineup will be a graduation present to myself How about you? Still in or did you already graduate?

Thanks Jim, thats exactly what I needed to know.

[impala454]

Congrats. On both the graduation and the Statements! I'm a Spring '04 Computer Science grad.

Ok sorry statements thread... please continue

[Brian Bunge]

I'm going to GA for Christmas and think that maybe on my way back through I'll have to come back down I-75 so that I can stop by and listen to the Statements and Mini's!

[NateTTU]

I'm going to GA for Christmas and think that maybe on my way back through I'll have to come back down I-75 so that I can stop by and listen to the Statements and Mini's!

I live just a few blocks off of 75 and you would be more than welcome to come by. However, I don't plan to have these things finished until maybe late January.

That does bring up a good point, is there anyone around the DFW area who has built the statements and is willing to give a demo?

[Coconutout]

so i just got the tube amp running and WOW, goodbye solid state amps! there is sooo much bass for 52w. definitly more than the NAD. and the music is just so much more alive. the sound is in bit of a bright side but i imagine its due to the cheap chinese tubes that i have the replacements coming for. one question tho- 4ohm or 8ohm? the amp has output for both and to me 4 seems to sound better.

[Hdale85]

The Statements are 4ohm speakers. So yeah run them on the 4ohm taps.

[Sefferdog]

I'm going to GA for Christmas and think that maybe on my way back through I'll have to come back down I-75 so that I can stop by and listen to the Statements and Mini's!

Shoot me some dates so I can make sure I will be available, but that sounds like a wonderful idea. My back will certainly thank you. 8O

[Brian Bunge]

We're heading up Sunday night, Dec. 23rd. The morning after Christmas I have to drive my wife to Hartsfield in Atlanta so she can fly back to Orlando. My daughter and I plan to come back the following Sunday, which is the 30th. It could be sooner but I'm not sure. Let me know what your family/work responsibilities are between those dates. We have 12 days off. It sucks that I have to go back for two days the following week, just to have a 3 day weekend again.

[Sefferdog]

The 30th should work, check your PM.

[Coconutout]

im not sure if i like the foward presentation of the tube amp. yes, they're very very tube and the bass is more than saticefactory but the presentation is just little too aggressive.
ill probably returning the amp and getting a better solid state than nad 2200.

[Hdale85]

Might want to give a hybrid type setup a try If you can get a hold of a nice solid state amp and a tube preamp or line stage or even a tube buffer. You may like the sound a lot. Also the tubes make all the difference so if you don't like the sound of those tubes could try and give some other tubes a shot.

[Dennis H]

Tube power amps change the frequency response unless the speaker's impedance is perfectly flat. Glancing at the impedance curve will tell you which frequencies will get emphasized -- those where the impedance is highest. The Statements' curve is flatter than most but it still varies between 4 and 11 ohms. I'd expect a broad hump centered around 200, a narrower hump around 40 and a rising response above 5K. See the black line in the center graph in Curt's pic.

Tube preamps on the other hand don't have that problem as they are feeding into the constant impedance of the power amp's input.

[Coconutout]

i actually started out with tube preamp/solid state setup (yaqin mb12/nad 2200). loved the sound of tubes so much that i thought the amp would make even bigger of an improvement. well, it did in some areas but not in the others. and the distortion is just too artificial to ignore.

[impala454]

Jim, I'm looking at that foambymail.com site and am curious which product you used.

I see eggcrate 1 1/2" & 2 1/2", pyramid 2" - 4", and wedge 1" - 4"

[impala454]

Cool, I'm going to be finished with the center some time this weekend so since I picked up that roll I will probably give it a go on the center just to see how I like it. If it doesn't work out I can always make one of the beds in the house more comfortable! :B

[Curt C]

One word of warning...

The design of the statements is such that the mid lines are fairly close to the side walls of the enclosure. The upper woofer has to 'breathe' through this space for the design to work as designed. Too much stuffing in this area will affect the tuning of both woofers and also attenuate the port output. The foam Jim used (or likely any other open cell foam) worked well, and exhibits a consistent density when not significantly compressed. You'd have to be careful with fiberglass to make sure it didn't bunch up in those areas. 703 or 705 would not work well here.

Initially I considered adding some teased polyfill behind the woofers, but listening tests indicated it would likely be superfluous.

Open cell foam: You can breathe through it.
Closed cell foam: You can't.

C