Isiris evolution to Osiris Jr? Summary of Isiris build and new update

[cochinada]

I won't dispute how stronger LBL is comparing with MDF or even BB but even so, wouldn't it flex a little being so apparently narrow?

[meb46]

Good point... Had been basing my calculations and clearances off my last build using MDF, but that had two vertical braces. Given the single, and wider overall cabinet, going with thicker matrix might be sensible... at least for the vertical brace... revision coming up in 5mins...

[meb46]

Amended internal Brace... Remember to note, this is a big subwoofer cabinet... 300L, so dimensions can be deceiving...

[meb46]

Final update for the night... Bass and Top Mid/Tweeter Cabinets have ample room for crossovers...

Bass Cabinet is around 20 - 25L still to be confirmed
Mid Cabinet is supposed to be 5 - 8L but maybe oversized at the moment - will calculate actual volumes tomorrow

[cochinada]

Seems much better now! :T
What is the width of each side or the middle between holes?

About the horizontal brace that touches the baffle between the two big woofers I think I wouldn't hollow it before it gets to the vertical one, if I make myself clear. I would leave only the two holes closer to the rear on each side

[Ray_D]

Due to the symmetry, the vertical braces do not need any holes.

[cochinada]

Interesting remark. Anyways I maybe mistaken but I think that internal volume is also at premium here so the holes will allow a little boost I guess.

[JonMarsh]

Hummm can't find it. Isn't it D2908/714000 instead?

Oh you know what I mean... like these!

[cochinada]

Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :drool:

EDIT: I think I have these modeled on Sketchup. If not it's a similar model. I remember the backside was a pain in the ass...

I was right...

Image not available

This is not so good as it was made some time ago but I guess it can be useful just the same:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8B9pfRCUSiJblZBUzAwMURIbHM

[dar47]

Mike, looking great if I was being picky I would also remove the curvy holes closest the the front baffle in the 2 larger Horizontal braces that come in contact with the front baffle in the base section. This would strengthen those key elements and should still give good breath-ability to the woofs. If needed for volume ignore but it should save some CNC time too. Other then my pickiness think you did a great revamp on your original. :T:T

[JonMarsh]

Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :drool:

EDIT: I think I have these modeled on Sketchup. If not it's a similar model. I remember the backside was a pain in the ass...

I was right...

Image not available

This is not so good as it was made some time ago but I guess it can be useful just the same:

Thanks! I'll snag as soon as I'm back on a Mac. (My iPad Pro is not so useful for downloading files to where I work on them! )

[JonMarsh]

My bad- I was able to download it and load into SketchUp on my iPad Pro! Looks pretty good. Going to do a test series tonight with the Tascam setup.

[Face]

For closer C-C distance, there's always these: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-tweeter-each/

[meb46]

Thanks for the comments - much appreciated.

Same situation as the first version - volume in the subwoofer cabinet is a premium, so all efforts to increase volume has been taken. Crazy really, you would think 300L would be ample... but alas I need that and some! The subwoofer will employ a linkwitz transform, but even with that I want to get the best possible performance before fiddling through DSP etc.

Just another couple of points that have been confirmed, others are still to be decided...

1 - All enclosures will be bitumen lined as per version one.
2 - All enclosures will have the walls lined with a acoustic wool or similar. The subwoofer and possibly bass cabinets will have additional stuffing.
3 - I am contemplating using an adhesive Fiberglass tape, then epoxied on most of the internal corners for added strength. I was going to do this on the first versions but failed to get adhesive tape for ease of application, then it all got to hard.
4 - Will most likely use epoxy, not wood glue for the Bamboo... unless someone can reassume me wood glue is suffice???
5 - Base Plate and Enclosure separator plates will be 20mm and 12mm Aluminum plate respectively.
6 - All drivers will be mounted into threaded Wood Inserts - I don't want to go straight into wood given how frequently I may need to remove drivers to get the stuffing right.

Bamboo ordered and en-route from China at present. Woofers are due for assembly by AES in the next week, so its all progressing as planned. What could slow down the process...? The first born baby girl due in two weeks!

[meb46]

Joaquim - Nice modelling of the Tweeter! I might try to get that inserted into my Solid-works model shortly...

[JonMarsh]

For closer C-C distance, there's always these: https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-tweeter-each/

The response plots on VoiceCoil didn't exactly charm me for those models, but then I'm seeing what seem to be some common issues with their tweeter measurements- but I haven't gone through enough issues and measurements to really comment in any definitive kind of way. And the distortion measurements aren't done the way I would like to see them... and often aren't legible. Disappointing. But you're certainly right about the CTC distance, and I've played with the soft dome versions of these, too, but oddly never done a full blown system, just a relatively undocumented one off for a friend.

Speaking of documenting stuff, here is one of the pair of 7140's I just received, measured with the Tascam/Fuzzmeasure setup, doing a polar response sweep. I wouldn't say I see any real surprises compared to the measurements I did of meb46's on the same baffle; but for his new build, we'll need to have test baffles that match the actual front panel, as we did before.

[Juhazi]

What about phase matching challenge, looks to me that tweeter is in front of mid? What is the desing-measurement on-axis height?

[cochinada]

Joaquim - Nice modelling of the Tweeter! I might try to get that inserted into my Solid-works model shortly...

You are amongst the rare people outside of Portugal of course that write my name correctly. Just for that I'll model the Acoustic Elegance TD15 as well if I can find a suitable technical drawing and some nice pictures. :clap:

I can't find TD15 alone. Is it anyone of these (TD15H, TD15M, TD15S or TD15X)?

http://aespeakers.com/product-category/td/

Anyway I can't see any pdf with measures. :scratchhead:

[meb46]

The TD15S is the ones I am using... These are specifically for a Sealed enclosure, and I have the Lambda Motor upgrade also.

Phase matching on the above is an interesting one. The revised motor design of the C168 brings the Acoustic center well forward unlike the earlier C173. When I upload some photos I will show where the acoustic plane is, but crudely its at the baffle surface if you mount it correctly.

[meb46]

This should explain what I mean... This is well forward of the traditional C173, and from what I understand, one of the key design parameters on this driver.

[meb46]

Sorry... I should have called that the Acoustic Plane... but you can imagine the centre of the driver, on that plane is the Acoustic Centre.

[cochinada]

Accuton actually provides 3D renderings of their drives. Unfortunately I cannot import them into Sketchup Make. It is feasible on the Pro only. But I think you might do it on solid Works...

[Steve Manning]

Accuton actually provides 3D renderings of their drives. Unfortunately I cannot import them into Sketchup Make. It is feasible on the Pro only. But I think you might do it on solid Works...

Do you know what version of Sketchup it is? I have version 8 of the pro.

[cochinada]

Do you know what version of Sketchup it is? I have version 8 of the pro.

Then you should be fine. I think any Pro version can import the format they use (3D PDF). For 'Make' version you need a plugin that is not cheap and even so it doesn't work very well. I know because I've tried before.

BTW, if you can import it perhaps you could do me the favor of exporting in native Sketchup format.

[Steve Manning]

BTW, if you can import it perhaps you could do me the favor of exporting in native Sketchup format.

That was sort of my intent since you seem to be rather good at modeling these drivers ....... Do you have the link for the driver you have in mind?

[JonMarsh]

AS-190 and AS250 area available in the 3D PDF format; C168 isn't released yet; according to email communication with Madison it won't be for a while- much later this year.

[cochinada]

That was sort of my intent since you seem to be rather good at modeling these drivers ....... Do you have the link for the driver you have in mind?

AS-190 and AS250 area available in the 3D PDF format; C168 isn't released yet; according to email communication with Madison it won't be for a while- much later this year.

Well, in case you don't wont to wait that long I could try to model it. The most difficult part would be of course the grill so if you find one similar enough would do just fine.

[meb46]

Right... so finally some time at home to look at these new drivers...

AS250 follows...

[meb46]

C168 as follows...

[cochinada]

These As250 if they were perforated could make a nice pair of disk breaks. :B

[sdl2112]

Those look awesome...I'm jealous. ;x(

[TEK]

Final update for the night... Bass and Top Mid/Tweeter Cabinets have ample room for crossovers...

Bass Cabinet is around 20 - 25L still to be confirmed
Mid Cabinet is supposed to be 5 - 8L but maybe oversized at the moment - will calculate actual volumes tomorrow

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25729[/ATTACH]

Looking very nice!
But that side-wall are quite deep. What about adding one or two vertical brace that runs from the top to bottom of the bass module?

[meb46]

Final design nearing completion. After calculating the volume, I managed to bulk up some of the baffles as per various recommendations. I may add further bracing to the side panels once I see the finished machined articles...



Talking to the machinist today to discuss making the Top and Mid Cabinet Baffle samples for testing. I have decided to do the easy 2D CNC Routing myself and then "outsource" the more complicated 3D CNC Routed Baffles...

[dar47]

I like, awesomely mean looking, well braced and you should not feel a movement of that cab. If you find the 3D CNCing of the baffle very expensive check a local cabinet maker with a large panel saw. We used a guy with a 14" blade and it made short order of those facets. You would construct the baffles and CNC a jig to hold the completed baffle at the angle, see bottom of this page.

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?41409-Wavecor-Ardent-Journal-the-first-Builds/page5&highlight=ardent+build

[Evil Twin]

+1- that is the way I would highly recommend, too, IF you can find a craftsman with the necessary size panel saw like Darrell and Ben did.

[JonMarsh]

The IGES files load fine (BTW, my FX Shark will import the SketchUp models, too)

The design looks good, and it wouldn't be at all hard to generate TS production documentation from this and breaking out the piece parts.

[Horio]

Stop with all these beautiful renderings and photos of sexy looking drivers, you guys are planting crazy ideas in my head!

[meb46]

All the part drawings are in progress at present... I expect them all done by early next week...

I have been trying to get my head around the software I have for my CNC Machine (V-Carve and the proprietary Control software). Becoming increasingly frustrated with V-Carves import ability of DXF/DWG Quality.

[JonMarsh]

Well, I hope you're making progress, but the Vcarve issue sounds potentially serious- hopefully not a show stopper in the end.

[ergo]

meb46, what type of issues you see with Vcarve? I used a flow from Rhino3D to Vcarve and in end it worked quite ok. It was a bit trial error on what export setting to use in Rhino and in Vcarve I still needed to rejoin some closed curves that were joined in Rhino but somehow got broken in the process. But other than that it was workable for my Minerva version.

[meb46]

Ergo - Exactly that... in the import of a DXF or DWG into V-Carve, some of the vectors break, and need reconnection. You then need to instruct it to correct based on straight lines or curves etc. This I found still has errors. My main concern, post this correction process, it is no longer accurate to the DXF/DWG measurements. Its not bad, but somewhat makes a mockery of the accuracy its been designed to. I would be interested to know if a Mastercam generation of route paths and G-Code has any similar issues?

[ergo]

I've found that it turns out ok if I use the 'Join Open Vectors' with a 0.01mm tolerancs and if the original CAD had points perfectly aligned then no change to them happens. You can verify that also by showing the nodes before and after.
I do agree their UI is a bit misleading with this tolerance selection etc. Maybe it has to do with handling metric/imperial systems or some such where rounding errors can come into play.

[JonMarsh]

I've found that it turns out ok if I use the 'Join Open Vectors' with a 0.01mm tolerancs and if the original CAD had points perfectly aligned then no change to them happens. You can verify that also by showing the nodes before and after.
I do agree their UI is a bit misleading with this tolerance selection etc. Maybe it has to do with handling metric/imperial systems or some such where rounding errors can come into play.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]25773[/ATTACH]

Looks like very good info- thanks for sharing, Ergo

[5th element]

Those Accuton drivers certainly do look the part, they are very well made. It will be interesting to see if those deviations from the technical norm for loudspeakers and basket/motor design actually perform as well as they look!

[JonMarsh]

Those Accuton drivers certainly do look the part, they are very well made. It will be interesting to see if those deviations from the technical norm for loudspeakers and basket/motor design actually perform as well as they look!

Indeed, that is the $64 question- the factory specs look good, but what happens out here in the real world? I've got a knock down cabinet I could put together to test one of the AS190's, but I need to spend some time on the CAD setup and come up with a new mid bass enclosure design. Shark FX 9 is running well, but I should dig in to Fusio 360, and start building some chops on that...

We're up in the South Tahoe area where we're staying, the hotel wifi is nonexistent at this cabin at the end of the string, but my iPhone on Verizon has one bar, and I'm using it as a personal hot spot for my iPad Pro... Here's hoping when I push "Post Quick Reply"! :W