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Cherry for sure. I think richer colors go with the black baffle better. If you had done the entire cabinet in veneer I may have chose something different and lighter.
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+1 on the cherry...but I'm biased.Comment
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Hi Mark,
Thanks for posting some test pics.
I thought the straight poly would darken that up a litle more. I'm not feeling it.
I argee the golden polyshade came out nice. I rather like that.
But, I have to say, the cherry does look sweet & will match your entertainment center.
What does SWMBO have to say?
-David-David
As we try and consider
We receive all we venture to giveComment
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Thanks for all the responses guys!!!
The following dilemma didn't even occur to me until I just thought about it now...
The cherry stain that we used for the entertainment center was a custom mix from a company that seems to no longer be in business... So, even though I do have enough to do the speakers; if I were to build the center and the monitors at some point for a HT system, there is no way I would be able to match the color exactly...
I agree with Dave's statements that the plain poly didn't darken things up as much as I was hoping...
And, the golden Polyshades did turn out pretty nice looking...
The cherry is sweet as everyone has said, but now I am worried about matching it in the future and if I get some off-the-shelf Minwax cherry it might clash with the entertainment center...
I have not asked the wife her opinion yet; as I want to narrow it down and get a better idea of what I want first and then she can make the final decision...
I think I need to go buy a couple different small sample cans of stain and do some more test pieces with off-the-shelf colors; for possible future use...
That was a dumb oversight on my part...
ops:
MarkComment
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Mark,
Don't beat yourself up on the stain. I am sure when you built the EC that your sights were not on a full set of DIY speakers.
That said, you may want to save your perfect match stain for the center and like you said, pick up a close match for the rest.
After all when you build the mini's for surround duty you'll need more stain anyway. :rofl:
As, far as asking the wife, You reminded of what my dear father used to say. He was a custom cabinet maker for many years doing custom kitchens.
"Never give the woman the full chip ring. Pull out the 3 or 4 that will look the best, but never give her the full chip ring." -Jack Deignan
LOL :W-David
As we try and consider
We receive all we venture to giveComment
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David,
I almost spit my coffee out when I read your father's quote; I was laughing so hard...
:rofl:
"Never give her the full chip ring" - god that's classic... He is truly a man of my own beliefs...
Well, it will probably be the weekend before I do more stain tests... Till then I will be listening with pleasure...
More soon,
MarkComment
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I don't know if they're national, but Hirschfield's will match stains. If you don't have one near you, I'm sure there has to be a professional paint/ finish store that can do that.Comment
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Hey guys,
Just wanted to share some pictures of the latest additions to my Statements...
Custom name badges!!! :B
I designed the icon myself; basing it off of the curved backs, angled tops, and angled front baffle...
The material is just chrome covered black plastic... A buddy of mine has a laser etcher and did these for me as a gift...
I think they turned out beautiful!!! :B
It is really a PITA to photograph such shiny/reflective material... The first couple really show off the quality... The last couple not so much... Although you can see how nice they will look once attached... I plan on attaching them with double sided tape once the speakers are stained...
Hopefully I will have some stain updates after the weekend...
Thanks,
Mark
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Pretty slick Mark!
You have one tricked out set of Statements! ;x(-David
As we try and consider
We receive all we venture to giveComment
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Wow those look fantastic!Comment
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Those look great! A long way back after the Statements were first announced, I checked into getting name plates made but couldn't find anywhere that didn't have a very large minimum order and were quite expensive.Originally posted by mlammert
Very cool! :T
JimComment
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Hey guys,
I know it has been a while since my last post... Sorry...ops:
My "honey do" list grew quite large while I was working on the Statements and I have been spending a lot of time getting things crossed off the list...
But, I have been thoroughly enjoying the Statements while relaxing... :B
I have not decided on the color of stain yet for the Statements... I need to run to the big box this week for some plumbing supplies so hopefully I can make detour to the stain isle...
However, I do have a slight question/problem:
The other night I was enjoying the Statements and I looked over and noticed an odd shadow on the side of the one speaker... Upon closer examination it seems as though the veneer has bubbled up in an approximately 2" by 3.5" oval...
I had this happen a few times (in different spots) the day and a couple days after I veneered the speakers... I just re-ironed them down and all seems to be good... However, it has been close to a month since they were veneered... Granted I could have just overlooked this, but I highly doubt it...
Is this something to be worried about???
How should I correct this beyond just ironing it down???
I guess I am really worried because if this happens again after I stain and poly; I don't know how I would get the bubble to go away without ruining the finish???
And, I promise, I will choose a stain color soon!!! :P
Oh, one last question: I noticed several people commenting on the name plates my friend created for me... Is it inappropriate to post his contact info for others whom might want to use his services???
Thanks guys!!!
MarkComment
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Hi Mark,
I'm not Thomas but I don't think this would be against the rules. I'd very much like to have the information and I think other would too. :T
EDIT: Sorry, I didn't add my thoughts to the veneer issue. Since they're unfinished, I'd suggest you use an exacto knife and make a small slit in the bubble with the grain and then re-iron it. I usually use a veneer scraper or just a piece of MDF with the edge sanded down to repeatedly go over the veneer with LOTS of pressure immediately after ironing it. It's hard work but it helps it stay in place.
HTH
JimComment
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Cool... I will get it together and post it with my friend's permission...Originally posted by Jim Holtz
So, question, what exactly does the slit do???Originally posted by Jim Holtz
Thanks for the quick and good advice!!!
MarkComment
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Lets the air escape if you just iron it down eventually the bubble will work the veneer out again. If you have access to a syringe (sp? doesn't look right haha) with a small needle might be able to stick it in and suck the air out which would leave a less noticeable mark. Although after staining and what not the slit might not be to noticeable anyways.
Comment
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Cool, thanks for the explanation Dougie!!! :T
MarkComment
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Hey guys,
Finally... I have been slacking a little on this...
Here are three new stain color options that the wife and I picked out...
Photo Home shows one coat of stain and Photo Forum shows two coats of stain...
The top one is Ipswich Pine, the middle one is Colonial Maple, and the bottom one is Golden Pecan...
These do not have poly on them, BTW...
Personally, I don't care for the top one... Too brown...
The middle one looks nice with two coats... With one coat it almost looks pinkish... With two coats it really looks reddish orange...
The bottom one looks good with one or two coats... I think this gets the closest to what David and I were originally talking about as far as just a slightly darker natural color...
I am torn between the middle and bottom one...
Thoughts???
Thanks,
Mark
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I think the middle (cherry color?) one looks best.Comment
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Hi Mark,
I have to agree with Dougie. My vote is for 2 coats of the maple. I may be biased, I do like cherry.-David
As we try and consider
We receive all we venture to giveComment
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Thanks for the feedback so far guys... I really appreciate it!!!
Does anyone have any opinions on using a conditioner or not before staining???
Thanks,
MarkComment
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I used conditioner b4 staining, and recommend it. The main benefit is bringing out the character in the wood; richening it. However, be careful not to apply too much or you risk the veneer being brought up.
Also a trick I read on the forum was to let the stained pieces sit out in the sun to richen the character even more. However, speaking from experience don't let the wood get too hot or the veneer and/or the glue will start to come up. This happened in the Florida summer sun however, so the surface temps were 100+ degrees.
I recommend trying out methods on a large test piece of wood. This way you can achieve the right combination of steps to your liking. Also I found variations in the test pieces vs. the actual wood due to having a larger surface area to cover and more variations in the wood grain.
HTHComment
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Thanks FroDaddy... I appreciate that advice and insight...
I will definitely get some conditioner before staining... I have enough veneer left over; I will probably do a test piece on a larger 8"x8" or 10"x10" test piece...
Thanks again,
MarkComment
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One more (sort of unrelated) question:
Anybody have any experience with the DIYEDEN Great March 2 DAC from Pacific Valve & Electric???
It is really hard to find non-biased reviews on these things... I have found a good review that seems obviously written by an employee/dealer and I found a horrid review that seemed obviously written by a competitor...
I found reviews on its predecessor, the DIYEDEN Great March; which seemed very favorable... And, I found reviews on a similar product called the MD-10 which were also very favorable...
The DIYEDEN Great March 2 DAC seems pretty sweet for $400 since it is a DAC that has up-sampling and a dejitterer (yeah - that's not even a word :P )... That being only if it truly is all it is cracked up to be...
Basically, I have been bitten by the DAC bug and would like to find the best bang for my sub-$500 buck...
I will be feeding this from my OPPO and my SqueezeBox DUET...
Thanks again,
MarkComment
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Not sure if you've seen me mention it but I love my Twisted Pear Audio Opus DAC Although it's semi DIY and not sure you're looking for that. They are working on a new kit that's based on the new ESS Technology 32Bit Sabre DAC which will be the first 32Bit DAC I believe. It looks very interesting.
http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo.aspx this is the new 32 bit Buffalo page. That's what they call the Sabre DAC is the Buffalo. What's nice about this one is that pretty much everything you need is built on the one PCB. Previous version you had several PCB's. No pricing yet though but they should have that soon from what I heard from Russ last time I talked to him.
The one I have is this
I have a dual mono configuration with the Metronome which is a Jitter Reduction ASRC. It is very very nice The Buffalo was even sweeter and I imagine the new 32 bit version will be even that much more sweeter.
Oh also a bit more about my configuration! I also have their 4:1 Mux board which gives me 4 Coaxil or Optical inputs. They also have a USB input board and what not. They are working on something called the AC1 which is a control module that will be able to change inputs, volume and what not and it will have an LCD screen. It will be compatible with universal remotes as well.Comment
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Thanks for the detailed post, Dougie...
However, I really don't think I am in the market for a DIY circuit board like this...
I really appreciate it though!!!
Thanks,
MarkComment
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Well this is why I said semi DIY. It really isn't much of DIY the PCB's actually come almost fully populated. The only parts that you have to put on are the screw terminals and a couple caps (with the USB board) heck Brian may even throw those in for you if you wanted lol. But even so I can understand someone not wanting to do this even. For the most part you just have to set some dip switches and wire it up.
I have heard of Pacific Valve but I have not heard any of their stuff. They are supposed to be pretty good.Comment
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Hi Mark,Originally posted by mlammert
I was in the market for a DAC a few months ago and ended up buying a Pacific Valves Lite Audio DAC-62 on Audiogon. It's a modified DAC-60 that they used to offer before replacing it with the Brigatta. It has been the best addition I've made to my system since the Statements. :T With the DAC-62 I have the best sound I've ever had out of my system.
Here are some of the DAC's that caught my eye when I was looking around:
Cambridge Audio DACmagic - $400
Keeces 131 MKII - $350 + shipping
Channel Islands VDA-2 - Around $450 used or $600 new
All have gotten good owner reviews. Here's an old list of DAC rankings by Vic in his blog. Note that it was before the Great March 2 was introduced:- DAC 62
- Modified DAC 60
- DAC 68
- DAC 38
- DAC AM Modified
- Great March Madness!
- DAC AM
- Great March Modified
- Great March
- DAC AH Modified
- DAC AH
(end of quote)
I hope that helps in your search. I'm also using the Duet as a transport and it works great! I'd suggest you look at Audiogon. DAC's are a component that are upgraded frequently so there are like new used ones for great prices available.
JimComment
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The DAC Magic is actually very similar to my DAC. A friend of mine has it and loves it and I got a chance to listen to it. It's very close to my DAC and well worth the money so I can recommend that one
Comment
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I forgot to mention that if you're setting pieces of plywood in the sun to bake, you risk warping the boards. I had this happen to me, but again they were baking in the Florida summer sun so surface temps were 100+ degrees; too hot to hold with bare hands.Comment
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Thanks for the advice FroDaddy... I do not plan to "bake" the speakers... But, that is good advice none the less... Thanks!!!
I know a few people commented on the Cherry/Reddish stain... But, I might have to go with the bottom Golden Pecan one... The light wood against the black fronts and backs is REALLY growing on me and my wife...
Again, I am going to get some conditioner and maybe one or two more stain colors and do some larger test pieces this weekend...
Also, thanks to everyone for commenting on the various DAC's... Decisions decisions... Sheesh...
Dougie, that is a good suggestion on the DACMagic... However, I cannot find hardly any "reliable" reviews on it... All the ones I could find come form HiFi magazines and all they talk about is the input and outputs... I can see those from the picture and from the manual... :P I guess I am looking for some personal reviews on the effects that the up-sampling and de-jittering has on the music... And, primarily what it does to the sound stage and instrument positioning... Most reviews I read about abut other "high-end" DAC's comment on how the vertical and horizontal sound stage is usually increased and how the positioning and definition of the instruments is typically greatly improved...
My worry is that it does not improve any of that (not that the Statements really need that) and that is why none of the review comment on it... Although most of the reviews go on for paragraphs about its USB input... Again, yes, cool, I can see that it has one...
Thanks again everyone!!!
MarkComment
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Seems to me, the DAC chips are mostly pretty good these days, certainly better than they were in days past. So the main thing is a big enough data cache that you don't get overruns or underruns and reclocking the signal coming out of the cache. Even the premium receivers are doing that these days -- stuff that used to be limited to the megabuck standalone DACs.Comment
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KECES DA-131 Mk2
Anybody have any experience with the KECES DA-131 Mk2???
I was following up on the DACMagic and started reading a bunch about the NOS DACs and the KECES DA-131 Mk2 seems to be getting quite a few good reviews...
Any thoughts on this DAC or NOS in general???
Thanks guys!!!
MarkComment
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NOS is generally more laid back from what I've read and experienced.Comment
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Hi Mark,Originally posted by mlammert
The 131 MKII uses Burr Brown 1793 DAC's with a very short signal path. I like that. It also has a very large substantial power supply. It does have a couple opams in the analog side but they are socketed so that opens up options.
I exchanged emails and was near a purchase when I stumbled across the DAC-62. The only downside I found with the 131 MKII was the manufacturer didn't accept returns and that bothered me a bit. He is very responsive and appears to work hard to satisfy his customers. I've also read that the 131 is a step up from the DACmagic.
The 131 MKII is very similar in design to Channel Islands VDA-2 which is highly regarded. Same DAC too.
EDIT: NOS doesn't do a thing for me. There have been too many advancements in DAC's to use the old 1541's, IMHO.
JimComment
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Oppo -> KECES DA-131 Mk2 -> Statements
Hey guys,
I know it has been a while since I have posted on here.
I have been enjoying my Statements for several months and finally decided to get (ask for) the KECES DA-131 Mk2 DAC for Christmas.
I was hooking it up today:
I have my Oppo 980H as the transport and currently connected the Oppo 980H to the KECES DA-131 Mk2 via a digital RCA.
Oddly, I could not use the digital TOSLINK cable because it will not fit into the KECES DA-131 Mk2 opening. But, that is a different problem.
Anyway, I then plugged the KECES DA-131 Mk2 into my amp with the standard left and right RCA.
Well, it worked but the music blasted out at full volume. Scared the #*$&*% out of me (both in terms of startling me and the dog and in terms of fear that I could have damaged the speakers :E ). Statements seem to be fine as I am now listening to them via standard RCA from Oppo to amp and all sounds wonderful.
So, after fiddling with the Oppo 980H, I have come to the conclusion that you cannot control the volume of the digital output via the Oppo 980H.
Does anyone know if this is true?
Any assistance on getting my Oppo 980H -> KECES DA-131 Mk2 -> Amp -> Statements setup properly would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys and happy holidays!
Mark
EDIT: I have done some more research and I am thinking that in the Oppo 980H setup if I switch the digital from RAW to PCM that maybe in PCM mode it will allow the Oppo 980H to control the volume. I don't really want to try this in fear of blaring the music again. Hopefully someone can confirm or deny this idea.
Thanks again!Comment
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Hi Mark,
You have to have a preamp between the DAC and the amp to control the volume. You were in fact at full volume and very lucky it didn't damage the Statements.
JimComment
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Thanks for the confirmation Jim. I really appreciate the quick response!
I didn't realize I would need a preamp between the DAC and the AMP.
Ugh. I really really hope I didn't hurt anything. 8O
So, I have a couple questions:
1) I have listened to the Statements and everything seems to be okay after accidentally playing them at full volume.
1a) Being a bit paranoid about this, what should I listen for to be sure that I did not accidentally blow a speak?
1b) Is there anything else I could have unknowingly damaged?
2) Since I am really not into home theater or anything like that at this time, I don't want to drop several hundred on a preamp just to control the volume.
2a) Do they make units that can go between the DAC and the AMP that simply control the volume?
2b) If so, are there any that anybody could recommend?
Thanks again Jim for the quick and informative reply!
MarkComment
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If your DAC has a volume control then you don't really need a preamp between the 2.Comment
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Hi Mark,Originally posted by mlammertThanks for the confirmation Jim. I really appreciate the quick response!
I didn't realize I would need a preamp between the DAC and the AMP.
Ugh. I really really hope I didn't hurt anything. 8O
So, I have a couple questions:
1) I have listened to the Statements and everything seems to be okay after accidentally playing them at full volume.
1a) Being a bit paranoid about this, what should I listen for to be sure that I did not accidentally blow a speak?
1b) Is there anything else I could have unknowingly damaged?
2) Since I am really not into home theater or anything like that at this time, I don't want to drop several hundred on a preamp just to control the volume.
2a) Do they make units that can go between the DAC and the AMP that simply control the volume?
2b) If so, are there any that anybody could recommend?
Thanks again Jim for the quick and informative reply!
Mark
What have you been using for a volume control? I think we need to understand your current setup before we can make any recommendations.
If everything sounds normal, particularly the highs, the Statements should be fine.
JimComment
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I've had 3 W4-1337's go out on me. The first was bad out of the box and distorted by smearing/blending the sounds together. The second was my fault because a small piece of MDF got lodged between the phase plug and the cone. This one sounded similar to a kazoo at certain frequencies. The third one "blew", but I have exceeded the same volume level many times thereafter without issue. The third one sounded like a blend between the first and second examples. With all of these it was difficult to find the source of the issue, but once the speaker in question was replaced it was obvious it was bad.Originally posted by mlammert
I've found the W4's to be fragile, but nobody here but me seems share this sentiment. Good luck!Comment
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Thanks guys,
I will have another listening session and pay particular attention to the highs and blending/smearing sounds. But, as I said, I am pretty confident that everything is luckily okay.
My current setup is this:
Oppo 980H -> Emotiva XPA2 Amp -> Statements
I have been using the Oppo's built-in volume control to adjust the volume of the Statements while listening.
I only use this system for 2-channel music playback so figured this was the most straightforward system.
After discussing DAC's in this thread with several people I finally decided to get the KECES DA-131 Mk2 based on the price, a couple recommendations, and various reviews I have found.
My desire was to modify my setup to be:
Oppo 980H -> KECES DA-131 Mk2 -> Emotiva XPA2 Amp -> Statements
Using the Oppo only as a transport. But, as you all know from my recent posts I was not aware the Oppo could not attenuate the volume for the digital outputs. Which I guess now looking back that a "transport" would not control the volume. I am now getting mad at myself. Anyway.
So, that leads me to where I am now:
As Jim suggested I need a preamp to control the volume. So, I am just wondering what everyone would recommend in terms of equipment to simply control the volume of the music.
I am not into home theater and already have an amplifier. And, I only use the Oppo as my source. So I really don't need (or at least I don't think I need) a true preamp. That is why I was asking if their were standalone devices that only controlled volume.
I could be way off base with my thinking here. Obviously in this example I literally knew just enough to be dangerous and really lucked out that I didn't hurt anything.ops:
So, based on the above info could anybody recommend to me a piece of equipment or maybe some choices of equipment that will let me use my system as desired:
Oppo 980H -> KECES DA-131 Mk2 -> ??? -> Emotiva XPA2 Amp -> Statements
Thanks again for all your help already and for the extremely responsive replies and suggestions. Its been a while since I built my Statements and I am quickly remembering how helpful and nice everyone is here.
If I have left out any important information, please let me know.
Thank you to all!
MarkComment
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I just wanted to give a quick update.
Late last night I had emailed the Oppo customer support in a panic:
Right now I have my Oppo 980H connected directly to my amplifier and use the Oppo's built-in volume control.
However, I would like to go from my Oppo 980H to my DAC (S/PDIF outputs) then to my amplifier. Is there a setting on the 980H that will allow me to control the volume of either of the S/PDIF outputs?
I figured it would be a couple days to get a repsonse due ot the weekend and holidays. However, I just checked my email and had this in my inbox:
If you set Digital Out to PCM then you will be able to use the Volume controls on the player. Please note that all audio will be Stereo, regardless of the source.
Does anybody have any any opinions on their suggestion?
If I set the output to be PCM am I losing any benefits/features of the my new DAC?
I am still very interested in hearing anyone's comments on my previous post, but just wanted to share this new piece of info with everyone.
In the meantime, I think I will test Oppo's support suggestion on an old spare set of speakers.
Thanks again!
MarkComment
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If you adjust the volume digitally you will loose resolution and not take maximum advantage of your new dac. There's passive volume controles out there you can use but that "could" give you an impedance mismatch and weak output problem instead. My advice is to get a decent active preamp or maybe your old amp has a preout you can use?
Comment
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That should work fine. If you want to test it, you could borrow an integrated amp and try adjusting volume via the oppo. Alternatively you could simply measure the output of the DAC with a meter while varying volume.Originally posted by mlammert
As to how well digital attenuation works, like most things it depends on implementation. It can work very well, so I'd trust your ears.
DanComment
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I just wanted to give an update to the current setup.
I have set the digital output of the Oppo to LCM. Apparently this bypasses all audio adjustments of the Oppo; except for the volume control.
I have also set the LCM to 192KHz on the Oppo.
I have done extensive listening sessions and the Statements appear to be playing fine with no audible distortion. So, I am feeling good that the Statements were unharmed during the sudden and loud burst of music when originally hooking up the DAC.
I have not done any official A/B listening to the system with the DAC and without the DAC due to the effort needed to rerun all the wires each time. However, I am confident that I can definitely hear a positive difference with the KECES DA-131 Mk2 DAC in the system.
Listening impressions with the KECES DA-131 Mk2 DAC:
1) As an overall general statement, the music seems more "live" sounding. Before the DAC I use to feel like I was at a concert and I was at the back of the venue. Now, with the DAC, I feel like I am in the first couple of rows right in front by the stage. The sound stage seems wider and more forward. the speakers really do just disappear.
2) Bass seems tighter and more hard hitting. Very clean.
3) Many people talk about how the instruments seems more well placed and individual. I get this somewhat. But, this aspect is not as in my face as my (1) and (2) observations above. I think this is partially due to the Statements just being so high end to begin with.
4) Overall the sound just seems more "real". I have been listening to Paula Cole and Howie Day and their voices are just phenomenal with the DAC. Don't get me wrong. The sound of the Statements is incredible. Some of the best sounding speakers I have ever heard. But, with the DAC, I feel like I am actually hearing the song come out of the singer's mouth. It almost gives you chills as to how "real" the music seems with the DAC.
Music before the Statements seemed jumbled and wadded up. Voices sounded like they were just coming straight out of the speakers at you with no life.
Music with the Statements was opened up. As if a dirty screen had been removed from a large picture window. The different voices and instruments were layered and individual. Everything had its own personality and individuality. The speakers disappeared into the room.
Music with the Statements and the DAC is now what I call "well blended". The voices and instruments are still layered and individual. Everything still has its own personality and individuality. But, and this is a BIG but, now it is as if all these individual personalities are working together. They all come together to form something that sounds like real life.
I hope all that wasn't too cheesy. :P
Thanks again to all of you that replied to my original questions and issues. I truly appreciate it.
I can't wait to get back to listening to the Statements with my new DAC.
Thank you all!
MarkComment
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