Has Classé been closed? (rumour)

[Audio_ElF]

Any comment on this rumour ... https://www.strata-gee.com/classe-closed/#more-16137

I know there are some people around here with official standing within B&W Group.

Any comment?

[TomScrut]

I have read this rumour on several sites, but there doesn't seem to be any grounding for it other than "I have seen it on several sites". Now one thing I would say is nobody has asked
"Is it just the Canadian staff" i.e. are they moving it elsewhere (such as China)? I would be very surprised if B&W just decided to shut it down when it would surely be worth money to them? If it was insolvency then surely B&W would rescue it in some way?

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[Ovation]

I live in Quebec (less than an hour from the Classe headquarters) and if they were to close shop (or just pick up and move), it would make the news around here. Haven't heard a peep. Not to say it can't happen--just that I think I'd have heard about it if it already did. Wish I could afford their gear (maybe someday).

[Patrick Butler]

Classé has not closed. However, we have stopped development on the Delta Series to ensure that the products deliver the experience people have come to expect from Classé Audio and Bowers & Wilkins. We will continue to sell Sigma Series products, and our customer service and support have not been effected. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America

[Audio_ElF]

Thank you for clarifying Patrick ...

[Norm]

That is a relief. Classé is too important a player to go away. The high-end industry needs companies like Classé that have their depth of engineering and design capabilities.

So the Delta 3 introduced a CES 2017 has been canceled?

https://www.stereophile.com/content/delta-3-stereo-amplifier-class%C3%A9

[TomScrut]

Classé has not closed. However, we have stopped development on the Delta Series to ensure that the products deliver the experience people have come to expect from Classé Audio and Bowers & Wilkins. We will continue to sell Sigma Series products, and our customer service and support have not been effected. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Regards,

Patrick Butler
B&W Group North America

Stopped development or started anew? If you aren't developing products then they won't get better will they?

Great news its not closed though.

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[aarsoe]

I must admit that I am very saddened by the news. To me the Sigma series where always a way to "milk" the brand value by offering products that did not offer the same quality as the Delta series but to the same or near the same $$$$$.
Closing down the Delta product line tells me that the road forward for the Classé brand is not based on the same quality principles that made Classé a serious alternative to brands like Krell and Mark Levinsen.
I am however confused about how B&W will go forward as they obviously will have a gap when it comes to matching the 8xx line to something in house.
And before you all jump on me then please compare say the Delta SSP model to the same product in the Sigma line and tell me they will satisfy the same end-user. The idea of creating an Atmos capable processor with so few outputs is ludicrously. Or do the same to two channel products.
To me the Sigma line is the step up from say a Sonos setup. Not something a custom installer would ever offer their customers.
I just hope that the brand will live on long enough to see the fall of the genius that came up with this idea so that someone else may return the brand to its former glory.

[TomScrut]

I must admit that I am very saddened by the news. To me the Sigma series where always a way to "milk" the brand value by offering products that did not offer the same quality as the Delta series but to the same or near the same $$$$$.
Closing down the Delta product line tells me that the road forward for the Classé brand is not based on the same quality principles that made Classé a serious alternative to brands like Krell and Mark Levinsen.
I am however confused about how B&W will go forward as they obviously will have a gap when it comes to matching the 8xx line to something in house.
And before you all jump on me then please compare say the Delta SSP model to the same product in the Sigma line and tell me they will satisfy the same end-user. The idea of creating an Atmos capable processor with so few outputs is ludicrously. Or do the same to two channel products.
To me the Sigma line is the step up from say a Sonos setup. Not something a custom installer would ever offer their customers.
I just hope that the brand will live on long enough to see the fall of the genius that came up with this idea so that someone else may return the brand to its former glory.

The only thing I will jump on is that there is a HUGE gap between Sonos and Sigma series..... A vast multitude of inferior systems exist between them. But I agree with what you say about the Delta and the fact that the Sigma series will not be offering 800 series owners a lot.

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[aarsoe]

I concede that there is a big gap between the Sonos products and the Sigma's but was trying to make a point.
To me the Sigma line is primarily a design item, like the Sonos products and not a product that put sound quality as its first priority.
I just have a hard time seeing Classè make a a segment for it self based only on the Sigma line.
They will be hard pushed from above by companies like Devialet or Bang and Olufsen (B&O) (yes, I am aware of the pricegap) and the ton of companies offering streaming based products below its price range.
I think the biggest challenge will be lack of brand recognition in the segment they are trying to focus on.
I hope I am wrong since I love the Classé brand for all the thousands of hours of joy I have had listening to their products.
But if I am limited to a Sigma based product with the same limited features as today's then I am likely to pass the offer and find something that goes more in the direction that I want.
As a final parting note I have been the owner of far to many Classé products - both two channel and multi channel. I have rarely had issues and if I had any they were fixed promptly.
Then the bean counters decided to move things to China and when many others on this site raised their concern I was giving Classé the benefit of the doubt as the factory was Classé owned and operated - we where told.
However when I got my last product - the CP-800 I was utterly disappointed.
Quality had really taken a nosedive. I had two screws on the top cover that ran so tight and that could not be completely inserted. I contacted Classé and was told I could get some new screws, but have never seen any.
The implementation of the phono board is so stupid that the person behind it should be fired.
Who the hell makes a phonoboard that you cannot change settings on without taking the pre-amp almost completely apart.
Time to do so at least 30 min, but based on how much you have hooked up to your preamp.
I so want Classé to continue, but if it will be with Sigma based products designed by people who don't really understand what they are doing then I would rather spend my money elsewhere.
Please find your way back..

[TomScrut]

I agree with most of what you say again, I don't think it is good for them to only have Sigma products.

The CP800 I believe to be a great product, if it was a better DAC (it's very good but not fantastic) I would still have mine, and I am missing its crossover functionality.

I thought a lot of phono preamps could only be changed by taking them apart? Mine (Dynavector P75) needs taking apart. I know the majority are either non configurable or have jumpers on the back panel but I didn't think it was unusual.

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[aarsoe]

Hi
Yes, most phono stages require that you open them up to change settings but the way the CP-800 is done is crazy.
You need to take out a daughter board that is hold in place with a lot of screws. On top there is all of the rca/phono plugs that also needs to be detached. Best guess time wise is 1-1.5 hours of work before you can flick the dip switches.
But see for your self here.

http://docplayer.net/40251575-Cp-800-sigma-ssp-and-2200i-phono-board-upgrade-installation.html

You have to take the board out before you can change anything. And the connectors are not created or designed for very many insertions and detachments.
Worst design I have ever seen anywhere.

[HiFiGuy]

From other sites it really does look like at least Montreal is closing. Supposedly someone was at the Montreal office and people there said it was closing soon and they were basically counting the days. Unless someone buys the classe name and continues production current product is the end. Maybe the new owners will slap the Classe name on something else.

https://www.strata-gee.com/sales-schism-multiple-bw-regional-managers-resign/#comment-12578

Hello everybody
I’m Classé lover and read a lot AVS forum and Stratagy but I never talk on them because my English not so good.
Today I have to log in and tell everybody the truth.
I visit Classe to drop off my both Omicron Mono which one is getting a little bit too warm and want to leave it until September because I am gonna go on vacation and want to give them time no stress to repair and make full checks.
Mister Adams customer service agent tell me that they cannot keep for so long because everybody got fired and they are gonna close so maybe better if I wait and sent to BW USA when I get back.
I ask to go to toilet and pass all the office and they all with no people and warehouse also no people so I don’t think Patrick Butler tell us the truth.I wait anxious for interviews results from Ted.
Very very sad time for Audio people.

[Audio_ElF]

Well they (Bowers and Wilkins) are launching new 700 series speakers early next week...

Interesting thought (maybe stirring) when the 800 series were launched they (at least in UK) were demoing them with top end Rotel not with Classe...

[Alaric]

I've not known Patrick Butler to be anything but straightforward and up front with us here. I'd be surprised to find out otherwise. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt on this unless/until some actual proof shows up.

[TomScrut]

In fairness he never said anything about them continuing in Canada. And he may not have been allowed to say anything about it either!

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[Alaric]

That's true, and I was prepared to excuse on the possibility that his employer has final say on what he can divulge. Be a shame if it's true, though.

[TomScrut]

That's true, and I was prepared to excuse on the possibility that his employer has final say on what he can divulge. Be a shame if it's true, though.

Certainly would be. I just don't think it's fair if (and nobody has done yet) he is berated as a result of things that may be beyond his control, ie not being able to say what is happening so can only circumnavigate questions

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[prk504]

Has Classé been closed? (rumour)

One of the managers at magnolia said that classe is getting rolled into rotel and will ultimately be closed. Not sure if this is just rumor or a known thing, but it makes sense considering the shared ownership and Classe stopping development on new products.

He said that at classe price range people usually go to McIntosh and that classe total sales last year were under $30M. If that's true I don't see how they can afford to keep the company going...assuming that all of this is true

Hopefully we will get classe sound at a rotel price.


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[Alaric]

I wouldn't pick McIntosh over Classe. While McIntosh is good gear, I think it is way overpriced, and it definitely has a "house sound", whereas Classe gear has always sounded more neutral. I have said "That sounds really good! What gear is that?" and the answer was "Classe". The other way is always "Oh, you must have McIntosh amps! Nice!" before seeing them. Nothing against McIntosh, it sounds great and their amps have always had a very "black" background to my ears. And the build quality has always been first rate, as well as resale value. But I found Classe to be a step up. Just my opinion, YMMV.

If the above rumor pans out I hope Rotel gets a higher tier line with the Classe gear rebadged, and keeping the Classe engineering staff.
I'll be glad when Patrick can tell us more. He's been a great member and resource here, and I for one look forward to his continued participation at the 'Guide.

[Audio_ElF]

One of the managers at magnolia said that classe is getting rolled into rotel and will ultimately be closed. Not sure if this is just rumor or a known thing, but it makes sense considering the shared ownership and Classe stopping development on new products.

Classe and Rotel DON'T have shared ownership. In many regions they have shared distribution channels and the two companies work closely* but Bowers and Wilkins Group do NOT own Rotel (they do own Classe). Rotel is a family owned Japanese company (http://rotel.com/en-gb/our-story).

Thats not to say that its impossible that Classe might not be being sold to Rotel as a "high end" brand or that they might work closely together to co-develop shared platforms. *The factory in Zhuhai, China manufacturers both brands.

[TomScrut]

Classe and Rotel DON'T have shared ownership. In many regions they have shared distribution channels and the two companies work closely* but Bowers and Wilkins Group do NOT own Rotel (they do own Classe). Rotel is a family owned Japanese company (http://rotel.com/en-gb/our-story).

Thats not to say that its impossible that Classe might not be being sold to Rotel as a "high end" brand or that they might work closely together to co-develop shared platforms. *The factory in Zhuhai, China manufacturers both brands.

Beat me to it....

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[HiFiGuy]

Bowers movedto their own facility in Zhuhai late 2016/ early 2017. Classe was included in that move. Not sure if any Classe product was actually built there

http://www.cityofzhuhai.com/2016-12/09/c_63515.htm

[BWLover]

So B&W isn't manufacturing speakers in the UK anymore?


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[Norm]

My understanding is B&W's ROC factories build the entry and mid level speakers with the high end models made in the UK.

[Audio_ElF]

So B&W isn't manufacturing speakers in the UK anymore?

The 800 series is still built in the U.K. afaik. But all the rest in China.

[TomScrut]

The 800 series is still built in the U.K. afaik. But all the rest in China.

800, CT800 and Nautilus I think

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[HiFiGuy]

From what I've heard the Montreal office is being closed next week, with whatever remains being sold locally or shipped somewhere. If anyone buys Classe it will be the name only.

[Alaric]

I hope Patrick is still employed.

[TomScrut]

I hope Patrick is still employed.

I didn't think he worked for Classe anyway?

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[Alaric]

True, but with all the changes and belt tightening going on I'd hate for him to be another victim.

[Ovation]

Seems I overestimated the local media impact of a closure for Classe would have in the Montreal region when I made my comment upthread a few months ago. I guess no one is immune to the capricious nature of the market--smaller, niche companies less so. Nearly 40 years is not a bad run (compared to other industries, like restaurants/bars, it's an eternity). I hope the workforce manages to do well on the job market. At least, on that score, Quebec has its lowest unemployment figures in nearly 50 years. Still, a tough situation to live through.

[rompower]

If Classé Audio closes... GOOD! That company is going downhill... Service is horrible, they think they are the best in the world!

I have been able to compare A/B Bryston vs Classé and sorry but Classe.. I cannot believe the difference between the two products!

[TomScrut]

So does anybody actually know if anything has actually happened?

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[Ovation]

Nothing official that I could find but a bunch of references online to 6 October as the closing day.

[Alaric]

If Classé Audio closes... GOOD! That company is going downhill... Service is horrible, they think they are the best in the world!

I have been able to compare A/B Bryston vs Classé and sorry but Classe.. I cannot believe the difference between the two products!

Different sounding gear. I don't care for Bryston's "house sound". Always sounded dry and "digital" to me. Personal preference to be sure, but I much preferred the sound of Classe.

[Ricky22buk]

Please just ignore this post ! I have just realised it has been posted on another thread ! Sorry !