CP 800 DLNA streaming

[wildtangent]

Wildtangent,

I understand you for 80 %.

1. You stream from PC using Jriver. I understand that. I expect your music is on NAS, or local HD. You control on sofa via Gizmo. I expect you transport digital signal to CP via spif or usb. So I dont understand DNLA here. This is an alternative to my option 2.

2. Bubble UPnP is not available for IOS, so I cannot Judge or use on my IPad or IPhone. Nevertheless is not clear where and what type and where your server is running.

What I would expect is that Classe would have written a clear story how to use a NAS (in my case Synology, could be QNAP or other brand) as server and how to control the server via IOS or Android app.

Although Iám far from being digital stupid..... I dont see it!!

My music is currently on a D-Link NAS with some other content on a USB external hard disk attached to a Windows 7 PC. JRiver is on the PC as well.
I have an Android tablet (Google Nexus 7)
The CP800 is connected by Ethernet to the LAN, USB is not connected.
JRiver is setup to share its library on the network with DLNA see the screen shot.
There is a screen shot of the BubbleUPnP apps 'devices page' showing all of the renderers and libraries available. Simply pick the renderer you want the music to come out of and the library you want the music to come from. In this case the local renderer is the tablet, RK1 is the PC, or The Main CP800. The Libraries are the Local Library on the tablet, PC - RK1 or the Natasha the NAS drive.

Go to the library tab and pick your music, press play.
There are two screen shots of the CP800 showing DLNA playback at 96K with a FLAC file and 192K with a WAV. Sounds as good as the USB connection.

There are DLNA apps for the iThings, you need to search the store. By the way, not that I'm pushing Android but the Nexus 7 32GB is C$269.00 about half what an iPad would cost.

[gerardhn]

Wildtangent,

My DLNA is working now! .. Happy!

On synology NAS, turn on DS audio.
Load IOS app and there you go!

Listening now.

[gerardhn]

That classe remote app, stays in demo mode? What is the story behind that????

[gerardhn]

I had already available in my tool box.

Acoustic Revive lan isolator RLI - 1.

Brings quality of sound one step higher ... Also for cp 800.

Not cheap, but worth the investment, gives the high end magic. See their website, and or google. I imported it directly from japan via ebay. Goes very well.
(Pls no discussions how possible, ethernet =ethernet, streaming is simple, cat 5 is enough, voodoo, i dont react on that.)

[gerardhn]

Hi,

Although very quiet on the forum, i continue my experiences.

1. ethernet port. With synology NAS, only synology software DS audioworks properly, although very slow!. Other software, in conjunction,with logitech media server, is not working. Dont understand why classe doesnot have their app, like naim. linn, ps audio...

2. Went back to usb input with logitech touch feeding it. FAR superior to direct streaming. Dont why, but software implementation of usb much much better, than the ethernet. Maybe new thing for classe??. Let me put me it clear: usb streaming with new digital input board makes the classe cp 800 really magic. With ethernet "so, so"

Any other experiences??

[leo2498]

Hi,

Although very quiet on the forum, i continue my experiences.

1. ethernet port. With synology NAS, only synology software DS audioworks properly, although very slow!. Other software, in conjunction,with logitech media server, is not working. Dont understand why classe doesnot have their app, like naim. linn, ps audio...

2. Went back to usb input with logitech touch feeding it. FAR superior to direct streaming. Dont why, but software implementation of usb much much better, than the ethernet. Maybe new thing for classe??. Let me put me it clear: usb streaming with new digital input board makes the classe cp 800 really magic. With ethernet "so, so"

Any other experiences??

I'm testing the ethernet option with both system airplay lossless format and DLNA with 92KHz file, to my ears is very difficult hear any difference with both options. it sound equally good if you ask to me about usb I can't hear any improvement with this input. I think classe have using all its inputs in the same way, I assume that they filter any jitter that it have and feed directly to the DAC.

The only issue that I have is with my router because sometime the sound was stopped while it was playing, I´m using ethernet conection for both element (my laptop and the CP800) to avoid this problem.

[gerardhn]

Some news, findings.
I still find find usb input superior. (Ca 2300, 802di). More impact, more power, more secret revealing.
What we lack is an app from classe like psaudio, pioneer, cambridge, marantz did for their streamers. Why there is no classe app for streaming!?....
Lets continue. How can we get our desired usb signal, quality signal?. We can use logitech streamer, with EDO modification, LMS on NAS. Ipeng on ipad. Works perfect.
Secondly we can use pc with dedidicated program like jriver, jplay. Works perfect.

For those who like LMS, Ipeng, i found other no cost working solution!

Install of course usb 2.0 drivers from classe website.
Run LMS on NAS. control : lms under windows, ipeng under ios.
Now install squeezelite, a 100 % emulator of logitech touch on pc/laptop.
Find out the number where the usb is (run -l option) , run -o that number. (Details see google and fora).
Ipeng recogizes squeezelite as player, there you go.!

I understand my language is bit direct, meant for those who are in this subject. If you areinterested, pls study a bit. Or ask question.
Anyway this cost nothing, or small money for the ipeng app, gives ultimate comfort and sound quality.
Feedback appriciated!

[joshua]

Thanks for the info. I have followed your posts with interest since I am trying to play music from my NAS (QNAP H210) to the CP-800 while awaiting to the revision 2 in order to connect directly the NAS to the Classe. I have run into problems playing the music directly from the NAS and using the Jriver with the JRemote controller from an i-pad.
I point JRiver's library to the MyNas (name of the NAS) but it does not recognize it and I am not sure why.
What is the role of BubbleUpnP in your set up? I was under the impression that JRemote would suffice.
If you could give me any advice, I would appreciate it. Obviously I am not very savvy in the computer-music arena but failing in something as simple as playing music from the NAS using JRiver and leaving the PC out of the loop is bothersome. My ultimate goal is to be able to play NAS to Classe via a controller that will work with the NAS.

Your advice would be appreciated

[gerardhn]

Dear Joshua,

I cannot get your problem, any way welcome.
I notice that not so many people are busy with this subject. OK, I hope the "planet" is happy withmy findings.
Setting: Cp800 rev2 , streaming. I have synology NAS. I concentrate now on stability and comfort,

1. USB.

1a. Good and stable is Logitech touch. With EDO usb out. Perfect with ipeng. 100% stable. No hickups. NO Hi res problems
2 PC with usb out.
2a PC with squeezelite.
Can give strange hanging on going to next track. chance 1:50
2b. PC with Jriver
Although this is a famous ****** reviewed program, I was shocked by it. (not on sound quality).
I arranged my music collection in room on the wall or on nAS:

Artist (main dir)
Year - name album (sub dir)


100% logical to me, simple

for me the so called "meta data" are less important, nice to have . NOt above my structure. The matadata are 100 variables for a database, of secondary importance to listen to a CD that you just want grab and listen to. P

What happens? Jriver make their business on managing these metadata. So your whole collection ends messed up in "their" ilbrary. everything is different sorted. Bloody shame. Without your metadata 100% perfect you get big big problems, and who cares about metadata?????.. leave it.

Why was it so difficult to just import and show original windows structure?

Also jiver ios app puts all albums of 1 band sorted on alphabet (instead of year) etc etc. It just does want you dont ask.

This "powerfull program" as often called in less critical reviews has overeaten themselves in their metadata world
So also what happens when playing with it ?? ... "program not responding" in windows terms

Just to summarize :

i only want to see

artist

year - album name

as defined in the basis windows directory, without being a programmer. That was too difficult.


3. ethernet directly

3a DS audio + app

works actually relatively good.

at least never hanging!
disadvantage: scrolling slow on iphone.
Gapless not understood (my default check Pink Floyd The Wall track 1->2 and many other tracks on that album) get some time extra!!, so becomes "unlistable" , as many other albums become strange beacause of time between time between tracks changes. HOW CAN YOU PUT THIS ON THE MARKET?



I ám disappointed. 2014. software.

[windshear]

Hi gerardhn, I need to correct you about the short comings in Jriver. It actually allows you to configure what is displayed and how you display it, for the metadata. It requires a bit of time as well as a bit of playing around, it is very flexible, so much so that I find it maybe too complicated with all the options available, hence staying away from that option. I did not know Jriver make an ios app. I use a third party app called Jremote and yes it does have its issues but once again it will only display what I have configured in Jriver. I have not bothered changing the defaults in Jriver as it does require some work and thus live with the problems. One day I will make the effort. Otherwise I suggest using their wikipage or the forum to solve what troubles you. The information is all there.

[TomScrut]

Hi gerardhn, I need to correct you about the short comings in Jriver. It actually allows you to configure what is displayed and how you display it, for the metadata. It requires a bit of time as well as a bit of playing around, it is very flexible, so much so that I find it maybe too complicated with all the options available, hence staying away from that option. I did not know Jriver make an ios app. I use a third party app called Jremote and yes it does have its issues but once again it will only display what I have configured in Jriver. I have not bothered changing the defaults in Jriver as it does require some work and thus live with the problems. One day I will make the effort. Otherwise I suggest using their wikipage or the forum to solve what troubles you. The information is all there.

I set jRiver up exactly as I wanted it, just for Gizmo to not follow the same settings making all of it pointless!

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk

[windshear]

I cant comment about Gizmo and its operations as I believe its for an android device, I only have experience with ios and my ipad mini and Jremote.

[gerardhn]

Ok, Jriver works, but I find a bit too much metadata orientedand therefore complex. And while I sort my artist just in windows name. So "best of the 80's" or "B&W audiphile recording" is even good enough for me. Under the B, like a shelfr. In jiver you import from say 15 songs on such a cd 15 artist in your artist directory, you would never want to see as an artist your Arists directory. With say 10 of such cd's in your collection you have 150 unwanted artists popping up!

Enough about. Sounds fine!

[joshua]

CP 800 DLNA streaming

gerardhn and anyone else willing to:

I do not get your posts either. I don't know if it is my scant knowledge on the subject, the way you express yourself, the fact that most of the staff that you post is unrelated or all of the above. At any rate, my issue is very simple:

1. MY Music files are in a 2 TB hard drive in the computer tricked and dedicated to music playing. It is also in a NAS (QNAP H210, very silent) and I have a back back up in a 2TB USB portable hard drive.
2. The software is JRiver which, despite your criticisms, I find to be the best.
3. Via IPad and JRemote, I can control the playing and editing without the computer.
4. CP 800 is the renderer connected via USB to the computer.

MY CURRENT PROBLEM:
I do not know how to make JRiver to play from the NAS and not from the computer. The library in JRiver does not show the NAS music files. I do not want to change the music file destination to the NAS since I will continue ripping CD's to the computer hard drive and then copy them to the NAS.

As you can see, my problem is very simple and I am sure there is a simple solution to it. I don't seem to find it.

My goal:
1. Play music via JRiver directly from the NAS with the same set up that I have. I realize that since JRiver resides in the computer, I will need to have the computer on while playing music despite the fact that I will control it with IPad-based JRemote.

WHEN I HAVE THE CP 800 VERSION 2 INSTALLED:

1. Direct connection NAS to CP 800 via ethernet and computer turned off.
2. I do not know what controller I will use since JRiver will not be available (computer off).

[TomScrut]

Does JRiver show the nas in devices? You can then map it to a library, this is how I have it set. If I get chance later I will look at how I did it and post it on here

[gerardhn]

Joshua ,
that must be straightforward , easy to find , via file, library import, import single folder, browse to go to you NAS. If you cannot find your NAS there directly, you have an admin problem is my experience.

Check and be sure that you can enter your NAS music directory in windows explorer before you try to browse to it under JRMC.
Else try admin things, run as program admin, log as admin etc.


For my "metadata complaint" I show how with 2 attachments how I organized my directory (like physical shelf) in windows and in NAS. Default I would like to see back this windows structure In Jriver, not the metadata that are, or are not, are wrongly in the songs.
Artist are defined in my main directory. Album as year-album title.
Hope I i could help you with this.

[TomScrut]

It just picks mine up on upnp and I browse it etc through that.

[joshua]

Does JRiver show the nas in devices? You can then map it to a library, this is how I have it set. If I get chance later I will look at how I did it and post it on here

No, it does not. It only shows the back up hard drive in E: and explorer.
Under "audio" and "Files" I see Mynas (name of my nas) to get her with directory D (the hard drive of the computer where all my music is) and directory C where some music also resides.
I can play my music via Nas if I select on music>files Mynas only, which is fine.
The problem is that if I go Audio>Artists or any other choice to look for a particular CD, the files revert to a"all location" and then I see all music repeated (once from the D directory and once from the Mynas).
Perhaps the problem is the JRiver but it is odd that I am able to select Mynas from the Audio>Files but the program reverts to "all locations" when I click anything on the JRiver bar.....

I assume that I could delete the D: directory from the Audio Files in order to avoid duplication but I am reluctant to do so since I want to keep on ripping the music in the computer to Directory D: and from there copy it to Mynas and back it up to the external USB hard drive.

Tom, If you have the time and desire to help out, I would appreciate if not, I understand is difficult to explain these issues over e-mail particularly to individuals that are not computer savvy . Thanks

[TomScrut]

If I remember tomorrow night (so tomorrow day time presuming you are the other side of the Atlantic to me) I will take some screenshots of what mine looks like and does

[TomScrut]

I will post tomorrow as I dont have time tonight

[gerardhn]

something else that works.

1. synology nas , ethernet -> cp 800. Controlled ds audio on app or pc. Works fine, software not perfect (= bit slow), but can play without laptop/pc. Disadvantage no gapless play.

2 synology nas, usb cable -> cp 800. Same story, but gapless works!

So for those that can put Nas close to CP 800... 2 is an option. At least to experiment with.

[TomScrut]

Ds audio isn't fantastic if you like configuring how stuff shows up imo

[TomScrut]

Joshua,

On the main jRiver screen you have the playing now column to the left, it should say playing from main library, or whatever you have lacced your library. Expand that list and then select your nas. In the main screen there should be a button that says load library, that then uses the media server of your nas to index everything.

Hope this helps,

Tom

[joshua]

Thanks Tom. Indeed MyNas was there and I switched to it. All the music files were there but I run into another issue: unless I select in the Audio>Files of the main scree of JRiver MyNas ( it also contains an http:// directory from the network, I think), all the files appear as wav not as flac as they should and JRiver will not play them!!!!.
Very strange since I have never ripped anything in the wav format nor when I sep up the NAS to copy the music files I changed the format.

I am going to delete everything from the NAS and start from the beginning to see if I have better luck. Thanks.

[TomScrut]

It's probably because it accesses the media server on your nas which doesn't link directly to your music it goes through an indexing system on the nas. Also it sounds like you have transcoding on in your nas settings

[gerardhn]

Tom, I agree that DS audio is less suited "to configure how it show up". But it works, directly without extra hardware and for free.
And I said above, my NAS collection, is just a digital representation of how I had my CD's on the good old shelf.
So I select an artist (not even an "album artist" ) and than an album from him/her/them. And that is exactly what DS audio also shows..
It sq is also ok, btw.

[TomScrut]

Yeah I like it for use on my phone (for playing music on my phone not on the DS), I just wish it could be configured like the Synology Media Server.

[joshua]

I think that you are absolutely right. The software that came with the NAS and I installed is messing up several things with my PC setting and those of JRiver. I will try to figure out how to use the NAS a a simple storage site without any of the additional bells and whistles and see if I can play the music from directly from there even if I have to keep the PC on to use JRiver.

[TomScrut]

Can anybody confirm whether gapless playback occurs when using DLNA and BubbleUPNP? I presume the CP doesn't store the playlist itself but relies on the control app to push the next song to it?

Cheers,

Tom

[londoner]

A CP-800 streaming guide has been put up on the Classe website. It's currently on the front page but here's the link anyway:

http://www.classeaudio.com/delta/pdfs/2014/CP-800_Setup_Guide_Part2_5-14-14.pdf

[TomScrut]

Doesn't mention gapless though so I presume it doesn't do it

[TomScrut]

One thing you guys might find interesting is BubbleUPNP server. It allows a normal UPNP renderer to emulate an OpenHome renderer so you can have on device playlists etc rather than on controller playlists

[joshua]

CP800 link

Thanks for the link londoner. Something like that is what a bunch of us neophytes were waiting for...not that it will solve some other issues regarding the NAS configuration etc but it is a step in the right direction

[Stevebez]

Basic question

I'm a bit puzzled why one would need a PC to "manage" music files on a NAS for a unit like the CP-800. What is the point of having the CP-800 as a streamer when u need additonal interface of JRiver etc to stream and posisbly to have a PC on all the time to manage the traffic? Sorry for the basic question but seems like a waste.

I would have thought App for the CP-800 to play any music files available on the network without any additional interface? What am I missing here? I find the USB connection largely superfluous for me as all my music in on a network not a USB device. The USB device is also more likely to contain lower resolution / lossy files given space contraints - so I dont really get avenue this tbh.

Ethernet - NAS conenction allows for high quality lossless files (mostly space consideration, but also bandwidth). I could never fit my lossless library on any iPod and my librbary is not large by any means.

Any thoughts? Have I missed something?

EDIT:Having read the link above Seems PlugPlayer / MediaConnect will bypass the PC

[mjb]

I find the USB connection largely superfluous for me as all my music in on a network not a USB device. The USB device is also more likely to contain lower resolution / lossy files given space contraints - so I dont really get avenue this tbh.

I think the USB port is primarily a convenient way to attach your iPod - which could/might contain apple-lossless (ALC) files. Classé have done a lot of work on their USB interface (e.g., clocking stability), so it should actually sound very good.

[mjb]

From the CP-800-Brochure:

The USB connector on the front of the CP-800 is dedi- cated to Apple portable devices. An Apple authentication chip inside the CP-800 enables the digital connection for music and allows charging of the device. The CP-800 remote can also provide basic transport controls through this connection.

[joshua]

Tom: could you explain a bit more about the BubleUpnP?. It is the program to be installed on the NAS? Or do you use it simple as a controller from your tablet?. I was able to get the libraries and the NAS configuration under control and now my set up is very similar to the one that posted a while ago with the difference that my controller is Plug andPlay. The problem is that the Ipad where PP resides has to be on all the time since if it goes off or I use for something else the music stops. I would be willing to get an inexpensive tablet just for the exclusive use of music control although I still think that JRiver could come up with a version that could be installed in the NAS, it would be the best of both worlds: an optimal music server (JRiver) music server and a great controller (JRemote).

At any rate, if you could elaborate on the advantages of BubleUpnP, I would appreciate it.

[joshua]

Tom: could you explain a bit more about the BubleUpnP?. It is the program to be installed on the NAS? Or do you use it simple as a controller from your tablet?. I was able to get the libraries and the NAS configuration under control and now my set up is very similar to the one that posted a while ago with the difference that my controller is Plug andPlay. The problem is that the Ipad where PP resides has to be on all the time since if it goes off or I use for something else the music stops. I would be willing to get an inexpensive tablet just for the exclusive use of music control although I still think that JRiver could come up with a version that could be installed in the NAS, it would be the best of both worlds: an optimal music server (JRiver) music server and a great controller (JRemote).

At any rate, if you could elaborate on the advantages of BubleUpnP, I would appreciate it.

[TomScrut]

There are two programs, BubbleUPNP, and BubbleUPNP server. BubbleUPNP is a control app that can control uPnP/DLNA renderers and OpenHome renderers.

BubbleUPNP server installs to a NAS or PC to enable several things. It can allow your media servers to be accessed from outside the local network using BubbleUPNP app on your phone, and it can act as a middle man between a uPnP/DLNA renderer and a OpenHome controller to allow the extra functions that OpenHome fetches to the table such as on device playlists and (where supported) gapless playback

[joshua]

Thanks. So, let me see if I got it: the control probably will not have any advantage over the PlugPlayer (PP) that I currently use (unless it allows me to control even when the tablet goes into sleep mode). So if there is no difference than your BubbleUpnP other than the target systems (iDevice vs. Android). The question then is what would be the BubbleUPnP server advantage?. What additional features do I get by installing the server on the NAS that I do not have now? ( I don't need to access my files outside of the local network). I do not know what an OpenHome is. The PP devise acts as a player and although it does not have the flexibility of a JRiver, I can create playlists.

I am not quite sure how all these servers/players interact although I assume that if you installed the server in the NAS is because it gives you more flexibility at the time of controlling, am I correct?. Thanks.

[TomScrut]

Because if you create a playlist on plugplayer, it stays on the phone/tablet so if you turn it off when the song finishes it will stop playing as the controller pushes what song is needed next when it is needed rather than pushing the whole playlist to the CP800 for it to play as it feels. This is how a Linn DS works if you are familiar with them, whatever controller you access it with will have the same playlist as it is on the DS not the controller. The BubbleUPNP server makes a normal uPNP renderer act like this, as it stores the playlist as sent from the controller and pushes songs one by one as needed to the renderer. For stuff that supports playlists such as JRMC it can send the next song to to allow gapless playback. But if you try and control JRMC like this on its own without the BubbleUPNP server it doesn't work I dont think.

[joshua]

Thanks. I think I am getting an idea of how all interacts. I will play a bit with the various options and see what works best. I have the feeling that at the end I will end up where I started using JRiver via JRemote, playing from the NAS to the CP800 with the computer on to make JRiver available. It seems that both JRiver server and controller offer the most for what I want to do.

[TomScrut]

I use BubbleDS (it's slightly easier to use than BubbleUPNP) to control a BubbleUPNP Server OpenHome renderer to control JRMC on my NUC which has my CP800 connected to it. I wanted to use Gizmo to control it directly to begin with but the menus for selecting music can't be configured like I have my NAS media server so I opted for using BubbleDS which I used to use with my DS and having BubbleUPNP server as a middle man.

[joshua]

Your last message totally confused me. Does BubbleDS work in other renderers than Linn systems?. If your NAS music files are a copy of your NUC files as configured by JRMC, why can't you using the JRemote via GIzmo control and select your music playlist? I have no problems using JRMC and controller, playing and configuring playlist, even editing files from the JRemote as long as the CP is on.
I know I am missing something.

[Thumper]

JRiver is selling an Intel NUC, preloaded with JRiver. Might make a nice unit for those who don't want their main PC always running. http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=89084.0

http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Id