Cheap upgrade: replace fuse! (ca 2300)

[gerardhn]

Based upon serious reviews I decided to go for it and I replaced my CA 2300 standard fuse (6,3 A) for a Furutech.

I can recommend it for 100%!

THE marlan head 802di definetely makes a big jump. Voices more separated, really!
Sound becomes very relaxed as a whole.
Drums give bigger kick effect.
But biggest effect is a tremendous 3 d tonal jump.

Pls try!

Note:
1. I did not open the amp to check for more fuse.
2. They sell for 52 euro.
3. I checked cp 800. This has different holder, which contains 2 fuses .....
4. During typing this, improvement shockes me!

Good luck with my tip.

[gerardhn]

Played other cd,s I know well.
Effect is amazing. Replacement to Furutech fuse can be seen as component upgrade.
I feel a bit Albert Einstein now, who made great discovery!!!! Haha.

[style]

Hi gerardhn,

all is ok ? longtime without your news...

you have changed the original fuse of the ca2300 the a new "Furutech"? and this job gice you so big satisfaction?

is a fuse from 6,3 Amp.?? is not the dimension? i think that the ca2300 have a 12 Amper or bigger inside!

whit what for a model you have replace the original fuse (the code of the product please),

greetings Style

[gerardhn]

Hi Style,

Iám fine.

No the amp is 6,3 A its dimension 5 *20 mm.

(with these data you can easily find it).

Buy, big improvement!

[style]

Hoi,
altijd prettigen dagen in Nederland?
ja zecker.

I go try why a friend have changed the fuse intho a amplifier from MarkL and have too this improvement.

wehn I had the Ssp800 with a software upgrade my fuse was ko and I have replace it with a other.

I go search a now fuse and i give my new.
(a store near my have Padis fuse in rhodium -> around 40€. I try with so one if the Furutech are not available)
I call my contact at the Classe Switzerland for a question fuse into the Cp800)

groeten Style

[gerardhn]

Style, Padis is not Furutech. Furutech seems the best according people who tried. Price difference to Padis is 100 % explainable.
Second is Hifi Tuning fuse.
I bought them from the Furutech webshop here in NL. Iam sure they will send also to CH if CH has no shop or dealer.

Style: pls buy the Furutech. I know you have the same stereo so you can confirm what I say. Than we have same reference point.


CA has one only fuse, CP has two at the back. Means to my opinion replace 2 the fuses. I wait a few months and than will catch that improvement.

[madmac]

I'm sorry but something's wrong here!!. A fuse is a fuse and does what a fuse does.....protects the equipment. I have no idea how a fuse on a unit can effect it's audio performance???!!!. It either passes the power or it doesn't right??!!.

Sound off folks......because......I don't get it??!!.

[wkhanna]

I see the mention of the ‘Marlin’ head 802Di.
The resolution of these speakers is a world apart from 95% of anything else.
V minor changes in a system with this level of performance are more easily noticed by the listener.

[gerardhn]

Madmac,

This type of wondering has of course been wondered many times. (like cables, connectors, resistors, capacitators etcetera ).

Normal fuse = spiral wounded thing.
Audigrade fuse = straight, demped, rhodium caps, deep cooled and demagnetized.

So obviously normal fuse might protect well, but gives unwanted electrical side effects. Simple. It is in the signal path.


Wkhanna.

Also 803/804 DI would certainly show the difference...

[stuofsci02]

Is the fuse on the power side or on the output to the speakers? I assume the power side because of its small amp rating.

[wkhanna]

Wkhanna.

Also 803/804 DI would certainly show the difference...

No protest from me. :W

Those will also be in upper echelon of V high performance speakers capable of revealing such subtle nuance.

[wkhanna]

Is the fuse on the power side or on the output to the speakers? I assume the power side because of its small amp rating.

I suspect the new fuse replaced the OEM component at the main power input circuit to the amplifier.

[gerardhn]

Stuofsci and others

Small rating? 6,3 Amp? @ 230v? Thats almost 1,5 kW!

There no more (from outside reachable) fuses. Maybe there are fuses to speakers (dont believe that) but than i must open amp to check.

But my purpose of this thread is: dont discuss so much whether "it is big or small" "whether i can believe à simple fuse can do something" take your advantage and buy such simple thing!

[stuofsci02]

Stuofsci and others

Small rating? 6,3 Amp? @ 230v? Thats almost 1,5 kW!

Yes, but 6.3A would be far to small for the output to the speakers...

[slauten]

Yes, but 6.3A would be far to small for the output to the speakers...

6.3 amp fuse is correct for CA2300 running on 220/230/240 volts. That's directly from Classe owners manual. If running on 120 volts fuse size is 12 amps. Fuses used are time delay, i.e. they can handle peaks without blowing for short periods of time. Keep in mind on 240 volts in Europe...is double of typical USA voltage @ 120 volts, therefore amps are double.

In the USA...typical residential circuits for wall outlets are rated at 15 amps, up to 20 amps. In most cases you can get by with a Classe amp like the CA2300, a preamp, and a cd player, plus a decent sub woofer (with it's own amp built in) all on the same circuit without tripping the circuit breaker. Rarely do any of us crank up the system that maxes out the system to the extent that blows a circuit breaker or fuse.

On my system I have 2 CAM 400 amps, 1 CA-5200 amp, SSP-800, CP800, Blue Ray player, CD player tied into B&W 803 D2, B&W center, plus lots of surrounds, and a Velodyne sub. Have 2 20 amp circuits on 120 volts feeding them. Never had an issue with breakers tripping.

I do plan to check out fuse options.

See Ya,
Steve

[gerardhn]

Hi Slauten,

I read the value from the fuse itself. (with magnifying glas).
To replace all those fuses, is some money. Us fuses also slightly more expensive because of "bigger".
But ... If you can spend so much on amps.... Fuses are small money always....

[style]

Hi,

today received the new fuse. I give fast my news.

groet Style
-----

a fuse is NOT only to protect a ampli! is like say a cable is only to connect the speakers (or others cables..)
in EU we have a Great 220V, much much better vs. the 120V delivered in Usa...

[slauten]

Interesting discussion-style mentions the fuse is not to protect the amp. That's not totally correct in my opinion. In most cases he would be right. Let me explain:

Circuit breakers are there to protect the wire, not what's plugged into the outlet. The wire is sized and designed to carry up to a "maximum amount of amps/current" for which it is designed. Therefore the point at which a circuit breaker will trip is much higher than whats typically plugged into the outlet, unless a bunch of items are on the circuit. In most cases each circuit has multiple outlets in the house on it.

Therefore most items plugged into an outlet use less amps/current than what the circuit can handle...meaning the "amplifier" in this discussion uses a 6.3 amp time delay fuse in Europe, or in the USA 12 amp fuse. The circuit into which the amplifier is plugged into is typically able to handle 15amps-20amps depending on wire and circuit breaker size. I'm not sure in Europe since they are on 220 volts if the circuit breaker/ or main fuse can handle 10 amps, or if it's larger maybe 20 amps? The point I'm making is the circuit feeding the amplifier won't trip the breaker before the amplifier is damaged...therefore the fuse in the amplifier is there to mainly protect the amplifier itself because the point at which the circuit breaker or circuit fuse would blow is well above the amplifier's max over current protection.

While we are discussing fuses and wires. I'm not 100% certain an upgraded fuse will make a system sound better...but even if it doesn't I am sure better fuses provide better protection for the equipment. I'm also sure that better metals conduct current better than others, i.e. typical fuse usually has inexpensive end caps vs. better fuses use copper, gold, or whatever "super" metal that works better. In addition better fuses typically use better fuse element. Most inexpensive fuses use lead that melts when it reaches it max current protection. Regardless of any sound improvement...I believe that spending $50-$100 on a fuse to protect an item costing thousands of dollars makes sense.

No doubt others don't feel that way. My question to them would be: Do you feel lucky?

See Ya,
Steve

[stuofsci02]

I think this falls into the same category of "can a 3 ft power cable make a difference"...

I am sorry for having my doubts, but OP makes this sound like the fuse completely changed his system. At this level to get this kind of dramatic improvement is huge even when changing amps etc.

To be able to hear a change of a passive component on the pre-transformer side of the AMP is quite a stretch to begin with. How does one explain this?

[style]

Dont woory go for your way.

I say what do and what is a fake! :W

A Classe is too a amplifier like a "sanyo" or a "SoundforYou"....the cheap piece make the difference..... :T

style

[Srrndhound]

Interesting discussion-style mentions the fuse is not to protect the amp. That's not totally correct in my opinion.

Well, to be precise, that is not what he said. His quote: >>a fuse is NOT only to protect a ampli!<< That means it is there for protection, but something else that was not specified. Not sure what that could be, though.

I agree with you that a fuse is only for protection. It is a simple test: If there were no need for protection, would the fuse be there? No. So that is its only purpose.

Same question can be applied to speaker cables. If speakers could work without cables, would they be in the system? No. So their purpose is simply to connect A to B.

Of course, cable and fuses need to do their jobs well, so many factors of their performance come into play that result from correct design choices.

While we are discussing fuses and wires. I'm not 100% certain an upgraded fuse will make a system sound better...

An AC mains fuse will not affect sound quality until it is blown. Then the effect becomes quite audible. :W

but even if it doesn't I am sure better fuses provide better protection for the equipment. I'm also sure that better metals conduct current better than others, i.e. typical fuse usually has inexpensive end caps vs. better fuses use copper, gold, or whatever "super" metal that works better. In addition better fuses typically use better fuse element. Most inexpensive fuses use lead that melts when it reaches it max current protection.

The cost of the components of a fuse have little to do with whether that fuse meets its design criteria. These metallurgical aspects you list may indeed exist, but their manifestations in how they conduct current prior to opening the circuit pale in significance compared to what is going on in the miles of copper between the AC outlet and the power company. If the sound of the amplifier is affected by the mains fuse, that is one poorly designed amp, and would be materially affected by variations and noise in the AC source that happen regularly.

Regardless of any sound improvement...I believe that spending $50-$100 on a fuse to protect an item costing thousands of dollars makes sense.

Fuse cost aside, that's why it makes sense to invest in proper surge protection. Much better return on investment than fuse jewelry.

[slauten]

Quote" The cost of the components of a fuse have little to do with whether that fuse meets its design criteria. These metallurgical aspects you list may indeed exist, but their manifestations in how they conduct current prior to opening the circuit pale in significance compared to what is going on in the miles of copper between the AC outlet and the power company.If the sound of the amplifier is affected by the mains fuse."

Actually-copper is used rarely in transmitting mains power to a subdivision or neighborhood, or even a office building. Cost is the main factor.
If you look at any utility pole I doubt you see copper, you might see steel or aluminum and the wires are not insulated! All kinds of noise floating around on those lines. The typical power line in the USA has 4,160 volts before it's reduced to120 volts per power line on residential. Typical home has 2 legs of 120 volt plus a neutral wire, and a ground wire. Common science classes teach that various metals conduct volts and amps better other types of metal. Cost almost always dictates what type of metal is used to convey electricity, along with weight, insulation, flexibility. They use 4,160 volts or higher (11,000 volts on big steel main power poles) on main power lines to save on wire size, and those lines are not insulated to save weight, plus the size of insulation needed would be incredible on voltage this high. I've personally worked on equipment running on 4,160 volts...you have to use special gloves and meters or it will kill you.

Bottom line is better metal type and purity conducts electricity better. Some metals oxidize easily, i.e. aluminum wire which was used in many homes and buildings to save on costs. Aluminum, was a bad choice to be used on switches and outlets because it oxidizes, and will eventually expand/contract to the point where connections get loose and can cause fires.

Some metals make better fuses than others because they conduct electricity better with less resistance. In addition the fuse element is directly impacted by what is used. I am 100% positive that some fuses are better than others at protecting equipment of any type! Some fuses can blow too soon, or too late, are effected by temperature too. In fact what causes a fuse to blow is mainly temperature. As the current load increases the metal warms up...until it gets warm enough to melt. Just because a fuse costs more does not make it better, the materials used, and how the fuse is made is what is important. I've replaced thousands of fuses over my career and promise that better fuses for what I do...air conditioning and heating are worth the money.

Compared to a standard fuse, which might cost a few dollars, possibly less; than a high end audio fuse costing $50.00...is there $50.00 worth of value there? Probably not, but I treat a fuse like insurance. I think better coverage is more peace of mind...that's what matters most if my audio product malfunctions and the piece of equipment cost thousands of dollars...protecting it with a better fuse makes sense. How much do you spend? That's up to you. I have not done much research on the audio fuse options out there to compare them yet. However I do feel what I have seen has merit, and most of them do use copper with a special coating on it.


Fuse cost aside,:
Quote" That's why it makes sense to invest in proper surge protection. Much better return on investment than fuse jewelry.[/QUOTE].

The definition of proper surge protection is much more open to debate than fuses. Do you buy a $50 surge suppressor or a $2,000 dollar one? Mixed within that debate is how the surge suppressor goes about protecting the equipment. Within that debate is do you use a "power conditioner" or "power regenerator"? I lean towards regeneration because I know that the power is dirty, and varies widely depending on time of day and season. In Texas we see lots of brown outs. A surge suppressor won't do a thing for you with a brown out! In my opinion low voltage can harm audio equipment much faster than a power surge.

Between my house and my neighbors house a few years ago we had a lightning strike. Big enough to turn remote controlled toys on! It took out most of the electronics in the home and they were plugged into the typical $25-$50 surge protector. They did nothing for him! if you take a direct hit of lightning near your home most surge protectors can react quick enough to help. There are exceptions but you get into the high end stuff. FYI-most surges come from telephone lines, cable TV connections when power strikes telephone poles that also have the power lines on them along with the cable TV lines too.

The lightning strike that hit between the homes took out most of my neighbors electronics but minor damage to my home. Why? I have surge protection on my cable/telephone/Verizon Fios lines. In addition my standard electronics have good surge protection costing about $200 each. My high end audio uses PS Audio P1 to regenerate power at a steady 120 volts of clean power for the entire system and a PS Audio Powerplay 9000 to protect the preamps, cd player, etc except for the amps.

I know there will be lots of debate on this subject. Just like many other topics that discuss expensive watches, cars, etc. on other forums. My opinions are based on personal experience of working in HVAC, Electrical, and Plumbing on residential and commerce for over 40 yearsl Many of those systems have high end automation, security, and energy management controls.

See Ya,
Steve

[Srrndhound]

Some metals make better fuses than others because they conduct electricity better with less resistance. In addition the fuse element is directly impacted by what is used. I am 100% positive that some fuses are better than others at protecting equipment of any type! Some fuses can blow too soon, or too late, are effected by temperature too.

All true. These issues are for the fuse engineer to consider, and the final characteristics of the fuse for the product designer to consider. Fuse specifications are quite detailed and complex for anyone interested. Do we know the fuse requirements better than the product designer? If we use a substitute, can we know for sure we have not taken a risk? The simple volt/amp rating is not how one determines fuse protection, as that does not reflect overcurrent vs. time issues.

In fact what causes a fuse to blow is mainly temperature. As the current load increases the metal warms up...until it gets warm enough to melt.

That is not only the main reason, it is the only reason.

Just because a fuse costs more does not make it better, the materials used, and how the fuse is made is what is important. I've replaced thousands of fuses over my career and promise that better fuses for what I do...air conditioning and heating are worth the money.

All true, but we are not concerned here with fuse design issues leading to fuse malfunction.

Compared to a standard fuse, which might cost a few dollars, possibly less; than a high end audio fuse costing $50.00...is there $50.00 worth of value there? Probably not, but I treat a fuse like insurance. I think better coverage is more peace of mind...that's what matters most if my audio product malfunctions and the piece of equipment cost thousands of dollars...protecting it with a better fuse makes sense. How much do you spend? That's up to you. I have not done much research on the audio fuse options out there to compare them yet. However I do feel what I have seen has merit, and most of them do use copper with a special coating on it.

How do you know coated copper offers any more protection to the gear than the original fuse? The alleged reason for the coated copper and whatnot plating being aimed at sound quality, not fuse protection characteristics. Is the fuse faster? Not good, as that could lead to unnecessary replacements. Is the fuse slower? Not good, as that reduces protection. How replacing a proper fuse with a bling-fuse designer substitute whose credentials must seriously be questioned on the face of ridiculous claims like "it sounds better" brings peace of mind, I do not understand.

The definition of proper surge protection is much more open to debate than fuses.

I totally agree. The best fuse is obviously the one provided by the manufacturer (especially if you ever plan to exercise the warranty), whereas surge protection is a wholly separate appliance in the equation, with very little to do with the details of amplifier design or sound quality. I am not wanting to discuss which surge protection is best, only that having it is better than not having it. Thank you for the first-hand testimony that proper surge protection brings substantial value, that reinforces my point that this is a much better way to spend money in the AC path than designer fuses.

[wkhanna]

......the final characteristics of the fuse for the product designer to consider. ....... Do we know the fuse requirements better than the product designer?

.....The best fuse is obviously the one provided by the manufacturer .....

Only to pose a counter-point, every & each single component in a commercially offered audio device is ultimately governed by a price point. Regardless of quality and performance, compromise is the order of the day. They can always make it better, but will the ‘market’ find value at the price the where the product is offered?

I have worked in product R&D, design, manufacturing & quality assurance. As the industry saying goes, ‘if it were up to the designers and engineers, nothing would ever make it to market. They always want to make it better and more expensive.’ :W

[slauten]

All true. These issues are for the fuse engineer to consider, and the final characteristics of the fuse for the product designer to consider. Fuse specifications are quite detailed and complex for anyone interested. Do we know the fuse requirements better than the product designer? If we use a substitute, can we know for sure we have not taken a risk? The simple volt/amp rating is not how one determines fuse protection, as that does not reflect overcurrent vs. time issues.

I disagreee-that's like saying a car manufacturer saying all tires are equal or can't be changed for better performance, or a high performance car can't be made better. Even Dave Nauber with Classe said they use the most cost effect part that allows them to reach the performance goal. There are many instances where a more robust capacitor, resistor, wire, or screw could make something better but may not provide enough difference to be worth the cost to the manufacturer. As Dave said: "this is not a cost without limit product like the Omega series". I've not said the cost is worth it, I did say a better fuse can be built. What separates many audio products is "over engineered" robustness that provides years of performance vs. something that meets the specifications but does not exceed expectations.

Another great example is electric extension cords. There are lots of 25' cords with costs that vary from $10.00 to a $100.00. All are rated for 10 amps, all use similar designed plugs. One last a few years another lasts 20 years. you imply nobody can make a better fuse. That's wrong!

That is not only the main reason, it is the only reason. Glad we agree on something!

All true, but we are not concerned here with fuse design issues leading to fuse malfunction. You may not be but some of us are.

How do you know coated copper offers any more protection to the gear than the original fuse? The alleged reason for the coated copper and whatnot plating being aimed at sound quality, not fuse protection characteristics. Is the fuse faster? Not good, as that could lead to unnecessary replacements. Is the fuse slower? Not good, as that reduces protection. How replacing a proper fuse with a bling-fuse designer substitute whose credentials must seriously be questioned on the face of ridiculous claims like "it sounds better" brings peace of mind, I do not understand. Without getting into mathematical figures I feel very comfortable in saying a fuse can be engineered better than the standard fuse supplied by the manufacturer. I'm not saying it will sound better (it could) but I am saying a fuse can be made better that will react:"better" within the range/time it is designed for and can provide better peace of mind from a protection point of view. In some cases reacting milliseconds faster could provide better protection, in other cases not blowing as fast could prevent nuisance trips. I really don't understand your position on this, it's like saying the cheapest 20 amp circuit breaker is just as good as one that uses better materials.

I totally agree. The best fuse is obviously the one provided by the manufacturer (especially if you ever plan to exercise the warranty), whereas surge protection is a wholly separate appliance in the equation, with very little to do with the details of amplifier design or sound quality. I disagree that the "best fuse" is the one that comes from the manufacturer. After market fuses can be better (not all are) depending on how it's made. For the sake of discussion the OEM fuse blows. Are you going to order one from Classe or the manufacturer or find a compatible fuse? No doubt the cause of the fuse blowing needs to be determined but there are plenty of cases where it's the circuit feeding the amp... causes the fuse in the amp to blow, i.e. loose wire in circuit, wall socket going bad, etc.

I am not wanting to discuss which surge protection is best, only that having it is better than not having it. Thank you for the first-hand testimony that proper surge protection brings substantial value, that reinforces my point that this is a much better way to spend money in the AC path than designer fuses.

If you have a fixed budget I'm not sure if I agree with you. A $50 fuse could be better than a $50 surge protector. Given the choice of picking just one: buying quality surge protection or quality power regeneration I pick regeneration.

Best Regards,

Steve

[Srrndhound]

Only to pose a counter-point, every & each single component in a commercially offered audio device is ultimately governed by a price point. Regardless of quality and performance, compromise is the order of the day. They can always make it better, but will the ‘market’ find value at the price the where the product is offered?

I fully agree. But here the issue of "better" started on the basis of sound quality. Are we to expand the definition to include longevity? My CAV150 is the oldest (>10 years) Classe gear I have and no fuses have worn out due to age.

I have worked in product R&D, design, manufacturing & quality assurance.

Me too.

As the industry saying goes, ‘if it were up to the designers and engineers, nothing would ever make it to market. They always want to make it better and more expensive.’ :W

There is another definition of quality that is often overlooked: fitness for use. The opens the door to the best quality choice not necessarily being the most expensive, or embodying attributes that are outside the scope of interest.

[Srrndhound]

I disagree-that's like saying a car manufacturer saying all tires are equal or can't be changed for better performance, or a high performance car can't be made better.

No, it’s not the same thing at all. Replacing tires can make a huge difference in car performance (good, bad, or a mix of tradeoffs). In contrast, replacing one proper fuse with any other properly specified fuse will make no difference in sound quality whatsoever. Instead of tires, a better analogy would be replacing the circuit breaker in the service panel.

Another great example is electric extension cords. There are lots of 25' cords with costs that vary from $10.00 to a $100.00. All are rated for 10 amps, all use similar designed plugs. One last a few years another lasts 20 years. you imply nobody can make a better fuse. That's wrong!

Which of those power cords sounds better?

I never said that different fuses could not have different lifespans, only that (aside from AC units and older BMWs :B ), fuse lifespan is a non-issue, particularly as lifespan has no relation to sound quality, which is the one and only reason that has been set forth to replace the Classe amplifier mains fuses.

You may not be but some of us are.

Fuse malfunction/longevity was not mentioned by the OP, only sound quality. Shall we do him the courtesy of staying on topic?

I disagree that the "best fuse" is the one that comes from the manufacturer. After market fuses can be better (not all are) depending on how it's made.

Even though I suspect your definition of "best fuse" does not include sound quality, I would still like to know the specific construction criteria that characterize a better mains fuse for our Classe gear. Please be specific. Thanks!

For the sake of discussion the OEM fuse blows. Are you going to order one from Classe or the manufacturer or find a compatible fuse?

On the rare occasion I have needed them, I buy the same fuses, but not from Classe. They are inexpensive and readily available.

If you have a fixed budget I'm not sure if I agree with you. A $50 fuse could be better than a $50 surge protector.

Please describe the characteristics of the $50 fuse that offer enhanced protection in any degree than the OEM fuse, let alone better than a $50 surge protector.

Given the choice of picking just one: buying quality surge protection or quality power regeneration I pick regeneration.

Is there a good $50 regenerator?

[gerardhn]

Anyone in for sharing his improvements after buying (trying) an "audiophile" fuse in his sytem?
Style: which brand did you buy and what are your findings?

[wkhanna]

I fully agree. But here the issue of "better" started on the basis of sound quality. Are we to expand the definition to include longevity? ...........

My comment is based solely on the fuse’s effect to the sound quality.

Once again, I am reminded of when Dan (PewterTA) & I described our observations when he simply upgraded the internal wire and substituted the mechanical factory spade connection to the drivers (both price point driven) with hand soldered connections on his speakers, many were skeptical. Which is fine by me. But not one of all those who protested our report as biased or somehow flawed ever actually tried it.

[Glen B]

Deleted.

[Srrndhound]

Once again, I am reminded of when Dan (PewterTA) & I described our observations when he simply upgraded the internal wire and substituted the mechanical factory spade connection to the drivers (both price point driven) with hand soldered connections on his speakers, many were skeptical. Which is fine by me. But not one of all those who protested our report as biased or somehow flawed ever actually tried it.

Key difference. At least the interconnect wires and terminals are in the signal path. The fuses are not.

[wkhanna]

I don't believe I'm doing this but I'll bite.

:roflmao: I wish I had a Mobile Fidelity Original Master Record Sleeve for all the times I have said that.

[slauten]

No, it’s not the same thing at all. Replacing tires can make a huge difference in car performance (good, bad, or a mix of tradeoffs). In contrast, replacing one proper fuse with any other properly specified fuse will make no difference in sound quality whatsoever. Instead of tires, a better analogy would be replacing the circuit breaker in the service panel.

Which of those power cords sounds better? ]I'm not sure a better power cord makes better sound in and of itself, but I'm sure better power cords deliver the power to the equipment with less voltage drop and less noise contamination. Without getting into a bunch technical crap...a power cord with larger gauge wire can and does deliver less voltage drop/conductive resistance. Different metals conduct electricity better than others with silver being better than copper, etc. Silver also works better as "contacts" on a switch better than copper. In addition plain powers cords don't have any shielding to protect against noise. I do feel there is a point of diminishing return when you get into a $1,000 power cord vs. a $500.00 power cord, however multiple strands of wire are better from a resistance stand point vs. fewer conductor wire that have larger strands, at some point the value of this is also diminished.

I never said that different fuses could not have different lifespans, only that (aside from AC units and older BMWs :B ), fuse lifespan is a non-issue, particularly as lifespan has no relation to sound quality, which is the one and only reason that has been set forth to replace the Classe amplifier mains fuses. My interest mainly is focused on a "lot" of current is flowing through the fuse, a fuse using better metal can and does have less resistance and voltage drop though it. If you look at the fuse itself compared to the power cord feeding it, theres a significant reduction in wire/conductor size. From my experience dealing with fuses and wiring over the years I think a more "robust" fuse without changing the design criteria does make sense. This would apply to virtually anything in the circuit from breaker panel to the fuse. A good comparison would be how a computer room electric grid is built to minimize electric interference, voltage drop, and amp draw along with surge protection/power regeneration are part of the design. My intent is not to argue about this, but simply to say these things do have merit and those in the quest for perfect sound should not rule out these things. Something as simple as a loose wire nut in the electric feeding the system can cause a multitude of issues that many on this forum may not have considered. A great comparison is electric outlets. I'm sure you would agree that can buy ones that cost .50 cents or $200.00. Components are cheapest metal and plastic you can find vs. copper, gold , or silver metal with heavy duty construction. I honestly don't know where the price point is that no gain is to be had (sound improvement, or less voltage drop/firmer contact in circuit) but I am certain that a better outlet makes sense and it's an area where many audiophiles don't address. I've gone to the trouble of making sure all my audio/video equipment is on separate breakers with no junctions in the wiring. I have enough money invested in this "addiction" I'm not cutting costs on the arteries that feed my system! Specially when it's peanuts compared to the hard wear it feeds power to.

Fuse malfunction/longevity was not mentioned by the OP, only sound quality. Shall we do him the courtesy of staying on topic? Sorry about that, was not my intent to get off topic.

Even though I suspect your definition of "best fuse" does not include sound quality, I would still like to know the specific construction criteria that characterize a better mains fuse for our Classe gear. Please be specific. Thanks! I'm just a simple Texas boy who's worked with electricity all my life. I'm not an engineer but I do make what the engineers design actually work. Been involved in trouble shooting electrical, air conditioning and controls/building automation for 40 years. I've seen 1st hand what issues arise when the power feeding equipment does not work right. I think what the upgrade fuse manufacturers list as the components they use speak for themselves. Copper is better than cheap steel or aluminum that comes on the cheap fuse, coated copper with silver or whatever "stuff" they use is better than plain copper. Fuse elements can also be better without sacrificing any of the base design functions. Does the fuse that costs $50.00 have $49.00 more in costs to justify it's price vs. a $1.00 fuse? Heck no! None of this stuff is truly worth what is charged, profit margins are crazy. Does a $50,000 ams have $40,000 worth of better sound than a $10,000 amp? I'm not likely to ever know, so in the mean time I will likely buy a better fuse and know that it at least is better built than my $1.00 weak link fuse.

On the rare occasion I have needed them, I buy the same fuses, but not from Classe. They are inexpensive and readily available. I agree, that's your choice but if somebody wants to spend more to get a better fuse I don't see an issue.

Please describe the characteristics of the $50 fuse that offer enhanced protection in any degree than the OEM fuse, let alone better than a $50 surge protector. Described fuse above. I don't think a $50 surge suppressor that will protect against a true surge exists.
Is there a good $50 regenerator?

Nope, nor a good $50.00 surge suppressor.

One final comment. My wife thinks I'm stupid for buying all of this audio/ equipment! If she knew how much time I spend talking on these forums...she would really go ballistic and tell me to go do something productive. This friendly debate has gone on way too long. I'm done!

Best Regards!

Steve

[Srrndhound]

^^ Steve,

The problem with so much of what passes for high end improvements are too often based on superstition or anecdotal "evidence." If it costs more, it must be better, right? Thus far there has been no evidence presented that any differences in materials (let alone prices) leads to better fuse performance, by whatever metric one wants to apply.

Enjoy your newfound free time! Summertime in Texas (how well I remember it!) can surely be a challenge for the AC man. We had ours on a timer in San Antonio. It clicked on in March, and stayed on until October. :T

[wkhanna]

Key difference. At least the interconnect wires and terminals are in the signal path. The fuses are not.

No difference.
First try it.
Then pass judgment backed by experience.

[style]

Hi gerardhn,

fuse replaced. I have a furutech and other 2: a Padis and APH

I go try this we with some test. I wait a reponse to make a "upgrade" into the CP800 too.

I give my news.


greets Style

[madmac]

By the way folks, this is a great thread!!.

A power fuse in a piece of audio gear should make zero difference in the sound that comes out of it, unless it has blown of course!!. I'm normally willing to try ANYTHING to get better sound....especially if it's CHEAP!!. Remember the Armour all CD thingy or the green marker on the CD thingy??. I tried 'em all and 'thought' at the time I heard a difference. Psychology is HUGE when it comes to higher end sound and expectations are high. Let's just keep playing with our gear and have fun.......That's what I say.....that's what this forum is all about!!.

[Srrndhound]

No difference.
First try it.
Then pass judgment backed by experience.

Maybe you misunderstood my post. I was supporting your point that when you "upgraded the internal wire and substituted the mechanical factory spade connection to the drivers" it presumably improved the sound (was my inference incorrect?).

I did similar upgrades to a Moscode power amp and was pleased with the results. But I did not change its power fuse.

[gerardhn]

Hi Style!.

You seem the only one that took the opportunity to try a new fuse.
What about your feedback???