CP800 Help Required

[windshear]

I have borrowed a CP800 from my dealer and for once im stumped by an electronic device.

I cannot get my ipod to work via the front USB. I have tried anything and everything in the menu system with no success. Im beginning to think its either the CP800 or the cable as the IPOD works fine in the car via USB.

Any ideas if its something i may be overlooking?

Secondly regarding the USB interface on the rear. Does it only work with a pc or can you use a media player to feed audio in. I have managed to get it to work via my laptop, but had no success via a media player. I get the impression you need a device that has its own visual user interface that is active to get things up and running via the USB, before you can use the limited controls in the CP800.

Should the display show any media information when using the USB inputs, or is that expecting too much ?

[Aquarius]

After connecting ipod via the front USB go to:

Menu > System setup > Source Setup > USB front > Check: Enable Source > Input Connector: Check USB front

Note: Pass-Thru unchecked!

This should works!

CP-800 works w/ media players. One of my shortlist is Aurender http://www.aurender.com/

But you must be aware that any info and visuals such as song names, playlist etc. you'll get on the media player display, not on the CP-800.

[roubaixpro]

After connecting ipod via the front USB go to:



CP-800 works w/ media players. One of my shortlist is Aurender http://www.aurender.com/

.

Hi Aquarius,

I am also thinking of getting an Aurender S10. I assume you have the CP-800. How do you like it? I was thinking of getting the CP-800 / Aurender S10 combo and do away with cd players entirely. Have you tried compared playing CD's and FLAC files on the CP-800? Which one sound better?

[Aquarius]

Hi Aquarius,

I am also thinking of getting an Aurender S10. I assume you have the CP-800. How do you like it? I was thinking of getting the CP-800 / Aurender S10 combo and do away with cd players entirely. Have you tried compared playing CD's and FLAC files on the CP-800? Which one sound better?

I played every possible music files on CP-800: 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48, 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4 and 24/192. Most of them are wav and flac.

There is no difference between flac and wav in sound quality since they are both lossless files. If you have a supreme quality recording of 16/44.1 (CD/RedBook standard) it could be better than average or upsampled 24/192 HiRes music file. But native HiRes recording (mostly 24/48 or 24/88.2) are far superior than 16/44.1.

On the other hand, good 24/192 recordings are very rare. At the moment and to my knowledge Reference Recording has fabulous HiRes 24/176.4 recordings.

Aurender is 'fire and forget' solution with great software support (iPad). I saw it (and heard it) several times, it worked perfectly. That simplicity of usage is what I liked most. And it's damn fast!

[windshear]

The Problem looks like its with my ipod. I updated the firmware and it will not play, however it comes up with a message that says its not compatible with the connected device. I find this very strange as the ipod works everywhere else. I tried another ipod from someone else and it works fine. I thought the CP 800 was compatible with all ipods..... :roll:

[rgbyhkr]

I tried another ipod from someone else and it works fine. I thought the CP 800 was compatible with all ipods..... :roll:

Just for quick reference, the list of iPods that the CP-800 is compatible with can be found on the specs tab of this page:

http://www.classeaudio.com/delta/delta-cp800.htm

[windshear]

It is a 60GB ipod classic, so it should be supported, it comes up with the following message on the ipod "The currently attached accessory is not supported by this ipod". Even after upgrading to the latest firmware, what is really disappointing about this fact is that the ipod works in my car via usb and its interface and technology is at least 8 years old. This sucks, i guess i wont be buying the CP800, its not as flexible as its made out to be. It doesnt work with my media player either via usb and there is no meta data displayed on the CP800 screen. So whats the point.

[rgbyhkr]

It is a 60GB ipod classic, so it should be supported, it comes up with the following message on the ipod "The currently attached accessory is not supported by this ipod". Even after upgrading to the latest firmware, what is really disappointing about this fact is that the ipod works in my car via usb and its interface and technology is at least 8 years old. This sucks, i guess i wont be buying the CP800, its not as flexible as its made out to be. It doesnt work with my media player either via usb and there is no meta data displayed on the CP800 screen. So whats the point.

A few things here:

- If your iPod is indeed a 60GB model, it's not a classic. See here: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1353. As such, it isn't supported. The fact that it is supported by your car's USB interface doesn't really matter as the CP-800 is doing something that the vast, vast, vast majority of iPod docks and USB interfaces do not do. It is extracting the digital signal from the iPod and thus bypassing the inferior DAC inside the iPod itself. Unfortunately, not every iPod made by Apple was capable of passing along this digital signal to an external device. If Classe did also support these older iPods (by accepting the analog signal from these older iPods - assuming that's technically possible to design the interface so that it could switch on the fly depending on the model connected), the result would be disappointing. As in, "I thought the CP-800 was supposed to make playback from an iPod sound really good, but this sounds like garbage...". Given that, I agree with their choice to support the digital bypass compatible models only. You can still connect your iPod to the unit via the rear analog inputs.

- My memory is that the CP-800 does not display a music navigation interface on its screen when a compatible iPod is connected and that the iPod playback control capabilities via the remote are basic. It does seem to be a bit of a waste of that front touchscreen display, but they would have to do a lot of work to keep up with all the advancements made by Apple year after year. Plus, the display is so small that you really couldn't use it effectively for navigation from across the room. If you have to walk over to the unit to see the display, just using the iPod's/iPhone's/iPad's own playback controls seems like the smarter option (nothing new that users have to learn). Simply displaying the currently playing song on the CP-800's screen from a USB connected iPod would be a nice touch, so on that point I will agree. Overall though, I personally don't think that it makes the CP-800 a lesser product because of the omission.

- As for your mention of the media player and the rear USB input, what device are you trying to connect via that port? For reference, the manual states:

" Digital Audio Input - USB
The CP-800 supports digital audio sources via USB. The rear panel USB
Device connector mates with a USB Host such as a PC or Mac."

Personally, I don't expect any more than audio streaming (that's the norm for DACs in the industry with USB inputs) when connecting a computer to the CP-800. As for connecting a dedicated media player, how many out there have usb outputs? I'm assuming here by media player, you mean a dedicated music streamer/server like the squeezebox, etc. My point is that as it seems uncommon, I'm not surprised that Classe would not have specifically chosen to support them over USB. You still could connect them via coax/optical digital though.

[windshear]

A few things here:

- If your iPod is indeed a 60GB model, it's not a classic. See here: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1353. As such, it isn't supported. The fact that it is supported by your car's USB interface doesn't really matter as the CP-800 is doing something that the vast, vast, vast majority of iPod docks and USB interfaces do not do. It is extracting the digital signal from the iPod and thus bypassing the inferior DAC inside the iPod itself. Unfortunately, not every iPod made by Apple was capable of passing along this digital signal to an external device. If Classe did also support these older iPods (by accepting the analog signal from these older iPods - assuming that's technically possible to design the interface so that it could switch on the fly depending on the model connected), the result would be disappointing. As in, "I thought the CP-800 was supposed to make playback from an iPod sound really good, but this sounds like garbage...". Given that, I agree with their choice to support the digital bypass compatible models only. You can still connect your iPod to the unit via the rear analog inputs.

- My memory is that the CP-800 does not display a music navigation interface on its screen when a compatible iPod is connected and that the iPod playback control capabilities via the remote are basic. It does seem to be a bit of a waste of that front touchscreen display, but they would have to do a lot of work to keep up with all the advancements made by Apple year after year. Plus, the display is so small that you really couldn't use it effectively for navigation from across the room. If you have to walk over to the unit to see the display, just using the iPod's/iPhone's/iPad's own playback controls seems like the smarter option (nothing new that users have to learn). Simply displaying the currently playing song on the CP-800's screen from a USB connected iPod would be a nice touch, so on that point I will agree. Overall though, I personally don't think that it makes the CP-800 a lesser product because of the omission.

- As for your mention of the media player and the rear USB input, what device are you trying to connect via that port? For reference, the manual states:

" Digital Audio Input - USB
The CP-800 supports digital audio sources via USB. The rear panel USB
Device connector mates with a USB Host such as a PC or Mac."

Personally, I don't expect any more than audio streaming (that's the norm for DACs in the industry with USB inputs) when connecting a computer to the CP-800. As for connecting a dedicated media player, how many out there have usb outputs? I'm assuming here by media player, you mean a dedicated music streamer/server like the squeezebox, etc. My point is that as it seems uncommon, I'm not surprised that Classe would not have specifically chosen to support them over USB. You still could connect them via coax/optical digital though.

I think we need to clear up something, if its USB its digital ! If one device can support the digital stream and yes my car uses the digital stream from the Ipod and uses its DAC's to convert it to analogue then so should every other device that is USB capable. After all USB is an industry "standard". Obviously the CP800 firmware is not enable to communicate to this specific Ipod, i suspect a licensing or even marketing ploy. If it can talk to my computer, then i should be able to talk to any USB device that is such enabled.

Most online websites refer to the Ipod 6th generation and lower as a classic. The 6th generation was specifically labelled classic and sold as such. I did find a small label on the side of the CP800 box that specifically shows which ipods it supports(by size and name), a pity its not in the same form in any of the Classe literature.

I agree that its a pity and waste the front display does not support playback information.

Im using a mede8er Media player, it has USB host and slave outputs as well as HDMi and SPDIF and analogue. I use my Oppo BDP95 via USB to control and stream it for the better DAC option in the Oppo compared to the media player or my AV Processor, either via spdif or HDMI.

It seems like the CP800 is limited in the fact it needs a host streaming device, obviously with its own visual interface for appropriate control. Ironically the basic pause, play and skip fwd and bkwrds functions do work with the CP800 remote.

I have come to terms i had misguided and idealistic expectations from the CP800 especially via its USB which is defined as its crowning glory.

[rgbyhkr]

I think we need to clear up something, if its USB its digital ! If one device can support the digital stream and yes my car uses the digital stream from the Ipod and uses its DAC's to convert it to analogue then so should every other device that is USB capable. After all USB is an industry "standard". Obviously the CP800 firmware is not enable to communicate to this specific Ipod, i suspect a licensing or even marketing ploy. If it can talk to my computer, then i should be able to talk to any USB device that is such enabled.

Most online websites refer to the Ipod 6th generation and lower as a classic. The 6th generation was specifically labelled classic and sold as such. I did find a small label on the side of the CP800 box that specifically shows which ipods it supports(by size and name), a pity its not in the same form in any of the Classe literature.

I agree that its a pity and waste the front display does not support playback information.

Im using a mede8er Media player, it has USB host and slave outputs as well as HDMi and SPDIF and analogue. I use my Oppo BDP95 via USB to control and stream it for the better DAC option in the Oppo compared to the media player or my AV Processor, either via spdif or HDMI.

It seems like the CP800 is limited in the fact it needs a host streaming device, obviously with its own visual interface for appropriate control. Ironically the basic pause, play and skip fwd and bkwrds functions do work with the CP800 remote.

I have come to terms i had misguided and idealistic expectations from the CP800 especially via its USB which is defined as its crowning glory.

I could spend time countering what I see here as inaccurate statements, misunderstandings of how a device like the CP-800 is supposed to work, etc. That being said, it's probably a waste of time. You have wants/needs that the CP-800 doesn't fulfill, so you should probably look elsewhere.

[windshear]

Please enlighten me !!! Im always willing to learn from someone who "knows" more i do. ;x( After all isnt that the net is about.

Ps i am assuming you own one

[rgbyhkr]

Before I proceed, I want to clear up why I'm participating in this thread. I'm not trying to be confrontational, rather I am trying to clear up what appear to be misunderstandings. Like any complex product, the CP-800 can do some lots of things, but it absolutely can not do everything. Also, like so many companies with new and exciting products, Classe markets the product as the greatest thing since sliced bread in the category. That can lead to customer confusion about what a product can or, more likely, what they think it should be able to do. I think Classe has made some mistakes with the product, but the ones you bring up strike me more as falling short in the subjective perception category. I think you had hopes that this product would do certain things and now that you find that it doesn't, you're disappointed. That's fair but what shouldn't come from this thread is some lingering perceptions that the product is supposed to do X, when clearly it does not. For potential customers who research the product, if they find this thread, they should at least come away with accurate information.

Ps i am assuming you own one

First, I don't own one, but I've delved deeply into the technical details of the CP-800 and had conversations with both Classe tech support staff and an extended discussion with Dave Nauber at CEDIA 2010 when they first introduced the unit. I will likely buy it, but I'm trying to get a better idea of what the cost will be for the USB/ethernet upgrade coming later this year. For me, the unit fits the bill for everything I want in a DAC with the "more than just input switching and volume control" pre-amp functionality included as a bonus. Once it supports higher res formats over USB, that's the last item in my desired checklist. Of course, as delays and final details often change with any company's proposed product feature upgrade, I want to be sure of what is coming and at what price before I take the plunge.

Here are the issues I see with your last post:

I think we need to clear up something, if its USB its digital ! If one device can support the digital stream and yes my car uses the digital stream from the Ipod and uses its DAC's to convert it to analogue then so should every other device that is USB capable. After all USB is an industry "standard". Obviously the CP800 firmware is not enable to communicate to this specific Ipod, i suspect a licensing or even marketing ploy. If it can talk to my computer, then i should be able to talk to any USB device that is such enabled.

I confused the issue by talking about analog and digital. Even if the signal passed from the iPod to any device over the USB cable is digital, that signal can be one that has already been processed by the iPod's Wolfson DAC chip, or not. My understanding is that the Apple did not make the bypassing of the internal DAC possible until later gen iPods. Further, I also understand that in order for an external device to extract this "pre-DAC" signal, the 3rd party manufacturer has to do some licensing with Apple that may include some authentication hardware (that part may just be for video signal extraction, not sure). So, it appears that Classe did jump through Apple's hoops in order to get the required licensing to grab this desired signal.

What Classe has nothing to do with is Apple's earlier design limitations that would prevent them from getting this "pre-DAC" signal from a connected iPod. As I said before, they may have been able to design the unit to be compatible with older iPods as well, but I don't think doing so would have been in their best interest. If it's not technically possible to get the unaltered signal from older gen iPods leaving them instead with a signal that's already been processed by the iPod's inferior internal DAC, then I agree with their choice to not support those older (again 5+ years now) iPods through the front USB jack. Any usage like that would result in disappointing sonic results that would almost certainly reflect badly on the CP-800.

I know that before Apple made this design change, there were playback units that would mount the iPod as a USB storage device, access the files directly and use their own menu and navigation structure. This was a necessary evil at the time to get around the limitation of older iPods. Once the bypass option was added though, I can see why no one bothers taking that route anymore - and I certainly would not have expected Classe to do the same to support these older iPods.

Beyond Classe, there are other manufacturers who offer iPod playback whereby the DAC bypass is also supported. These docks are not very common as it appears that many manufacturers are simply content to take that line out signal from the iPod's Wolfson DAC. I guess you could argue that for a cheap speaker dock, a pristine digital signal wouldn't be critical. For those docks that do offer the DAC bypass, at least the ones that I've seen, they all list compatibility with the classic iPod vs early gen units. As such, Classe isn't alone here.

Most online websites refer to the Ipod 6th generation and lower as a classic. The 6th generation was specifically labelled classic and sold as such.

Other websites may say different, but Apple's official identification only refers to the 6th gen and newer models as "classic". In fact, once they got to 6th gen, they just use the classic name and have not used the generation term at all. That could very well be because the physical design has not changed since that time. You may have meant that here and if you did, I just want to make sure we're being accurate.

All models 5th gen and earlier were not labeled with the classic name and therefore are not officially a classic, regardless of what other websites suggest. Is it confusing? Heck yes. Apple has been notorious about product naming as it relates to model revamps and seems to now be taking the same approach with the latest iPad. Still though, that's not Classe's fault.

I did find a small label on the side of the CP800 box that specifically shows which ipods it supports(by size and name), a pity its not in the same form in any of the Classe literature.

Here are the places where I have found Classe including the compatibility disclosure:

CP-800 product page (specifications tab)

http://www.classeaudio.com/delta/delta-cp800.htm#

CP-800 White Paper (Page 7):

http://www.classeaudio.com/downloads/pdfs/preamps/CP-800_WhitePaper-final2.pdf

CP-800 Brochure (Page 11):

http://www.classeaudio.com/downloads/cp-800/CP-800_Brochure_3-7-12_EN.pdf

CP-800 Datasheet (Page 2):

http://www.classeaudio.com/downloads/pdfs/preamps/CP-800Sheet-SCREEN%20Final.pdf

CP-800 Manual (Page 44):

http://www.classeaudio.com/delta/pdfs/CP-800_ENG_1.3.pdf

Im using a mede8er Media player, it has USB host and slave outputs as well as HDMi and SPDIF and analogue. I use my Oppo BDP95 via USB to control and stream it for the better DAC option in the Oppo compared to the media player or my AV Processor, either via spdif or HDMI.

It seems like the CP800 is limited in the fact it needs a host streaming device, obviously with its own visual interface for appropriate control. Ironically the basic pause, play and skip fwd and bkwrds functions do work with the CP800 remote.

I honestly think this is a matter of personal preference. While you see the ability for the DAC to offer playback control functionality as a major plus, I would never want my control scheme to be setup that way. In my experience, especially with substantial digital music libraries, UI interfaces are usually not done all that well. I find that to be the case even with companies building dedicated music streamers or servers. As such, I would never rely on the control scheme offered by a multi-purpose DAC device for music library navigation and playback. I think Classe's thought here is simply to let the folks who are making those devices focus on those functions while their device handles the DAC heavy lifting as well as the volume control, input switching, tone and EQ options, etc.

There are DACs out there which will support USB storage devices so if that's critical to you, you have other choices out there. Again, I see this as completely subjective as that kind of functionality in a DAC holds absolutely no value for me. That's just not how I want to arrange my music playback setup.

[windshear]

Thanks for the comprehensive response, at least we both can understand and see our respective perspectives and needs. People all to easily become confrontational online and it serves no purpose and has no place here. We are all just trying to share our experiences and maybe learn from others who have maybe some better insight or background knowledge.

I need to qualify the expectations i had. I currently own an Onkyo PR-SC5509 Processor. It is able to access the Ipod directly via the USB, get to its directory structure and generate an onscreen display, all done via the digital domain. It then converts the signal to analogue via its DAC's at no point do the Ipod dacs come into the equation as im not using a dock but the USB connector that came with the ipod. Additionally i am able to use my media player in the same way via the Onkyo, thus i was expecting the CP800 to do the same.

I can do the same with my Oppo BDP95 for my media player. It cannot however connect to the ipod, i was not expecting as much from it.

I dont plan to use the ipod as a stereo source in this system, thats why i have the media player. I merely tried the ipod with the CP800 and was thus disappointed. I did however expect the media player to work on the CP800 which it does not. I obviously was mistaken in its capability, given that the dealer thought it would work and thats why i used the "loan" unit for evaluation purposes.

My biggest let down was actually in the audio stakes. The main reason for trying the CP800 was to improve my "stereo" capability. I tested the Classe with my Oppo BDP95. I connected the Oppo to the CP800 via the XLR analogue outputs and via its spdif connector. Switching between the two inputs i could not differentiate between the two inputs. To put it mildly i was expecting a night and day difference given that everyone is raving about the CP800. The unit was new out of the box, so had not been "run" in. I however do not subscribe to that idea, the only run in i believe that takes place is the placebo effect in the mind that becomes accustomed to a new "sound".

However here comes the strange part in the whole exercise. When i had returned the CP800 to the dealer i set forth comparing my Oppo to the Onkyo Dac's. Once again i struggled to tell the difference between the two, however the Oppo was marginally better in its bass extension and warmth in the midrange. I somehow feel that having had the CP800 in my analogue chain gave me a sweeter sound. More punchy, more detail etc. Yet that would imply it was changing the sound when it was bypassing the analogue signal.

I would love to give the Classe the benefit of the doubt and will certainly be trying one again if i get the chance. I need to establish some meaningfull criteria to do a better, more purposefull comparison.

[aarsoe]

Try to enable "analogue pass through " on the XLR input. If you are not doing that then the signal is AD'ed and will naturally sound the same as the digital input. I honestly think the conversion kills the dynamics and flattens the sound - but I guess everyone have their own taste.