Moved away from Classe

[dan87951]

Well I decided it was time to try a different amplifier from the reliable CA-401 and was looking at going with another Classe but now that there made in China I decided it was crazy to spend that kind of money on amplifier only to have the made in China sticker on the back. It would be like me buying a Ducati that was made in Korea..its just not right! So I sold the Classe CA-401 that has been in the family for many years and has been dead reliable and upgraded to McIntosh 452. All I can say is I wish I made the switch sooner. The build quality and the analog meters are just sublime. The exterior details and build quality are top notch. I plan on having this amp for at least 10 years. If any of you are just as bummed as me about Classe gear being made in China don't forget there is always other players out there ie McIntosh. :T

[mjb]

I love the McIntosh retro-styling too, but its unfortunately hard to find in Europe. Luckily, I've still got plenty of life in my "Made in Canada" Classé gear yet. Enjoy your new amp!

[style]

The look of the 452 is nice, great ampli...but I dont like so much the Mc sound....

well at today Classe have made in Canada on the back! :W


mjb the Mc452 or other M in Europa are available but not at the same price from Usa..... 8O

style

[mjb]

the Mc452 or other M in Europa are available but not at the same price from Usa..... 8O

I did some googling, MX150 ~ 12000 euro's, MC452 ~ 7500 euro's 8O 8O

[miner]

Good choice Dan - a wonderful amplifier that will not let you down.

[style]

Persoaly I can understand the power ampli from Mc but the AV like the 150 or 130? (with xlr only L/C/R + Rca Rear) have a very crazy price.....

and dont forget: the cd player with the label Mc are inside at 80% denon product!!

[dan87951]

Good choice Dan - a wonderful amplifier that will not let you down.

Wow, what a setup in that picture!

Yea I think I did well and I kinda prefer the sonic signature of the Mac over my classe. Once the dust settles I will add a updates processor of some kind don't know which brand, yet.

[beden1]

Well I decided it was time to try a different amplifier from the reliable CA-401 and was looking at going with another Classe but now that there made in China I decided it was crazy to spend that kind of money on amplifier only to have the made in China sticker on the back. It would be like me buying a Ducati that was made in Korea..its just not right! So I sold the Classe CA-401 that has been in the family for many years and has been dead reliable and upgraded to McIntosh 452. All I can say is I wish I made the switch sooner. The build quality and the analog meters are just sublime. The exterior details and build quality are top notch. I plan on having this amp for at least 10 years. If any of you are just as bummed as me about Classe gear being made in China don't forget there is always other players out there ie McIntosh. :T

I agree with you 100%! :T

Classe made in China = No Thank You! :wtf:

[sikoniko]

I haven't given this much thought but I do think there is a difference between your average "made in china" and this situation.

Your average "made in china" is done by suppliers, such as those for iPads, that make many things for many companies... ipads, laptops, desktops, phones, etc.

In this scenario, B&W owns the plant, the employees are b&w employees and QC is done by b&w.

I'm not in the market for anything right now... but lets think about this.. the cp800 is $5000. wasnt the cp700 $7000? if that savings is in part due to it being made in china and I like how it sounds... then I don't care.

IMO, the concern should not be where it is made, but the quality of what is made. if quality slips, then yes, we should all wash our hands. but until there is proof that it has happened i think its all FUD - fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

[slauten]

I agree with sikoniko! In addition...where are the processors, circuit boards and other parts made? I bet it's not Canada. Classe has been making Rotel, and some B&W at this plant for a while, and hopefully got the kinks ironed out. Some of the best computers made are assembled in China.

It is my belief that Classe/B&W is not stupid enough to mess up a good thing. Let's not bring in the verdict too soon. I do prefer made in Canada, that was to me a very nice distinction for Classe, that saga in their history is over. I'm excited to see the next chapter and until shown otherwise will give them a chance.

See Ya,
Steve

[Glen B]

Wow, what a setup in that picture!

Yea I think I did well and I kinda prefer the sonic signature of the Mac over my classe. Once the dust settles I will add a updates processor of some kind don't know which brand, yet.

Check out these Mac systems:

[beden1]

I love the McIntosh classic look. Classe moving their production to China is enough for me to look towards McIntosh in rebuilding my stereo setup in the coming year.

[JackB]

Assembly Snobbery??

beden1, I guess youd better check that the parts inside your McIntosh are not made in China or it could be a futile task. Do people mean 'made' in china or 'assembled' in china?
The majority of parts (for most electronics systems) will be Chinese sourced, a lot of the semi fabs are in China/Taiwan..

If its where it is assembled then that is a different thing altogether. I guess its down to labour preference, Canadian workers (several of which were from China at Classe) are prefferred over Chinese (some of whom will undoubtedly be Canadian/ANOther)..

I suppose the brand Classe to some people means 'Status' and to others means 'Performance'. I thankfully am in the latter but can understand people in the 'status' camp.

[wildtangent]

I love the McIntosh classic look. Classe moving their production to China is enough for me to look towards McIntosh in rebuilding my stereo setup in the coming year.

They will look really good next to your Chinese made Oppo...:lol:

[beden1]

They will look really good next to your Chinese made Oppo...:lol:

Which has to be sent back for service, by the way!

[slauten]

I own an air condtioning company, it's a 3 generation family owned business. I appreciate the traditions and heritage that is associated with McIntosh. However let's not forget they too are owned by a larger corporation. Denon and Marantz make great products. I recently bought a high end blue ray player. I looked very close at the MVP881 from McIntosh. I also looked at the Denon and Marantz versions. My eye for detail is at the novice level compared to many of you on this forum. However we are talking $4,000 for the Denon version, $6,000 for the Marantz version, and $8,000 plus for the McIntosh version. I did my best to look at all of the specs and bought the Marantz UD9004. Got a floor model for $3,500 with full warranty. I can't tell Any significant difference in the specs betwen these models. The Marantz has lots of copper sheilding in it, and appears to have slightly better specs than the McIntosh. I'm not sure where the Marantz is made and don't care. What I'm focused on is features, benefits, and performance. All 3 models have a set of balanced XLR outputs. The video I'm getting out of the Marantz is spectacular. My point here is much of the technology is shared between these 3 brands, and I suspect the McIntosh version is simply the same unit with the Mac front on it. Is that worth $2000 more than the Marantz? I'm not even sure if the McIntosh version has the copper sheilding?

At the end of the day, Classe has made a decision they feel will keep them in the game.

I sell Trane air conditioners made in Tyler, Texas but are they really? Many of the electronic boards are made overseas. Some of the compressors are made in Mexico. In my opinion, the country where something is made does not matter. All I care about is performance, reliability, and customer support.

No doubt those beautiful McIntosh fronts with the sexy meters, thick glass, and indigo blue lights are attractive. So is the touchscreens on the Classe. I say both brands are great...buy what you want and enjoy!

See Ya,
Steve

[miner]

Wow, what a setup in that picture!

Yea I think I did well and I kinda prefer the sonic signature of the Mac over my classe. Once the dust settles I will add a updates processor of some kind don't know which brand, yet.

The piscture was taken in McIntosh's Theater demo room in Binghamton, NY. This was at the end of my factory tour.

[miner]

Wow, what a setup in that picture!

Yea I think I did well and I kinda prefer the sonic signature of the Mac over my classe. Once the dust settles I will add a updates processor of some kind don't know which brand, yet.

The picture was taken in McIntosh's Theater demo room in Binghamton, NY. This was at the end of my factory tour.

[dan87951]

I'm surprised some people who spend over $5k on a audio amplifier don't care where the parts are made and where they are built. Classe loves you than.. In the automotive industry where the product is built is very important to their image and quality.

Below is a email I received back from Mcintosh regarding where they are built.

"Hi Dan,
We use USA made raw steel, Glass, transformer laminations and magnet wire, raw Circuit boards and build the units from ground up right here in Binghamton. Some internal parts like Resistors and transistors and stuff are not made in the USA anymore and we do import those parts. We also pack the units in USA made cardboard from the Binghamton Box company.

I would assert that McIntosh has the highest percentage of in-house build and USA parts of any audio company, possibly of any product at all, we are a greater percentage of USA parts than Harley-Davidson, Ford, or any other American company I can think of.

The video link on our home page may give more insight to this.




Chuck Hinton of McIntosh & Snell Tech Support"

[RebelMan]

There was a time when a brand's name (and a consumer's loyalty) was synonymous with a product's location of manufacture. I for one bought into it. I was a big proponent of American cars, European loudspeakers and Canadian audio systems. But in this age of the Global Marketplace that time has for the most part come and gone. I have since learned, though not easily, to relax my prejudices as I have become wiser (older) about the need for companies to change their business model to remain competitive, many times not by their own choosing.

I like the McIntosh brand too but lets face it, they are tremendously expensive for what you get in today's market. I don't fault them for it because they probably have to be to maintain a profitable business stateside and a sustainable employee lifestyle. Though, I think it would prove shortsighted to discard any brand name product as a collective whole just because of it's place of origin. There are plenty of good products made in China and at price points people are willing to pay. It is unlikely the CP-800 could be offered at $5000 if it were not built in China. Besides, most people are more interested in supporting their own self-serving needs than they are any business. Therefore, each product and brand needs to be evaluated and judged on a case-by-case basis, to be fair.

I wouldn't call a Ford a Ford if someone put a Chevy engine in it just because of the name plate. Anyone who would is disillusion. But if Ford sourced parts they deemed worthy enough to be called Ford, I am okay with that. I see McIntosh doing that already to a small degree and Classe' to a larger one. That said, I will say that I would rather see manufactured in Canada instead of China if I was given the choice, all else being equal.

[impala454]

I've always been a little curious about the idea that products vary in quality based on where they're built. Are Chinese factory workers substandard or something? It reminds me of a lunch outing we had a while back. Our Chinese coworker made note of how good the sushi she got was, then was stunned when she saw the sushi chef was a Mexican

I definitely understand and agree with those who prefer to buy American made products because they want the money to stay here and support the American job market. I definitely try to do that myself, although given the nature of the electronics industry, I rarely succeed when making a large electronics purchase

[Alaric]

I at least try to stay with allies of my country. China is no friend or fair trading partner to my nation , so I avoid China's products as much as I can.

[mjb]

I dumped my shiny new Harley yesterday, and as I was lying trussed up in the ER, I noticed even their shiny new x-ray machine has a big "made in china" sticker on it. I'd like to think it wasn't making "sub-standard" images.

We can't fight it! The whole rhetoric has changed - western labor is expensive, and zealous environmental rules prevent us from building anything in the west anymore anywat. China has become our factory.

[Alaric]

Funny you should mention Harley (hope you're not too badly off!) They opened a factory in China. Their fuel injection is made in Mexico (Delphi) , and the front forks are Japanese (Honda!!!). I put together a Screamin Eagle Road Glide the first year they came out , and every box of accessory parts said 'Made In China'. I still try my best to avoid them , but it's awfully hard when your government turns on the people. They just raided Gibson because some of the woodwork is done in the US. :M