Any concerns with a CA-2100 and B&W 804 Diamonds?

[diononiz]

I have an opportunity to pick up a new CA-2100 at a great price. I currently have a Proceed HPA 3 with 250 watts per channel in a 16x30 room. Will I miss the extra power? I dont play the speakers super loud but want to make sure I have enough headroom for the occasional movie. Thanks in advance.

[beden1]

My personal opinion is that the amp is underpowered for your 804Dis. The extra power also gives a fuller sound at lower volumes, IMO. I think you will miss your Proceed amp in the end.

[diononiz]

thanks for the guidance buddy. The other option is to spring for a 5200 or 2200. Would this be a better match?

[stuofsci02]

I will go the other route and say that the CA-2100 will be a good match at all but crazy listening levels.

Unless the amp was struggling to provide current I don't see why it would be less full at lower listening levels..

Cheers!

[beden1]

thanks for the guidance buddy. The other option is to spring for a 5200 or 2200. Would this be a better match?

What's wrong with your Proceed amp? From my memory of listening to a Proceed amp in a friend's system several years ago, I felt the sound was very good, and quite possibly similar to the Classe sound with possibly a bit more edge.

[beden1]

You had previously asked about CD players to get a smooth sound. Before going any further in looking to change your equipment, do yourself a favor and audition the McIntosh MC275 tube amp. I listened to the 804Di speakers powered by an MC275 and the sound was sultry smooth and just spectacular. I'm still kicking myself for not getting one, but I'm now using my 804Dis in an HT system.

http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=Amplifiers&ProductId=MC275

[diononiz]

Thanks Beden

A couple of updates. I purchased a Classe CDP-102. I really liked the mix of definition and and a more relaxed sound.

The Marantz has been replaced by an Arcam AVR400 for home theater and as a preamp (testing this config)

I have the Classe right now and am doing some A/B testing versus the Proceed. Initial impressions: the Classe is more laid back, the treble seems less harsh, the vocals are very clear but velvety, and there is more bass. (slightly) The proceed is definatly more forward in your face with a fuller sound. The best way to describe it is being in the front row at a concert (Proceed) vs. 10 rows back (Classe). It seems the Classe is a better match with my 804 Diamonds - not at all surprising given their family ties.

My only concern with the tube amp is that should I go back to home theater, I dont feel it will be dynamic enough to give the impact I am looking for

[RebelMan]

As stuofsci02 stated the CA-2100 is more than sufficient under normal listening conditions and like beden1 stated regarding the MC275 it would be a fine amp as well and it has less power in which to muster. The common myth that big power is necessary to maximize performance is way to often overrated and overstated. For the 800 series past and present it's current (amperage) that matters most and the CA-2100 has little problem with that.

[mjb]

The common myth that big power is necessary to maximize performance is way to often overrated and overstated.

Quoted for extra emphasis!

[diononiz]

I understand. Are there any other differences sonically between the CA-2100 and CA-2200? I know the power difference may lead to a "fuller" sound. If anyone has compared them I would like to hear their opinions. Thanks

[wettou]

For the 800 series past and present it's current (amperage) that matters most and the CA-2100 has little problem with that.

Current!

I was driving the 802D with the CA-2100 and they sounded great at reasonable volume, I switched to CA-M600 for a bit more umpf for the 80Di :T

[beden1]

As stuofsci02 stated the CA-2100 is more than sufficient under normal listening conditions and like beden1 stated regarding the MC275 it would be a fine amp as well and it has less power in which to muster. The common myth that big power is necessary to maximize performance is way to often overrated and overstated. For the 800 series past and present it's current (amperage) that matters most and the CA-2100 has little problem with that.

Less power rating with more current, correct?

[bigburner]

Less power rating with more current, correct?

When I was at school Watts = Volts x Amps. If you increase the Amps the Watts will also increase because the Volts is a constant.

What's changed?

Nigel.

[busby]

When I was at school Watts = Volts x Amps. If you increase the Amps the Watts will also increase because the Volts is a constant.

What's changed?

Nigel.

The above (Watts = Volts x Amps) is true only when the current is in phase with the voltage - as in a resistive load. A loudspeaker tends to present a reactive load and at some frequencies may draw a lot of current that is out of phase with the driving voltage. Thus, the real power may be modest but the current requirement high. This explains why some speakers may be considered to be "difficult" to drive and require amplifiers with high current capability.

HTH

Chris

[RebelMan]

I understand. Are there any other differences sonically between the CA-2100 and CA-2200? I know the power difference may lead to a "fuller" sound. If anyone has compared them I would like to hear their opinions. Thanks

No, they are architecturally equivalent and there is no audible difference between them at reasonable volumes. At the extreme end of the dial the CA-2200 will be slightly more capable but not by much (6dB).

What's reasonable and what's extreme? At a listening distance of 4m, 72-76dB with 6-10 dB peak swings (78-86dB max) is reasonable. At that distance, the CA-2100 is capable of driving the 804D2 to 98dB continuously with 1.3dB of dynamic headroom (99.3dB max) without distorting or clipping. But this is with ONE 804D2. When you consider the other 804D2 too you will have up to 102dB of (safe) output.

Anything over 90dB is considered LOUD and anything over 100dB would be considered EXTREME. So unless you are partially deaf or you have an extremely damped room the CA-2100 will pose no problems satisfying your needs at continuous sound levels less than 92dB which is LOUD.

The fact that the CA-2100 is linear down to 4 ohms (output increases proportionally to the load) is why it can drive the increased load it sees with the 804D2 at the upper bass and upper treble frequencies without breaking a sweat. If the CA-2100 was incapable of delivering the increased demands for current at these frequencies then there would be an audible effect that would manifest itself in the form of dynamic compression ("less full").

The CA-2100 is not quite linear down to 2 ohm loads but none of the 800 series (again past and present) dip that low. The lowest they go is about 3 ohms and the CA-2100 has the current necessary to go there with them when it demands.

[RebelMan]

Less power rating with more current, correct?

McIntosh deploys a different technique with the autoformer transformers used in the topology of their amplifiers so they are not quite as linear as traditional high performance amplifiers. But they can provide a constant output for increased loads with reserves necessary to deliver the goods where it counts.

[RebelMan]

Well said Chris.