CA 5200 protection mode

[ray5]

HI,
I was recently watching TV(via dish network DVR) when I heard one of my rear speakers have some weird sound and then the amp channel 4 went into blinking red mode. As recommended by their manual I did disconnect all inputs and outputs and reconnected the power cable only, the amp powered up fine telling me that the amp itself is fine. Then I reconnected the inputs only and power the same channel started flashing red again. I guess it tells me that the problem is upstream i.e source. How do I proceed in troubleshooting the source from here and what might be happening? Never done it before. Is it safe to use the system, I have disconnected that particular speaker to be safe? Please advise. Thanks,
Ray

[beden1]

Start by checking the speaker wire for any cuts and exposed wire, and also check the connections at the amp and speaker to make sure there are no wires touching both the negative and positive terminals. Also check to make sure the speaker wires are in phase. I had an issue with this two weeks ago where I found one of the wires had been damaged about 3 feet from the speaker. The result was that my amp kept going into protection mode.

[style]

Hi Ray,

at first you need a little soft from Classe: with your pc, the soft and a cable 232-> usb you can say what is really happen!
you have read the ca5200 instruction: are more possiblity that can give the protection in the ca5200.

if all the cables connection (like Beden have wrote) are ok and with a out and in power cord give always the protection every where you have a "not good connection!!!

• At startup: the AC mains voltage must be within a range of approximately -15% to +10% of its nominal value at startup, or the amplifier will not turn on. For example, a 120V unit requires the AC mains to be between approximately 95V–135V in order to turn on. • Over-voltage during operation: if the AC mains voltage surges by roughly 10% or more during operation, the amplifier will enter protection mode and shut down. The Standby LED will flash to indicate the protection mode has been engaged. • Under-voltage during operation: if the AC mains voltage sags by 15% or more, the amplifier will continue to play (since this does not present a particular danger to the amplifier), but note that it may not be able to achieve its usual standard of performance under these compromised conditions. The Standby LED will flash to indicate the condition.

here the more possibltly clipping cause but if your restart after a out/in from the power cord from the outlet check the source connection and the speakers cables...

before with the same setting never happen? -> strange that only the rear speaker going in protection...this can be that the source is not the first troublecause.

clipping with each sound and sound or only with a "special" CDdisc or TVtransmision?

style

[ray5]

Thanks. I had the system powered down for 3 weeks. COuld that have any effects because this has never happened before and nothing whatsoever was changed?
Ray

[windshear]

No that should not affect it. Time would only be an issue if the capacitors had severely aged. Given that your unit is not that old it is highly unlikely. If the caps had aged then the amp would not have started up, after an extended discharge period. It sounds like a channel specific problem. If you are not tech savvy then i would suggest your nearest dealer to prevent any firther possible damage occuring. Is it not by any chance still under warranty ?

Ps what happens if you connect a different input to it ?

[ray5]

It is still under warranty and I am in touch with a tech person from Classe. He is a good help and working with a troubleshooting software which I should run tomorrow or so and find out from it's database about a report. Thanks

[ray5]

Can a single faulty speaker cable do this?

[beden1]

Can a single faulty speaker cable do this?

According to Marantz and my dealer, the answer is yes. That was the first thing they asked me when my new Marantz MM8003 was going into protection mode and shutting down.

[ray5]

Thanks. Here is what I found. When I disconnected all but the power cable, the amp powers up fine. Then I connected the interconnects and powered on, @ one point it would go into protect mode but now it didn't. Then I connected speaker cables one by one except the cable going to the speaker having the weird sound and connected to Channel 4 which was blinking red. This time the whole system powered on fine and played TV and movies and hence my conclusion that perhaps it's that cable. It is a Transparent cable with a network inline however it was not factory finished but the network was installed onto the cable at home. I am thinking that though the possibility of wear and tear is certainly there could a short circuit have happened at this network insertion point which is about a foot from the spades going into the speaker?
I sure hope this is the issue as the cheapest way would be to buy a speaker cable. Which brings me to the next question, do I have to have similar cables or can I buy any cable to test my theory out and later get a cable of choice? Thanks for your help beden1.

Ray

[aarsoe]

Any cable will do for testing purpose. However if you havevan ohm meter then I suggest to measure the resistance of the suspected cable. De-attached is should have infinite resistance between plus and minus. Anything else indicates an issue..

[ray5]

No luck! Despite doing the above and apparently it getting fixed, it went into protection again. What should I do now?

[RebelMan]

You have a few potential points of failure, the output from the pre-pro, the amplifier itself, the speaker itself and/or the cables in between. To isolate the problem I suggest eliminating each component in the chain one step at a time to located the potential cause.

With everything connected as usual, swap the interconnect inputs on the amp between channels 4 and say 3. If 4 goes out then the pre-pro is not the problem. Restore the configuration (swap the interconnects back) and then swap speaker cable outputs on the amp between channels 4 and say 3 again. If 4 goes out then the speaker is not the problem, it's the amp. Restore the configuration (swap the speaker cables back).

By nature of this testing process the cables on both sides of the amp are fine unless channel 3 goes out (in one of the two cases). In which case you will need to isolate the corresponding cable (interconnect or speaker cable ) to ensure that it is not the problem or at least not contributing to the problem by removing it altogether and replacing it with spare cable if you have one. If channel 3 still goes out after replacing with another known good cable then it is either the pre-pro on the input side of the amp or the speaker on the output side of the amp otherwise it is the removed cable.

[ray5]

You have a few potential points of failure, the output from the pre-pro, the amplifier itself, the speaker itself and/or the cables in between. To isolate the problem I suggest eliminating each component in the chain one step at a time to located the potential cause.

With everything connected as usual, swap the interconnect inputs on the amp between channels 4 and say 3. If 4 goes out then the pre-pro is not the problem. Restore the configuration (swap the interconnects back) and then swap speaker cable outputs on the amp between channels 4 and say 3 again. If 4 goes out then the speaker is not the problem, it's the amp. Restore the configuration (swap the speaker cables back).

By nature of this testing process the cables on both sides of the amp are fine unless channel 3 goes out (in one of the two cases). In which case you will need to isolate the corresponding cable (interconnect or speaker cable ) to ensure that it is not the problem or at least not contributing to the problem by removing it altogether and replacing it with spare cable if you have one. If channel 3 still goes out after replacing with another known good cable then it is either the pre-pro on the input side of the amp or the speaker on the output side of the amp otherwise it is the removed cable.

Thanks, this makes sense. I did not think of it this way. What I also noticed is that earlier the amp would turn on except the 4th channel blinking but now everything turns on but the amp does not at all with connections. If I disconnect everything it powers up all channels just fine. Besides the interconnects and speaker cables I have a 12v trigger cable as well. Could the 12v be a culprit as well?
Ray

[RebelMan]

I have a 12v trigger cable as well. Could the 12v be a culprit as well?

Not likely because it would impact all the channels. It wouldn't hurt to remove that feature for the duration of your testing though. The fewer the variables the easier it will be to track down the source of the problem.

[ray5]

Thanks. I was finally able to run the diagnostics and it seems DC output is the issue putting it into protection. I have to still do as you recommended and perhaps it's my pre-pro.

[RebelMan]

Sounds like it could be. What are you using for a pre/pro?

[ray5]

Sounds like it could be. What are you using for a pre/pro?

Rotel RSp-1570.

[ray5]

Sounds like it could be. What are you using for a pre/pro?

Here is what I did just now:
1) All cables disconnected(out and in): Amp turns on, no protection

Pre/Pro and a source(dishnetwork) is now powered on.

2) Sequentially connect speaker cables on and turn amp on after each connection : amp on, no protection
3) Speakers connections remain on, now connect interconnects sequentially and turn on amp after each connection, channel 1,2,3 all well.
4) Now I interchange the channel that went into protection(channel 4), 4th I/C into channel 5, amp turns on and the 5th I/C into channel 4, still amp turns on.
6) Switch back 4 and 5 channel into original connects. Amp works fine. So far.
7) turn everything off and then back on, still fine. Hope fully it will continue to.
So the question:
Now that all my connections are what they were why did it not go into protection? Can D/C output be a sporadic thing? Last time I did not do anything so orderly but it did work for a bit and the next day it happened again.
Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Shubhra

[Glen B]

Can D/C output be a sporadic thing?

Either a cold solder joint or hairline crack in a PC board trace can cause intermittent problems.

[ray5]

Either a cold solder joint or hairline crack in a PC board trace can cause intermittent problems.

So if it happens again, would that be the case? Though I wouldn't like to but can this be reproduced so I know where the problem is. So far he system seems to be fine. Thanks

[Glen B]

The possibility of a cold solder joint or bad PC board trace is an educated guess as to the most likely cause of an intermittent problem. Other possible causes of excessive DC are a leaky cap or parts in the differential stage that have gone bad or drifted off spec, but this tends to happen with age, and the DC tends to be present all the time, not come and go. Checking for cold solder joints or bad PC board traces -- if that is the cause of your problems -- requires visual inspection, manual manipulation of the suspected area(s), and the use of freeze spray on the PC board. Contraction of the metal solder or copper trace by cooling, makes defects more apparent. This work is best left to someone with repair experience.

[ray5]

The possibility of a cold solder joint or bad PC board trace is an educated guess as to the most likely cause of an intermittent problem. Other possible causes of excessive DC are a leaky cap or parts in the differential stage that have gone bad or drifted off spec, but this tends to happen with age, and the DC tends to be present all the time, not come and go. Checking for cold solder joints or bad PC board traces -- if that is the cause of your problems -- requires visual inspection, manual manipulation of the suspected area(s), and the use of freeze spray on the PC board. Contraction of the metal solder or copper trace by cooling, makes defects more apparent. This work is best left to someone with repair experience.

But how do I diagnose where the problem might be? The oldest of my equipment is 2 years so not that bad. Thanks,
Ray

[Glen B]

You asked whether DC can be sporadic, and I answered in the affirmative. Intermittent problems can sometimes be difficult for even the most experienced technicians to resolve. It may be a good idea to move preamp channel 4 output to another amplifier channel, and leave it there for an extended period. If that amplifier channel goes into protection, then you will have confirmed the problem is with preamp channel 4. If the preamp is still under warranty, then send it to Rotel for service.

[ray5]

You asked whether DC can be sporadic, and I answered in the affirmative. Intermittent problems can sometimes be difficult for even the most experienced technicians to resolve. It may be a good idea to move preamp channel 4 output to another amplifier channel, and leave it there for an extended period. If that amplifier channel goes into protection, then you will have confirmed the problem is with preamp channel 4. If the preamp is still under warranty, then send it to Rotel for service.

I didn't mean to sound curt. Sorry if it sounded that way. I did that exact thing though not by design but rather by accident. I realized it today after a day. So far so good. Thanks for your help.
Ray