CAM350 /CA5300 versus CA2300/CA5300 versus 2 CA5300?

[spykids777]

Hi,

I currently have 803Di and HTM4Di as my fronts and a 7.1 system. I am using the CA5300 to power my 803Di by Bi-Amping and using the 5th channel to run the center channel. The surrounds and rears are run by my Denon 5308CI. I am eventually thinking of replacing my Denon with the SSP-800. For the time being I am thinking of the following upgrade -

1. Buy the CAM350 monoblocks ( the newer monoblocks are too expensive for me for now) and power the 803Di - they will go down to 4ohms which the CA5300 does not. Then I will have the 5 channels from CA5300 to drive my center, surrounds and rears.

2. Buy another CA5300 and use four amps from there to run my surrounds and rears.

3. Get a CA2300 to add to my CA5300 and use them for the 803d - since they go to 4ohms.

Which options in your opinion will the system sound better? - Biamp with the 5300 versus the CAM350 monoblocks versus CA 2300? Will the fact that the CAM350 and 5300 are of diff series affect the sound if the 5300 is driving the center channel?

Also in my current setup the input levels from my Denon to the Center channel has to be raised to about +4 versus the 803Di which are -4. Is this big input diff due to biamping? or is it because it is the HTM4d and would be more closer if it was HTM2D? DOes the extra increased center channel speaker level affect sound quality?

Thanks

[beden1]

I have the CAM-350s powering my 803Ds and love them. They are dynamic and sound sweet, as well, they enable the 803Ds to perform at peak levels.

My HTM2D is powered in a bi-amp connection to a CAV-150 (150 watts per channel). This amp also powers my side channels. I bump the center channel by 3db to balance the fronts. Ideally, you would want to have the same power for the front end, but, I like my CAM-350s so much for music that I am willing to sacrifice the small differences that I notice for HT.

A Classe dealer told me last year that the CAM-350s are still his favorite amps, and you can get a good deal for them on Audiogon!

[Srrndhound]

1. Buy the CAM350 monoblocks ( the newer monoblocks are too expensive for me for now) and power the 803Di - they will go down to 4ohms which the CA5300 does not. Then I will have the 5 channels from CA5300 to drive my center, surrounds and rears.

3. Get a CA2300 to add to my CA5300 and use them for the 803d - since they go to 4ohms.

Why do you say the CA5300 cannot drive 4 ohm speakers? It certainly can. The owner's manual rates IM into 4 ohms.

[spykids777]

Why do you say the CA5300 cannot drive 4 ohm speakers? It certainly can. The owner's manual rates IM into 4 ohms.

Hi,

It may be able to drive a 4ohm speaker but unlike the other amps the output of the speakers do not increase for 4ohm speakers. I was told by Classe rep that that was the main difference between the 5300 and the other amps in the new series.

[spykids777]

I have the CAM-350s powering my 803Ds and love them. They are dynamic and sound sweet, as well, they enable the 803Ds to perform at peak levels.

My HTM2D is powered in a bi-amp connection to a CAV-150 (150 watts per channel). This amp also powers my side channels. I bump the center channel by 3db to balance the fronts. Ideally, you would want to have the same power for the front end, but, I like my CAM-350s so much for music that I am willing to sacrifice the small differences that I notice for HT.

A Classe dealer told me last year that the CAM-350s are still his favorite amps, and you can get a good deal for them on Audiogon!

Hi,
Do you think I would notice a difference in the sound quality with different series amp powering the mains and the center channel? since the 350 are Class A/B and the 5300 is Class D amp?


MY mistake - CA5300 is not a class D Amp.

[style]

CA5300 classe D?? 8O

Are you sure??

[Srrndhound]

Hi,

It may be able to drive a 4ohm speaker but unlike the other amps the output of the speakers do not increase for 4ohm speakers.

So? If 300W is loud enough from an 8-ohm speaker, is it not loud enough from a 4-ohm speaker?

[beden1]

Hi,
Do you think I would notice a difference in the sound quality with different series amp powering the mains and the center channel? since the 350 are Class A/B and the 5300 is Class D amp?

I just realized that you have a CA5300 amp. Not that I have heard the amp as yet, but you have 300 watts per channel. I would just use this amp to power the 5 individual speakers. It should have plenty of power to handle any and all demands, and there is no need to bi-amp at all!

I will have to look it up, but the CA5300 is a Class A/B amp. I don't think Classe makes a Class D amp?

[Glen B]

Hi,
Do you think I would notice a difference in the sound quality with different series amp powering the mains and the center channel? since the 350 are Class A/B and the 5300 is Class D amp?

FWIW, the CAM-350s, like certain other Classé amps, are adaptive bias class AB, although this is something the manufacturer has never touted. Bias is kept relatively low when the amp is at idle, to minimize heat. As output under the load increases, the bias is also increased, eliminating the crossover distortion of typical class AB designs. This information came directly from Robert Adam at Classé late last year. The CAM-350s run in class A up to 110W, approximately 1/3 of power (this fact noted in the 2001 Stereophile Magazine product review).

[spykids777]

FWIW, the CAM-350s, like certain other Classé amps, are adaptive bias class AB, although this is something the manufacturer has never touted. Bias is kept relatively low when the amp is at idle, to minimize heat. As output under the load increases, the bias is also increased, eliminating the crossover distortion of typical class AB designs. This information came directly from Robert Adam at Classé late last year. The CAM-350s run in class A up to 110W, approximately 1/3 of power (this fact noted in the 2001 Stereophile Magazine product review).

I am just learning about Amps. HOw will this affect the type/quality of sound coming from the 803D versus the HTM4d center channel? Is it anything that you can notice?

[Glen B]

So? If 300W is loud enough from an 8-ohm speaker, is it not loud enough from a 4-ohm speaker?

Yes, however, with 4 ohm speakers, the amp will be required to deliver twice the current, placing greater strain on its power supply and output stage. In theory, the CAM-350 should perform better on 4 ohm loads than the CA-5300, which apparently does not double down like most other Classé amps. That limitation may be understandable when you consider the AC power input requirements and amplifier real estate it would take to maintain an output of 600W x 5, all channels driven into 4 ohms.

[style]

Hi spykids777,

I think you are confused.....

you will have all the info over Classe. ok.

your target is a 7.1 system: i have a ca5300 for the center and L&R in bi-amp.
this first choice is not the top: I have try with my old CA5200 the same to do.
bi-amp the L&R (B&W803D) dont is the same like biamping with 2 separate amplifier (like CA2200, CA2300,...) The sound is very different! really!
(the stereo biamp give a sound much much better vs. a 5 channle bi-amp)

I life in Europa and have a CAM350 is a dream! very rare, Beden have this amplifier and go sure not to sell it. ( :T )

go with a monoblock for the front L&R. the top solution. (if you can have a Cam350 go this last. or 2x CAM400 , 2 cam300, but a single CA2300 give you a great sound.
All Classe ampli are in A - AB class.
for the center and the rear (SR and SRB) use the CA5300.
try so. I have to the 803DI and 300watt are more as enough.
listen your system with the denon and se is the "Denon audissey" give you satisfaction. if yes you can go with a new CP800 for listen in pure stereo your system.

have a pre & amplifier from the same "Brand" over the papier is better but try before purchase the SSP800. (that is the Top processor available !- price/perfomance, great sound in stereo - the same that gice you a CP700 - ...)

I think you will a HT system at firs and not a 2.0 allready the SSP is the best solution. ampil & pre from the sme brand give you a big jump in the high end.

you much is your room? dedicat room or what, event. problem with room form, acoustic,...?

Style

[spykids777]

Hi spykids777,

I think you are confused.....

you will have all the info over Classe. ok.

your target is a 7.1 system: i have a ca5300 for the center and L&R in bi-amp.
this first choice is not the top: I have try with my old CA5200 the same to do.
bi-amp the L&R (B&W803D) dont is the same like biamping with 2 separate amplifier (like CA2200, CA2300,...) The sound is very different! really!
(the stereo biamp give a sound much much better vs. a 5 channle bi-amp)

I life in Europa and have a CAM350 is a dream! very rare, Beden have this amplifier and go sure not to sell it. ( :T )

go with a monoblock for the front L&R. the top solution. (if you can have a Cam350 go this last. or 2x CAM400 , 2 cam300, but a single CA2300 give you a great sound.
All Classe ampli are in A - AB class.
for the center and the rear (SR and SRB) use the CA5300.
try so. I have to the 803DI and 300watt are more as enough.
listen your system with the denon and se is the "Denon audissey" give you satisfaction. if yes you can go with a new CP800 for listen in pure stereo your system.

have a pre & amplifier from the same "Brand" over the papier is better but try before purchase the SSP800. (that is the Top processor available !- price/perfomance, great sound in stereo - the same that gice you a CP700 - ...)

I think you will a HT system at firs and not a 2.0 allready the SSP is the best solution. ampil & pre from the sme brand give you a big jump in the high end.

you much is your room? dedicat room or what, event. problem with room form, acoustic,...?

Style

Thanks for your reply. Would you say that CA 2300 for the Fronts will be better than the CAM350 or would you choose the CAM350 if you had the choise? ALso how useful is the CANBUS utility since the CAM350 does not have the CANBUS and I eventually plan to buy the SSP800?

[beden1]

Thanks for your reply. Would you say that CA 2300 for the Fronts will be better than the CAM350 or would you choose the CAM350 if you had the choise? ALso how useful is the CANBUS utility since the CAM350 does not have the CANBUS and I eventually plan to buy the SSP800?

You will not be able to trigger the CAM-350s off with the SSP-800 with the CANBUS. I have to manually turn them on and off, but I can think of harder things to do in life.

I have not listened to the CA-2300s either, so I can't comment for a comparison. You may want to ask your dealer if you have a good relationship with them, and if you feel they will give you an honest answer (since they will not be selling you the CAM-350s).

Having all of the same generation of electronics makes things easier and more uniform in appearance. But, I like the way my system sounds and don't have any intention of changing anything in the future except for a new Blu-Ray player like an Oppo.

[wettou]

Hi,
Do you think I would notice a difference in the sound quality with different series amp powering the mains and the center channel? since the 350 are Class A/B and the 5300 is Class D amp?

the 5300 is class A/B not class D

http://www.classeaudio.com/delta/delta-ca5300.htm

[style]

the Cam350 is very very rare. so I say CA/ CT2300 for the front.

if you can have a pair of Cam350 at good price is sure a very good alternative.
Can Bus like wrote beden is the last thing.....


SSP80 - Ca5300 for center and rear SR L&R + SRB L&R. a Ca 2300 for the front or if you have the forune the find a Cam 350 (maybe not so expensive like a ca2300) go with him.


Classe , like wrote work in a/ ab class. :T
style

[Srrndhound]

Yes, however, with 4 ohm speakers, the amp will be required to deliver twice the current, placing greater strain on its power supply and output stage.

In my earlier post, I had assumed that the power requirement for an 8 ohm and a 4 ohm speaker would be the same for equal SPL. If that is true, then the power supply will not know the difference.

In theory, the CAM-350 should perform better on 4 ohm loads than the CA-5300, which apparently does not double down like most other Classé amps.

As long as we are not talking about clipping the amp output, the ability of an amp to control a 4 ohm load is its output impedance. That seems as low on the 5300 as other Classe amps. That the power output does not double has no bearing on this.

[spykids777]

You will not be able to trigger the CAM-350s off with the SSP-800 with the CANBUS. I have to manually turn them on and off, but I can think of harder things to do in life.

I have not listened to the CA-2300s either, so I can't comment for a comparison. You may want to ask your dealer if you have a good relationship with them, and if you feel they will give you an honest answer (since they will not be selling you the CAM-350s).

Having all of the same generation of electronics makes things easier and more uniform in appearance. But, I like the way my system sounds and don't have any intention of changing anything in the future except for a new Blu-Ray player like an Oppo.

Hi,
Thanks for all your replies. Can you control your CAM350 using the IR trigger out from the SSP800 into the IR trigger of the CAM350?

[beden1]

Hi,
Thanks for all your replies. Can you control your CAM350 using the IR trigger out from the SSP800 into the IR trigger of the CAM350?

No, it does not work. I went around and around with this with Classe when I was using my CP-500 pre-amp. Originally, Classe said it should work, and when it didn't, they had me send in my CP-500 to be checked out. While there, they told me that they forgot that it did not work between different product generations.

The SSP-800 also will not trigger the CAM-350s because they are a different product generation.

Classe makes me mad that they don't make their products compatible between different generations. At least their products sound good, because this certainly is not looking out for their customer's interests.

[Skyblue]

No, it does not work. I went around and around with this with Classe when I was using my CP-500 pre-amp. Originally, Classe said it should work, and when it didn't, they had me send in my CP-500 to be checked out. While there, they told me that they forgot that it did not work between different product generations.

The SSP-800 also will not trigger the CAM-350s because they are a different product generation.


Classe makes me mad that they don't make their products compatible between different generations. At least their products sound good, because this certainly is not looking out for their customer's interests.

Hmm would it work between cam 600's and ssp800 or are they also different product generations?

[Oddiophile]

Hmm would it work between cam 600's and ssp800 or are they also different product generations?

I have 3 CA-M600 for my front 3 channels and the SSP-800 combination with Canbus and it works just fine. I also have 2XCA-200 amps (previous generation) for my surround amps hooked into the same Canbus system with no problems. My 3 CA-M600s were substituted for 3 CA-M400s.

Hope this helps.

Jim

[beden1]

I have 3 CA-M600 for my front 3 channels and the SSP-800 combination with Canbus and it works just fine. I also have 2XCA-200 amps (previous generation) for my surround amps hooked into the same Canbus system with no problems. My 3 CA-M600s were substituted for 3 CA-M400s.

Hope this helps.

Jim

Your CA-200s and CA-M600s are all still the same Delta series amps, and all Delta Series work together through the CANBUS. The CAM-350s are the Series before the Delta Series which is why they don't work together.

[Skyblue]

I have 3 CA-M600 for my front 3 channels and the SSP-800 combination with Canbus and it works just fine. I also have 2XCA-200 amps (previous generation) for my surround amps hooked into the same Canbus system with no problems. My 3 CA-M600s were substituted for 3 CA-M400s.

Hope this helps.

Jim

Excellent, thanks. Now, how does it sound?

[Oddiophile]

Your CA-200s and CA-M600s are all still the same Delta series amps, and all Delta Series work together through the CANBUS. The CAM-350s are the Series before the Delta Series which is why they don't work together.

I realize that the CAM-350s are previous to the Delta Series but Skyblue was asking specifically about the CA-M600 and SSP-800 combination

Jim

[Maverick71]

Hi,

I never heard the CAM350 but have some experience with the CA2200, CA3200 and CA5200 that I currently own on my setup (pics here:http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpos...ostcount=3442).

Yesterday I brought home a CA2300 for testing as I am considering trading my CA5200 for a CA2200+CA3200 combo hence living me the possibility to sell just the CA2200 and buy a new CA2300 for the front channels.
I guess I was curious about the new circuit topology and increased power, but, to be honest, I was expecting to hear small diferences that would lead me to a situation where I felt although I'd be happier with the new CA2300, I would be almost as happy with the CA2200.

I was wrong.

At the first sounds, the music sounded 'cleaner' mainly on voices and with more punch and grunt. Sorry for the choice of words, but this is the best as I can describe what I felt. I believe this new series is definately an improvement over the old ones and, at least on my setup, one that makes sense in every way. I felt a bit concerned about the the fan as my room is treated and dead silent. In total silence you can hear it if you concentrate hard enough, but with music (or probably in a non silent room) you can't.

My CA2200 is on sale now and my day to day worry is how will I live without the CA2300 if the CA2200 doesn't go . Fingers crossed!

Mav