Hooking Up 2 Classe Amps ?

[garrison]

Please bear with me here but I have a question on suggestions hooking up 2 milti-channel amps. Below are 2 different options

7.2 SYSTEM

New Classe CA-5300 (being delivered this week)
New Classe SSP-800 1.4 (being delivered this week)
Existing Classe CA-5100

SPEAKERS

803D L&R
HTM2D Center
4 805S for rear and center surround
2 JL Audio gotham's (being delivered this week)

OPTION 1:

I was planning on hooking the new CA-5300 to the front 3 left, Right, Center, and mid 805 surround

I was planning on hooking the CA-5100 BI-amped to the rear 805's and not use one channel

803D's 300 watts ea.
HTM2D 300 watts
805 mid surround 300 watts ea
805 rear surround bi-amped 200 watts each

This seems like an even distribution of power considering the 2 amps I have. The rear surround would be the only pair bi-amped and 100 watts less power going to them than the rest of the system..

OPTION 2:

BI-amp the new CA-5300 to the 803D's left and right
5th channel from the CA-5300 to the center HTM2D

Existing CA-5100 use 4 channels and run to the 4 805S surround channels. Still one channel on this amp not being used....

Bi-amped 803D's (600 watts)
HTM2D (300 watts)
4 805's (100 watts each)

My question is that the front three would have different power running to them and could this cause a major difference during movies? However bi-amping the left and right and having 600 watts going into them could be incredible... Then the 4 surround would have significantly less than the front at only 100 watts ea. My question is that the front left and right might drown out the rest of the system?? I know you can dial it in but would it be better the way explaing in the first set up?

Very interesting delima and could use suggestions

[Srrndhound]

Congrats on the new gear. Are they really shipping the new HDMI 1.4 units already? I thought they said December earliest...?

Anyway, when bi-wiring, while you have 2 amplifiers involved, you cannot add their powers together for purposes of comparing drive capability relative to other single amplifier channels. The 100w amps have 100w on tap whether bi-wired or not.

If you run the L/R 803Ds crossed over at 40 Hz, and run all the other speakers at 80 Hz, that will help balance the loads for the amps as well as balance the speaker stresses for loud movie peaks. You might also like the result for 2-ch listening as more of the 803D's bass range is used.

I'd go with Option 2: use the CA5300 to drive L/C/R, and the CA5100 to drive the 4 surrounds. If for some reason you like using more speaker wire, then bi-wire the L/R and now all the 5300 amps are in the pool.

There will be no occasion where these differing amplifier power ratings will lead to speakers dominating the presentation. They all have the same gain, and all will be level calibrated via the SSP-800.

[garrison]

They have started shipping the HDMI 1.4. I'm supposedly one of the first few to ship. It went out last thursday along with the new CA-5300. I'm excited about both!!

I'm a little confused on your answer. I wasn't adding the two amps together. I was talking about using 2 of the channels from 1 amp and running to one speaker. You can do this with a splitter. If you have a CA-5100 which is 5X100 and you use 2 of those 100 channels to bi-wire a single speaker, wouldn't you then have that speaker running on 200 watts of power?

[mjb]

garrison, use your shiny new 5300 for the front 3 for sure, then use the remaining two channels for whatever is furthest from your listening position behind, probably the surrounds. Use two channels of the 5100 for the rears. If you want to experiment with bi-amping, use 4 channels (2 per load, with a Y cable) for the rears, but I'm not sure it will bring you much. You could trade the 5100 for a 2100 or similar if idling power comsumption is a concern of yours.

Bi-wiring, and bi-amping are not the same, there are thousands of threads on this, so search if you want to clarify. Always use decent speaker cable. If you hear an improvement bi-wiring, then you should have used thicker speaker cable in the first place.

[mjb]

If you have a CA-5100 which is 5X100 and you use 2 of those 100 channels to bi-wire a single speaker, wouldn't you then have that speaker running on 200 watts of power?

First you mean BI-AMP, and second, No! The power does not add up like this. In addition, strictly speaking, bi-amping requires removing the crossover from the speaker and using active filters before the power amp. Just hooking up an amp to the high, and an amp to the low with a passive splitter cable will actually bring very little, especially when you are using top quality Amplifiers anyway.

[Srrndhound]

I'm a little confused on your answer. I wasn't adding the two amps together. I was talking about using 2 of the channels from 1 amp and running to one speaker. You can do this with a splitter. If you have a CA-5100 which is 5X100 and you use 2 of those 100 channels to bi-wire a single speaker, wouldn't you then have that speaker running on 200 watts of power?

If the woofer is driven by a 100w amp, and the tweeter is driven by a 100w amp, then it is the same, as far as loudness capability is concerned, as when driving both the woofer and tweeter together from a single 100w amp.

[style]

Hi,

the CA5200/5300 in bi amp dont pay .... ....like a 2 x CA2200

Personally I dont will do to bi-amp a aplifier like the CA5300....:
and with the 803D 300watt ar more as enough....with a 802D I can understand situation with a 2xCA2200 in bi-amp vertical in other eventuality NO.

4 x 805S for surround? uhmm 2 OK and 2 celling speaker or other !

You have a dvd-bluray in original registration with 7.1? never see...
I will make option3: sell the CA5100 and go with a 804DI as surround in a 5.2 system.
??? the 803D are DI or what?
how much is the room?

the bi amplification with a multichannel amplifier is not a "good thing" = dont pay in performance like you can think... ( I have try this option and a bi-amp from a CA5200 is not a so impressive upgrate....)
I will go with a great 5.2 and not in a 7.2 system....the CA5300 run fine so like it's: other "manipulation" can give you a bad surprise!!!


well thi is my opinion: a great ca5300 is fantastic: you don't need extra bi amp or others!

I had a CA5200 and I have sold it for a CA3200 & CA2200.

have a 7.x or maybe a 9.x :rofl: is a very fun history nothing more.

gretings style

[ray5]

Two Jl audio Gothams! 8O ! Hope you have a strong foundation!! What does it sound like with both of them firing?
Ray

[garrison]

Two Jl audio Gothams! 8O ! Hope you have a strong foundation!! What does it sound like with both of them firing?
Ray

I'm having all this delivered this week so I hope it's going to sound great!!! :T

[garrison]

Hi,

the CA5200/5300 in bi amp dont pay .... ....like a 2 x CA2200

Personally I dont will do to bi-amp a aplifier like the CA5300....:
and with the 803D 300watt ar more as enough....with a 802D I can understand situation with a 2xCA2200 in bi-amp vertical in other eventuality NO.

4 x 805S for surround? uhmm 2 OK and 2 celling speaker or other !

You have a dvd-bluray in original registration with 7.1? never see...
I will make option3: sell the CA5100 and go with a 804DI as surround in a 5.2 system.
??? the 803D are DI or what?
how much is the room?

the bi amplification with a multichannel amplifier is not a "good thing" = dont pay in performance like you can think... ( I have try this option and a bi-amp from a CA5200 is not a so impressive upgrate....)
I will go with a great 5.2 and not in a 7.2 system....the CA5300 run fine so like it's: other "manipulation" can give you a bad surprise!!!


well thi is my opinion: a great ca5300 is fantastic: you don't need extra bi amp or others!

I had a CA5200 and I have sold it for a CA3200 & CA2200.

have a 7.x or maybe a 9.x :rofl: is a very fun history nothing more.

gretings style

Style,

my 805's side surround are great. Can't see downsizing to 5.2. The new HDMI 1.4 is also supposed to generate better processing for 7.1. There are 7.1 dvd's out now. Had them playing on my old processor with the CA-5100 and 2 channel amp for the extra channels and it was nice. If I get rid of the 805's it will be for 4 805DI's as another upgrade. That will be my last upgrade. After all of this I plan on upgrading the front three to 802DI's and the new matching center...

G

[garrison]

First you mean BI-AMP, and second, No! The power does not add up like this. In addition, strictly speaking, bi-amping requires removing the crossover from the speaker and using active filters before the power amp. Just hooking up an amp to the high, and an amp to the low with a passive splitter cable will actually bring very little, especially when you are using top quality Amplifiers anyway.

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like I should go with option #1 then?

G

[garrison]

garrison, use your shiny new 5300 for the front 3 for sure, then use the remaining two channels for whatever is furthest from your listening position behind, probably the surrounds. Use two channels of the 5100 for the rears. If you want to experiment with bi-amping, use 4 channels (2 per load, with a Y cable) for the rears, but I'm not sure it will bring you much. You could trade the 5100 for a 2100 or similar if idling power comsumption is a concern of yours.

Bi-wiring, and bi-amping are not the same, there are thousands of threads on this, so search if you want to clarify. Always use decent speaker cable. If you hear an improvement bi-wiring, then you should have used thicker speaker cable in the first place.

This sounds like the consensus so far other than you recommend using the last 2 channels of the CA-5300 to the rear surround and the CA-5100 to the side surrounds. So far most everyone suggest the option 1 from what I can tell. Should have everything this Friday. Can't wait.. Feel like a kid waiting on Christmas!

Thanks

[ray5]

I having all this delivered this week so I hope it's going to sound great!!! :T

Keep us posted. The local weather office should be warned to ignore earthquake rumbles from your direction!!!

[garrison]

Keep us posted. The local weather office should be warned to ignore earthquake rumbles from your direction!!!

That's great! I'm hoping it will be as good as I think it will be. :T

[garrison]

Hi,

the CA5200/5300 in bi amp dont pay .... ....like a 2 x CA2200

Personally I dont will do to bi-amp a aplifier like the CA5300....:
and with the 803D 300watt ar more as enough....with a 802D I can understand situation with a 2xCA2200 in bi-amp vertical in other eventuality NO.

4 x 805S for surround? uhmm 2 OK and 2 celling speaker or other !

You have a dvd-bluray in original registration with 7.1? never see...
I will make option3: sell the CA5100 and go with a 804DI as surround in a 5.2 system.
??? the 803D are DI or what?
how much is the room?

the bi amplification with a multichannel amplifier is not a "good thing" = dont pay in performance like you can think... ( I have try this option and a bi-amp from a CA5200 is not a so impressive upgrate....)
I will go with a great 5.2 and not in a 7.2 system....the CA5300 run fine so like it's: other "manipulation" can give you a bad surprise!!!


well thi is my opinion: a great ca5300 is fantastic: you don't need extra bi amp or others!

I had a CA5200 and I have sold it for a CA3200 & CA2200.

have a 7.x or maybe a 9.x :rofl: is a very fun history nothing more.

gretings style

Style,

Attached is web site with info on 7.1 dvd

http://reviews.cnet.com/4321-6463_7-6644614.html

G

[wettou]

First you mean BI-AMP, and second, No! The power does not add up like this. In addition, strictly speaking, bi-amping requires removing the crossover from the speaker and using active filters before the power amp. Just hooking up an amp to the high, and an amp to the low with a passive splitter cable will actually bring very little, especially when you are using top quality Amplifiers anyway.

Yes thank you finaly someone who understands. Much better to just have on good amp with plenty of power like the CA-M600 :T

[garrison]

Yes thank you finaly someone who understands. Much better to just have on good amp with plenty of power like the CA-M600 :T

Well maybe I've made a mistake to keep the CA-5100. I could get rid of it. Buy 2 CA-M600's for my left and right. Then use the CA-5300 for the center and 4 surround??

Maybe that would be much better... but also more $$$$.. Not sure how much the CA-M600's would cost???

Always an option for the future. If I upgrade the 803D to the 802DI this could be an option at that time.

[ray5]

Well maybe I've made a mistake to keep the CA-5100. I could get rid of it. Buy 2 CA-M600's for my left and right. Then use the CA-5300 for the center and 4 surround??

Maybe that would be much better... but also more $$$$.. Not sure how much the CA-M600's would cost???

Always an option for the future. If I upgrade the 803D to the 802DI this could be an option at that time.

CAm600 are $7000 a piece retail. Man, you have a solid system coming. Would love to hear it!!!

[wettou]

CAm600 are $7000 a piece retail. Man, you have a solid system coming. Would love to hear it!!!

Yes I was thinking

Three 802Di $21,000 + three CAM600 $21,000 Total $42,000 :roll:

I think I will just change my car and leave this alone

[style]

Garrison, and a bluray with a trachs native in 7.1? maybe with the 192hz??

the SSP800 with the 1.4 can have a little more (or much more) but for my and is only MY OPINION
a SSP800 (and I have purchased 2x SSP800)
a CA5300
802DI ok I agree, 2x 805 I agree too
maybe 2 x 804DI in place from 4 805DI is better :T

a graet CD player (esoteric,marantz, new primare cd32) with Sacd and a good bluray player (the Oppo in USA with the SE version) or another with a TT as extra iand you have a Top system. I have sold my ca5200 for buy a CA2200 & CA3200 : a new x 5 multichannel amplifier dont will no more in my wishlist.
in Europa a multichannel is very "down", the people is a 2 channel fans and dont have like in Usa so interessed to the big, heavy, "hot"...

the sacd is dead? I dont think, the bluray music cd are always more present in the market but why is a nice news , a new sacd sound good like a bluray and is great, man!!!

long "war" from 2 channle systemand the "lover" from the HT system....
I love HT and for me the 5.0 with a 300watt for each channel with 802DI and 804D is a great choice. The SSP800 with the 1.4 update go in a good upgrade for a pictures 3D but the sound does not go far forward ... we are already at super...and the CP800 is already to start!!!!

for a 7.1 and the 802DI you need a around 60 m2 to have the max fun!
my "room" is 60m2 and I don't can imagine a 7 system speakers.

the bluray top in soun with the SSP is a SaraK. and the label 2L from Norway : 96/24. Great. why you need 7 speakers?

greetings Style

[garrison]

Garrison, and a bluray with a trachs native in 7.1? maybe with the 192hz??

the SSP800 with the 1.4 can have a little more (or much more) but for my and is only MY OPINION
a SSP800 (and I have purchased 2x SSP800)
a CA5300
802DI ok I agree, 2x 805 I agree too
maybe 2 x 804DI in place from 4 805DI is better :T

a graet CD player (esoteric,marantz, new primare cd32) with Sacd and a good bluray player (the Oppo in USA with the SE version) or another with a TT as extra iand you have a Top system. I have sold my ca5200 for buy a CA2200 & CA3200 : a new x 5 multichannel amplifier dont will no more in my wishlist.
in Europa a multichannel is very "down", the people is a 2 channel fans and dont have like in Usa so interessed to the big, heavy, "hot"...

the sacd is dead? I dont think, the bluray music cd are always more present in the market but why is a nice news , a new sacd sound good like a bluray and is great, man!!!

long "war" from 2 channle systemand the "lover" from the HT system....
I love HT and for me the 5.0 with a 300watt for each channel with 802DI and 804D is a great choice. The SSP800 with the 1.4 update go in a good upgrade for a pictures 3D but the sound does not go far forward ... we are already at super...and the CP800 is already to start!!!!

for a 7.1 and the 802DI you need a around 60 m2 to have the max fun!
my "room" is 60m2 and I don't can imagine a 7 system speakers.

the bluray top in soun with the SSP is a SaraK. and the label 2L from Norway : 96/24. Great. why you need 7 speakers?

greetings Style

Style,

Thanks for all the info..

G

[wettou]

(and I have purchased 2x SSP800)

Woa I hope they gave you a good discount :T

[RebelMan]

Congrats on the new gear. Are they really shipping the new HDMI 1.4 units already? I thought they said December earliest...?

To clarify, the new HDMI 1.4 upgrade board will not be available until December as has been stated in the HDMI 1.4 Upgrade Kit thread. The HDMI 1.4 equipped SSP-800 will be available November/December as has been stated in the Official SSP-800 Thread. A slight distinction that could easily be overlooked.

[RebelMan]

garrison, for HT applications either option is viable but neither will yield you the benefit I think you are looking for. You will not incur any improvement in sound quality with either configuration. Unless your bass management settings are completely out of whack and/or you insist on continuous reference level SPLs (95dB+) you will not clip any of amps in question. By then the police will be banging at your door anyway.

What it boils down to, with your system, is which option is going to be easiest for you to connect. That would be Option 3 aka Option 2 sans any bi-amping. A simplified solution is the cleanest solution and Option 3 would give you that without any loss of sound quality or loudness. In addition, if and when you are ready to take the leap to critical 2CH listening (if you haven't already considered it) this option would be the easiest to adapt the L/R for bi-amping for that time when you think the demands of the 803D will need it.

So go with Option 3 for now and see what you need as you learn to adapt to your system. It gives you the most flexibility and saves you some wiring complexity.

[garrison]

garrison, for HT applications either option is viable but neither will yield you the benefit I think you are looking for. You will not incur any improvement in sound quality with either configuration. Unless your bass management settings are completely out of whack and/or you insist on continuous reference level SPLs (95dB+) you will not clip any of amps in question. By then the police will be banging at your door anyway.

What it boils down to, with your system, is which option is going to be easiest for you to connect. That would be Option 3 aka Option 2 sans any bi-amping. A simplified solution is the cleanest solution and Option 3 would give you that without any loss of sound quality or loudness. In addition, if and when you are ready to take the leap to critical 2CH listening (if you haven't already considered it) this option would be the easiest to adapt the L/R for bi-amping for that time when you think the demands of the 803D will need it.

So go with Option 3 for now and see what you need as you learn to adapt to your system. It gives you the most flexibility and saves you some wiring complexity.

Rebel,

Thanks for the info. I'm going with option 1 for now. Spoke with my local dealer and this was his suggestion. He said there would be no reason to bi-amp the front L/R with this CA-5300.. That it has plenty of power and even suggested if I make another upgrade in the future that Mono blocks would be a waste of money. Suggested a CA2300 for stereo listening to compliment the CA-5300 as replacement for the CA-5100 I have, and it will be all I ever need.... I haven't heard from them this week but everything is supposed to get to their shop tomorrow and install on Friday.. Keeping my fingers crossed!!!

[RebelMan]

The proposed Option 3 does not include bi-amping but it gives you the option to bi-amp down the road if you felt you needed to or wanted to. Option 1 will bi-amp the rears. Is that what you are going to do? It's not necessary to do that either provided you set BM up correctly.

[style]

Garrison if you will a 7 channel system I agree with Rebelman:
a CA5300and the CA2300 for the L/R.
(I mad the same but for a 5 channel, the 7 channel opnion is not in my head..)
a CA3200 for the surrond and venter and a CA2200 for the L&R.

and for you this is a CA5300 for the center and the surround: a CA2300 for the L&R.
at today with the B&W803D you have enough power...so in a future if is really our wish / desire you can always go with a extra CA2300 in vi.ampli vertical for the L&R (and a great stereo system)

like wrote Rebelman: " ..it's gives you the most flexibility and saves you some wiring complexity." and this is not a point to dont be considered!!

The bi-amp from a CA5300 dont sound like a 2x CA2300 in bi-amp: sure.
(over the paper is very similar each channel in the CA53 is a "single units"
but with the alimantation inside the amplifier the resultat is not the same)
i had bi.amp my CA5200 --> yes is better but nothing vs. a 2x CA2200 in bimap.
the music is more transparent, dynamic, Live!!
if you go with a 802DI and 2 x CA2300 bi amp you will be the more happy man "over the world"..... well you can try with "single CA2300 and with couple of CA23.... than is our perosnal taste.

greetings Style

[Tweir]

I would use the 5300 for the center channel and with the classe processor you have 3 aux channels to freely assign. So you could use 4 channels of the 5300 for the 803d's to bi-amp. This would give you a 300 watt amp per mid/tweeter and 300 watts to the bass on the 803d. That would use all channels on that amp then use the ca5100 for the reaming 4 surrounds with one channel not utilized on the 5100. This is how I would set it up.

[Tweir]

I forgot you have two subs. The last aux channel you have left you could use for the second sub since the ssp-800 already has one sub out. This would give you a mono LFE to both subs or stereo subs if you wish. That would sound very nice.....

[garrison]

Well my new SSP-800 HDMI 1.4 came in today. However, the CA-5300 didn't.. California has some kind of regulation that when electronics are in standby they can only pull 1 watt.. The CA-5300 isn't set up this way and didn't pass California specs. Classe is having to reprogram the CA-5300 to only draw 1 watt while in standby to be able to ship out here... Looks like I'm going to have to wait another week. Estimated 5 to 7 days extra... SUCKS!!

My dealer offered to come and hook up the new SSP-800 1.4 to my existing CA-5100 but I told them that would be a waste of time if they have to come back next week and dial everything in for the Ca-5300... A least they offered.... Looks like I'm still down for a while...

[Srrndhound]

The SSP-800 draws more than 1 watt, too. How did they get around that?