Upgrading to Delta 600 amplifiers?

**mjb** · 05 October 2010, 04:55 Tuesday

Why do you want to upgrade, are you unhappy with your current set up? I would most certainly say your 400's are "adequate". I should imagine the new amps are very similar inside, the only real difference being the new wind tunnel and fan arrangement. Being able to accurately control the device temperatures, probably means they can safely drive them a bit harder, hence the moderate increase in output. Personally, I would only consider changing if I was having problems cooling my current amps, but 3 grand (per amp) seems a lot to pay to loose the front panel lights and listen to fan noise (however soft). Having said that, perhaps someone who's heard them will say they're the absolute pinnacle. Even if thats true, is it worth to upgrade?

**Skyblue** · 05 October 2010, 10:54 Tuesday

I heard that the new amps should be more musical. However, not from a relieable witness.

Isnt it possible to have a home audition?

**Oddiophile** · 05 October 2010, 17:42 Tuesday

Originally posted by Skyblue

I heard that the new amps should be more musical. However, not from a relieable witness.

Isnt it possible to have a home audition?

Hi,

A home audition would be very difficult. I would almost certainly have to do the 5 1/2 hour trip from Saskatoon to Edmonton to audition the 600s.

The tiny little bit that I heard about these amps is that they have more "slam" than the 400s. This would suit me just fine as I think that this is where these otherwise superb amps are a little bit lacking.

Previously, I had the equivalent Krell amps. These had the "slam" but not the other qualities that the CA-M400s have. I much prefer the Classe amps.

Jim

**Eliav** · 05 October 2010, 23:13 Tuesday

I have auditioned the cam600 last saturday. They were hooked up to the 800di's. the cam400 were not available so we did an AB comparison with the Krell Evo 400watts monoblocks.
I paid a special attention to the vent's noise. it is not audiable unless you are about 2-3" far from the amplifier.
Will put together a more detailed report on my impression with these guys later on this weekend.
Thanks

**rickc** · 08 October 2010, 17:58 Friday

Please let us know what you thought about the
new Classe 600. We would also like to know what preamp, cables and source that they used for your audition?

Thanks

**Eliav** · 10 October 2010, 12:46 Sunday

Classe 600- my first impression

Hi
This is a short summary of my first impression with the CAM600 ;

Background : came to this audition biased. I was ready to recognize the CAM 600 sounded better than my CAM400.
since the dealer did not have the cam400, we used Krell Evo 400 monoblocks Vs Classe cam600.
Setup : The dealer’s listening room, had a big window ( the wall behind the demo speakers) and one window on the right hand wall. There were a few mid-high frequency acoustic traps at the first deflection points. There were no bass traps. There were 4 demo speakers ( not participating in the demo) lined against the wall facing the listener, and a big subwoofer ( not connected). I thought this was important to mention since these speakers and windows do resonate in a way that may color the sound reproduction from the systems I auditioned.

source ; digital media storage; Music recorded from HD music DVD, edited through computer software for HD two channel listening. CHORD DAC QBD 76 . Classe CP700 preamplifier.
Speakers : B&W 800Di. Distance between speakers 11 feet. Listening spot 11 feet away from each
Amplifiers : Classe CAM 600 Vs Krell EVO 400 monoblocks.
Cables : Kimber Kable ( speakers : KS 6068 if I am not wrong, not sure about interconnect cable model numbers)).
Music played : . Olu Dura ( in the river?), Patricia Barbara (Modern Cool), the persuasions ( singing Beatles). Diana Krall- (assorted tracks), and Fleetwood mac (assorted tracks).

First general impression, (just entering the listening room, music (Fleetwood Mac) was on, classe 600 on, ) :
My first impression was that musical detail was amazingly clear and tangible, imaging was very good yet somewhat lacked the "rear stage"' dimension ( room acoustics ?) . I thought that highs were at times a bit harsh. This was true for both amplifiers. I attributed the clarity of the music reproduced to the superior CD recordings and the excellent DAC ( all obviously compared to what I am used to at home with my system).
Classe cam 600 looked familiar and had the sleek smooth delta series appearance. Once turned “On”, the vents runs a self test audible sound , and quiets down completely. I approached the amplifiers rear end and could only hear the vent whisper from a few inches distance . OK, I relaxed, vents noise is not an issue.

In Patricia Barbara ‘s album imaging sounded great with great definition and clear space between the instruments. Highs were at times slightly harsh. Bass guitar was full and full of presence, yet somewhat smeared , somewhat bloated? . Drums sounded just right, may be a bit reserved.
We switched the amplifiers to Krell. The highs sounded very similar to the Classe, imaging was similarly great too. I thought the bass guitar sounded just a bit less smeared. Otherwise with this type of music, I thought that both amplifiers did a very good job with no advantage to either.

Based on my recollection of how my own system with the CAM 400 sounds, the lower frequencies overall sounded tighter here, and better defined within the general context of music ( DAC effect? Room acoustics ? quality of recording ? all combined?). definitely the dealer system regardless of amplifier used, sounded much more revealing and refined. I would say sometimes analytical.

My impression was fairly unchanged when I listened to Olu Dara, I thought the Classe sounded very detailed, with very clear tight bass, superb imaging, and over all tangible, crisp and crystal clear sound. The Krells did not sound much different with this type of music. I thought it was “dryer” with the lower frequencies, and a bit less musical then the Classe. With both, listening to volumes as high as 75dB only blew more life into music, I was not even close to feel fatigued. The Krells being 400watts “only”, never slacked behind the Classe when I turned the volume toward the 80dB’s. both sounded very powerful and controlled.

My disappointment with Classe came with the very last track : I played one of ” Persuasions” vocal tracks . The only players in this music reproduction was human voices, no musical instruments played.
I started auditioning the Krells first. I closed my eyes and had to wake up time and again, since the male voices sounded so real, I thought the dealer was saying something to me. I was shocked with how realistic human voice reproduction was . The bass vocals sounded clear and as real as I have ever heard from a CD recording. This track was played at 75dB . When switched to Classe, the clarity and definition of sound was definitely decreased. In particular, the bass singer sounded much less defined, less realistic and smeared, after one or two minutes of listening, I felt fatigued , and the dealer had to agree that this track sounded unpleasant to the least with Classe. I listened again, this time at 65dB. No change. Poorly defined bass vocals and overall presentation as compared to what the Krell reproduced.

In Summary : I was confused. I wanted to fall in love with the new Classe, it was very musical most of the time, reproduced lower frequencies very well, imaging was great, yet, there was a clear weakness that showed up with the last CD that possibly unveiled some weaknesses, at least with this setup, compared to the Krell Evo 400.

I think I am going to explore more about a source component as my next move toward an upgrade ( possibly high end DAC?). The cam600 were sweet in my opinion, yet not as perfect as I wanted to think.
Thanks

**Skyblue** · 10 October 2010, 17:11 Sunday

Nice writeup, thanks.

Well, even though this is a classe forum you dont have to love all things classe. maybe the cam600 isnt all that. The evo 400 arent bad either though.

If a home audition is out of the question, I would certainly consider a source upgrade. I got the ayre qb-9 and that is one amazing unit. Check out the computeraudiophile for reviews of other (and some better) dacs. Very worth while.

Oh and I ask you to post some notes of your impressions of the 800di's in the B&W forum?

**Eliav** · 10 October 2010, 20:21 Sunday

Hi
It is difficult to isolate the 800di's relative weight contribution to my overall impression from the systems I auditioned, It did sound amazing overall, yet i did not A/B compare it to the "old" 800d's. I can only say that my dealer thinks
" they are 30% more open and revealing, and their bass is tighter". on this one, I report, you decide :W
Thanks

**Eliav** · 10 October 2010, 20:51 Sunday

Skyblue
slightly out of topic, you may want to read this http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...h-should-I-buy.

It seems that the clinical sound I encountered when auditioning the systems is possibly a result of the DAC involvement. I am concerned about fatigue some commentators mentioned while listening for longer time. What is your impression with the synergy between Classe/B&W/ Ayre DAC ?
Thanks

**Skyblue** · 10 October 2010, 21:08 Sunday

Cant really comment on the combination, as I use it with a set of denon ah d5000 and a heed canamp. That however sounds amazing.

**sikoniko** · 10 October 2010, 23:15 Sunday

Originally posted by Eliav

Skyblue
slightly out of topic, you may want to read this http://www.computeraudiophile.com/co...h-should-I-buy.

It seems that the clinical sound I encountered when auditioning the systems is possibly a result of the DAC involvement. I am concerned about fatigue some commentators mentioned while listening for longer time. What is your impression with the synergy between Classe/B&W/ Ayre DAC ?
Thanks

While I enjoyed your opinion/review, I don't think we can take anything away conclusively other than the Krell's may have performed better in that room with that combination of equipment. It's funny how variable the sound can be with different components.

**Skyblue** · 11 October 2010, 03:15 Monday

Originally posted by sikoniko

While I enjoyed your opinion/review, I don't think we can take anything away conclusively other than the Krell's may have performed better in that room with that combination of equipment. It's funny how variable the sound can be with different components.

Mr. Charles Hansen of Ayre, once wrote that when they tested new gear, it would sometimes sound different if they moved it to different spots in the room. While this sounds strange, my sound did improve when I moved my qb-9 away from the computer... Why, I think electric pollution, but it really shouldnt have.

**Eliav** · 11 October 2010, 11:11 Monday

Originally posted by sikoniko

While I enjoyed your opinion/review, I don't think we can take anything away conclusively other than the Krell's may have performed better in that room with that combination of equipment. It's funny how variable the sound can be with different components.

I agree in general, yet the analytical sound was there with both amplifiers, which may imply that the cause MAY have been one of the other components or a combination of ones. Since I am now leaning more toward a source upgrade, I was obviously more concerned about the DAC.

**RebelMan** · 11 October 2010, 23:29 Monday

Nice write-up Eliav. I wouldn't be so quick to write off the CA-M600s just yet. If you have the time, interest or inclination, go back a few more times to evaluate the equipment some more (any build up more familiarity with things). You may find your first impressions more or less disjointed from additional takes. Either way if you are going to consider a new source, it may be worth your while if you can wait and see what the CP-800 will have to offer before you make a final determination.

**Eliav** · 12 October 2010, 00:13 Tuesday

Thanks for the advice RebelMan
I certainly have not written off the cam 600, it is high on my list. I honestly have been oblivious of how much more detail and clarity could be injected into sound reproduction with the chord DAC. I was thinking that the dual DAC's within the CDP 202 are it, and never thought of bypassing them. As I understand things, an external DAC ( such as the Chord),is an addition the cdp202 ( which will practically serve as a transport), whereas the cp800 is hopefully an upgrade of the cp700.
Anyone else using external DAC with their Classe cd players ?
Thanks

Upgrading to Delta 600 amplifiers?

Upgrading to Delta 600 amplifiers?

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