Cedia 2010

[RebelMan]

There's going to be a few public announcements made later today. Hopefully, I'll be able to follow up with some information that will offer us a closer look to what is published by the media outlets. Stay tuned.

UPDATE
As promised and enclosed below is the first bit of (official) information to come out of Classe' regarding a new pre-amplifier (CP-800) an hardware update to the existing processor/controller (SSP-800/CT-SSP) and some clarification on the new power amplifier (CA-M600).

There will be more to come but for now enjoy the read that we have been graciously given.

Later I may streamline this thread by converting the attachments into links to make the information a bit more manageable unless there are objections to that. Just let me know if you have a preference.

[RebelMan]

New Cp-800 Pre-amplifier

Here's a first look at the new CP-800.

[RebelMan]

New Harware Update for the SSP-800/CT-SSP

Another refreshed look at the SSP-800/CT-SSP.

[RebelMan]

Additional Information for the New CA-M600

Some additional information (per Classe' - some literal and some paraphrased) regarding the new Delta Series amplifiers to hopefully clear up some confusion and/or misunderstanding.

About the LED's...

"There are no channel LEDs because you can no longer switch between balanced and single-ended, so they no longer really serve the purpose of showing the mode of operation. There is still a standby LED, which changes color, but is always on (variable intensity) to satisfy safety certification standards."

About the Cooling System...

"The fan is indeed very quiet. I can’t hear it in my room, but it would be well below the noise generated by HVAC or set top boxes in AV systems. There’s no chance you would hear it with any music playing, even at very low levels. In fact one of the special qualities of the new amplifier design is its super-low noise floor, so the fan has to be quiet to make that work. When we did our testing for protection circuit thresholds we repeatedly drove the amp to shut down at high volumes (playing Pink Floyd The Wall) that would drive people from the room. Over the entire process the fan never exceeded 30% duty cycle. If run at full speed at 40 degrees C, its MTBF is 70,000 hours (or 8 years if run 24/7). There is no condition where we ever run it that hard, so for most people the life of the fan will meet or exceed the life of caps or other components in the amplifier. Furthermore, the fact that it maintains an essentially constant temperature improves the life of all components in the amplifier, so on balance, it is a way to reduce component part failures and minimize their change in performance over time."

About the Specifications (some of)...

PDF attached describing the CA-M600. The general descriptions would be the same for the other amplifiers, only their specifications would change.

[garak]

Thanks for the update. The CP-800 at under $6,000 sounds pretty interesting. Any word if the HDMI 1.4 update to the SSP-800 will be a DIY upgrade like the dual DSP upgrade?

[RebelMan]

The price point will come in under $6K. In terms of pricing and performance the CP-800 will do for 2CH what the SSP-800 has already done for MCH, so as you say interesting indeed. Based on some information not contained in the press announcement, I am finding the CP-800 shaping up to become, in unexpected ways, a valuable addition to an SSP-800 based system.

It is my understanding the new HDMI board will be field upgradable for those capable and comfortable doing the job. I will know for certain along with some other details later.

EDIT: Officially priced at $5000.

[aarsoe]

So now the big question is, for those of us that have been waiting for this announcement, will the SSP-800 or the CP-800 sound better for music playback?

I do however love the fact that finally we have a pre-amp with sub output and EQ. However integration with an external SSP then gets difficult - I mean is there also a sub woofer pass though channel/s?

The 16/9 display is however odd, not sure that will match a stack of Delta gear - or maybe it will? Or maybe we will get new sources with 16/9 displays in them all....

And they did miss out on one important thing. Where is the WiFi that will allow for an Ipad/Ipod control of the unit? Maybe not that interesting for a preamp, but all later sources should have it!

[style]

Yes,

the new cp800 is coming!!! My friend From ClasseAudio Switzerland told me the truth ... :T

the cp700 is too much similar at the SSP800!!!!

Great job!

Style

[style]

@aarsoe,
the CP700 will be replaced from the CP800 becouse the sound "delivered" from the SSP800 vs. the CP700 are too much similar or much people say that the SSP800 is better....
Classe will have a really High End preampli in stereo: a brand that is not born to make "sourrond system" but is around the world a very Brand for stereo system....
-> Classe come out from the CP800 at reponse from the demand from a lot of purist audiophile that will have this in our room...

style

[btf1980]

Picture of the CP-800 in the wild at CEDIA.

[JoseS]

Love that new FP interface... wonder if that's possible with the SSP800.

[aarsoe]

Hmm, looks like the new display is Of a much higher resulution than the old one. So I dont expect that look to be passed on to the "old" units...

[sikoniko]

I'm sort of surprised there is no HDMI for 2 ch hi-rez audio...

[btf1980]

I'm sort of surprised there is no HDMI for 2 ch hi-rez audio...

You bring up a good point. I was at my dealer earlier this week & we were discussing how 2 channel audio dismisses HDMI connections. Most people equate it with video. HDMI is perfect for DSD direct. I think the only 2 channel piece with any HDMI connection at all is the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC & Transport.

[btf1980]

Video of Dave Nauber at CEDIA with the new components. Loved the way they spelled Classe. :roll:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh8TSmYPqaY

[RebelMan]

The short answer to the HDMI input, with respect to the CP-800, would be redundancy. The USB connector alone would suffice to serve high resolution content. Challenge here would be getting ready access to the content using less conventional means, that is, USB devices that actually support high resolution content.

[RebelMan]

So now the big question is, for those of us that have been waiting for this announcement, will the SSP-800 or the CP-800 sound better for music playback?

Jury's still out but the question has already been posed to Classe' for their take on any similarities/differences they have observed thus far.

I do however love the fact that finally we have a pre-amp with sub output and EQ. However integration with an external SSP then gets difficult - I mean is there also a sub woofer pass though channel/s?

This, on second thought, could be a potential dilemma. I have included it in my list of inquires for Classe'.

The 16/9 display is however odd, not sure that will match a stack of Delta gear - or maybe it will? Or maybe we will get new sources with 16/9 displays in them all....

It's been a desired feature for some time now. I think you would adjust to the new look in no time. I only wish they did this sooner with the SSP-800.

And they did miss out on one important thing. Where is the WiFi that will allow for an Ipad/Ipod control of the unit? Maybe not that interesting for a preamp, but all later sources should have it!

Well it does support a hard line (which again the SSP-800 does not) so adapting it to a WiFi network wouldn't be that difficult or unsightly if one chose to. That said, Classe' does have plans to make use of the new connection.

[aarsoe]

Thank you for trying to answer some of the questions - however the "hard line" eludes me. What do you mean by that?

Finally, on the lack of WiFi issue. Even if Classe do not want to support an iphone app, the fact that they still prefer infrared to say a bluetooth connection strike me as being a bit odd. Even though most of you would keep the delta stack out in the open the cooling tunnel on the amplifiers does give people an opportunity to place the units in a cabinet or hidden somewhere else out of site. So a non-directional remote solution would, at least to me, have been the prefered solution...

[style]

Halo Rebelman,

I have this info from the coming from the"big Brother" from the cp700 from my contact with Classe Switzerland. (not official info)
Now with the Cp800 Classe come on the market with a very HighEnd preampli
(from what I say the Cp500,Ca5100 they go out of production) and a lot of purist stereo fans (maybe more in Europa where the pure stereo have a big piece of the market) are / will be after test satisfait....and they go buy ths great product.
I have a Cp700 if I remember and this new comer will replace your actually preampli?
your idea over the Cp800 is that will be a prempli made for the new tecnoligie like Ipod,Ipad (Apple) - or give really "upgrade" at the "normaly source present in home of the fans from years...(cd player, turntable,..)??

Denon have made in accord with Apple as firts productor a line of HT receiver to can have a system Denon receiver, Itunes, appleTV,... for a very simply use of connection (and use) without the problems present before...

classe with this new Cp800 will go in tthe same direction?

of course your opiion!, and of the others menbers is agree!

thx Style

[gerardhn]

Is this new 800 thing meant as the only stereo pre amp in the classe line?

How must we see its "quality" position: CP 500< CP 800< CP 700???

I cannot believe this is the only 2 ch preamp left, which is better than old 700 for less money and with dac's

[mjb]

Classé UK told me last week the CA-5100 has been out of production for a over year now, so any on the market are either second hand or old stock.

[style]

well, the CP700 is and remain a great preampli.
now you can find a new , or demo cp700 for €. 5000.- (I have receive a offert for the cp700, Demo , wyrranty, phono stage!!,box, alll)

if you will have the last model you must $$$$!!!

gerardhn with a cp700 you can have a great systen! that is sure.

the cp500 + a ca2100 is the same at the cap2100..... of course have a 2 piéce setup "normally" wil be better but is the test before...

style

[RebelMan]

Thank you for trying to answer some of the questions - however the "hard line" eludes me. What do you mean by that?

Lots of ways to describe the same thing but it means Wired Ethernet. WiFi is Wireless Ethernet.

Finally, on the lack of WiFi issue. Even if Classe do not want to support an iphone app, the fact that they still prefer infrared to say a bluetooth connection strike me as being a bit odd. Even though most of you would keep the delta stack out in the open the cooling tunnel on the amplifiers does give people an opportunity to place the units in a cabinet or hidden somewhere else out of site. So a non-directional remote solution would, at least to me, have been the prefered solution...

A lot of people would object to a BT (non-directional) remote, countless PS3 users among them.

[RebelMan]

style and gerardhn, It seems you are both asking similar questions. The answer is the CP-800 will supplant the previous generation pre-amplifiers much in the same way that the SSP-800 did the previous processors/controllers. Once the old line has been phased out only one preamplifier and one processor will remain.

The quality of the CP-800 is designed to exceed the performance of the CP-700 yet be positioned at a more cost effect price point. Like the SSP-800 before it, which was originally expected to be priced at $10-$12K but instead came in at substantially lower cost of $8K, the CP-800 expected to be around $6K will be $5K instead. When you consider that after two years the price of the SSP-800 is still below original estimates AND that it comes with a more advanced video board to boot, cleary indicates that Classe' has positioned itself to become the high performance value leader, and it's working.

[RebelMan]

well, the CP700 is and remain a great preampli.

No question about it but the SSP-800 has a better pre-amplifer component to it and the CP-800 has been engineered to be better than the SSP-800. It will be interesting, however, to hear how these additional improvements are translated to the listening room. I suspect they will be incremental given that the CP-800 uses the SSP-800 as its basis.

[aarsoe]

RebelMan

Only reason to object over a bluetooth remote would be lack Of compatability for multi-Function remotes, however that issue have been solved long time ago with adapters - even for the PS3. In my mind most users that complaints about their PS3 remote are people who have not purchased Sony's own remote.

No in regards to hard Line then I still dont understand your point. I do not see the CP-800 having any ethernet input - or am I mistaken????

[RebelMan]

Only reason to object over a bluetooth remote would be lack Of compatability for multi-Function remotes, however that issue have been solved long time ago with adapters - even for the PS3. In my mind most users that complaints about their PS3 remote are people who have not purchased Sony's own remote.

Correct, but the objection is, nevertheless, valid.

No in regards to hard Line then I still dont understand your point. I do not see the CP-800 having any ethernet input - or am I mistaken????

It does hence you are mistaken (but in a good way).

[RebelMan]

Some photos of the CP-800 on display at CEDIA 2010. It's looking pretty good from here.

[gerardhn]

Rebelman.

I was so lucky to sell my 500 preamp some weeks ago. So now I have my choice. A sale 700 or new 800.
You expect 800 to be better for 2 ch? 800 doesnot have the outside E-box which is also an advantage. Plus it has some nice options.
I wonder what € price will be.

[JoseS]

Thanks for the great pics RebelMan.

[aarsoe]

Grrrrr - in a tough spot now. Christmas presents for the kids or me...
Definitively want one... If not two.

[aarsoe]

Sorry about all my comments, but need to praise Classe for bringing back AES/XLR digital input and maybe even more important a headphone jack. I know external boxes can sound better, but for casual listening this is ideal...

[style]

Great pictures Rebelman. thx.

I see a lot of optical Input...and 3 caox....well will bethe same but I prefer a great coax./interconnect cabel in place fron a optical! but is my personal taste.

..I suspect they will be incremental given that the CP-800 uses the SSP-800 as its basis.

that is a very good challenge.. a fight with 2 "goliath" and not david vs. goliath...

at first I thing the Classe have made the new pre that is "much digital" or open for the new sources that come day by day on the market! always more computer parts .... increasingly hard drive to store our music and not more the classic CD player & turntable....
time change....ok, right but personally love having the CD with the cover in hand, change the CD, "work" with my system ... Push & hear this does not attract me much.

The sound of the new cp800 is sure a great evolution from the SSP800.
The SSP is a stereo pre unrivaled (if you consider that is a device for HT)
The electronics CP800 is the basis of the SSP so I think it will sound great.
clearly must have a well-balanced but an "old" CA2200, CAM400 will be a perfect patner for a system with a very good sound and any developments.

style

[gerardhn]

i wonder what the ethernet connection is for...... what you precisly can do with it....
do we have a user manual??

[aarsoe]

Does anybody know if we will get a phono option for the CP-800?

[RebelMan]

I was so lucky to sell my 500 preamp some weeks ago. So now I have my choice. A sale 700 or new 800.
You expect 800 to be better for 2 ch?

I do, only because the SSP-800 does 2CH better than the CP-700 and the CP-800 will, at the very least, equal it. This is not to say the CP-700 is not without its strengths, only that the SSP-800 has specific strengths that that give it the edge.

[RebelMan]

i wonder what the ethernet connection is for...... what you precisly can do with it....
do we have a user manual??

I am being kept in the dark on this but even if I knew it would be unlikely that I could discuss. All I will say, that I think is allowable at this time, is to think... UPnP and DLNA. :W

[RebelMan]

Does anybody know if we will get a phono option for the CP-800?

Unlikely any built in support. The CP-700 has this feature but I don't think it did that well in the marketplace as there were and still are cheaper alternatives. Those alternatives would still work with the new CP-800 for those that need them.

[gerardhn]

Rebelman.

you make me horney if its 2 ch is as good as 700.
about the ethernet.
In my ideal world, or if I would have been classe designer, i could use the ethernet connection to send wav or mp3 flac from PC or NAS to the 800 and than it plays?????

[rickc]

Rebelman: Here we go again stating that the SSP800 is better then the CP 700 for two channel music. THAT IS NOT THE CASE!
We will have to wait and see / hear if the CP 800 is better then the CP 700. The issue that I see is in the bass mgt feature in the new CP800. That is nice if you aren’t using the pass thru / SSP mode with your SSP 600/800? It is also cheaper then a new CP700. But you will be able to buy a used CP 700 for $3 to $4K. All of the current CP 700 owners can just add a Wadia IPOD docking station for $300 and get the ability to use their IPOD with their system. They better have the phono option as well in this new CP800 or this is a problem. I know that you can add a seperate unit, but most high end preamps have this option to include a phonostage. Does this new box have a seperate power supply?

I do like the new display!!!
They should of placed the USB port on the rear or side. It looks cheap in the front of a system like that!! My 2 cents aka like a Denon reciever

[style]

I dont think that the cp700 can have the same sound of the cp800!!!
sorry but the new cp800 will be much better.
the ssp800 and the cp700 are very, very similar but the cp800 is a step up.

in europa a "new" cp700, not Demo, is at chf. 12500.- and with the money change if you can have so one untis for $. 3-4000.- wow i love usa!!!!

a new cp800 come sure with a price very similar at the cp700 and is a lot of money man!
(especiallly vs. the 4000.-usa Dollar!! - or the new cp800 with the 6000 $$$)

if you search a 2 channel pre the cp700 (or the cp800) is the way, and a wadia ipod docking dont is enough the have a 800 from a cp700.

style

[RebelMan]

Rebelman: Here we go again stating that the SSP800 is better then the CP 700 for two channel music. THAT IS NOT THE CASE!

On the contrary, the SSP-800 is better because it does more better (a.k.a. does more accurately, does more correctly) than the CP-700 does and that is NOT DISPUTABLE. Now having said that I have yet to publish my review with the reasons why I state this. But for now I ask that you re-read more closely the last statement in the previous remark to get the hint. I repeat it here for your convenience...

"This is not to say the CP-700 is not without its strengths, only that the SSP-800 has specific strengths that give it the edge."

We will have to wait and see / hear if the CP 800 is better then the CP 700.

There is no question the CP-800 will be better, again it's based in principle off of the SSP-800 platform and architecture. The question is... Will it improve on the strengths of the CP-700? THAT is what we will have to wait and hear.

Wadia IPOD docking station for $300 and get the ability to use their IPOD with their system. They better have the phono option as well in this new CP800 or this is a problem. I know that you can add a seperate unit, but most high end preamps have this option to include a phonostage. Does this new box have a seperate power supply?

I don't follow this logic. Have built-in support for a phono-stage but not for UPnP/DLNA devices?

End user support for built-in phono-stage has not materialized in any meaningful way. There has been very little interest and when there is interest it has been predominately through third parties. There are exceptions though but they are few and far. The definition of a "high-end pre-amp" is changing and we are witnessing that with the advent of the CP-800. Like it or not we are living in a digital world and that's not gonna change. Analog is a survivor and it has its place but it will never again be what it once was. Respect it for what it is not what it should be.

The power supply is built into the main chassis.

I do like the new display!!!
They should of placed the USB port on the rear or side. It looks cheap in the front of a system like that!! My 2 cents aka like a Denon reciever

Agreed. Though, I am hoping they have an elegant solution to plug the hole for those that do not intend to use it. Same for the headphone jack but I'll be more forgiving if they don't.

[RebelMan]

about the ethernet.
In my ideal world, or if I would have been classe designer, i could use the ethernet connection to send wav or mp3 flac from PC or NAS to the 800 and than it plays?????

We shall see. :W

[rickc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickc
Rebelman: Here we go again stating that the SSP800 is better then the CP 700 for two channel music. THAT IS NOT THE CASE!

On the contrary, the SSP-800 is better because it does more better (a.k.a. does more accurately, does more correctly) than the CP-700 does and that is NOT DISPUTABLE. Now having said that I have yet to publish my review with the reasons why I state this. But for now I ask that you re-read more closely the last statement in the previous remark to get the hint. I repeat it here for your convenience...

"This is not to say the CP-700 is not without its strengths, only that the SSP-800 has specific strengths that that give it the edge."

My Response:
An SSP is not the same as a dedicated two channel preamp. We all ready discussed that in past responses. The all in one box like the SSP800 is a great multichannel system. That is why I bought an SSP 600 a few years back. We are discussing apples and oranges. Look at any high end company that wants the best in two channel sound. They have a dedicated preamp - not an all in one box component like the SSP 600/800. You can feel good that your SSP800 is a nice all in one box, but not the same as a dedicated preamp. I have listened to both, I have discussed with my dealer and I have also discussed with the folks from Classe. I guess we are all wrong and Rebelman is right? The bottom line is that the Classe gear is outstanding that’s why my whole system is Classe. We are all entitled to our opinions right? We will have to see what the CP 800 sounds like and if it is better I will buy it!


Quote:
We will have to wait and see / hear if the CP 800 is better then the CP 700.

There is no question the CP-800 will be better, again it's based in principle off of the SSP-800 platform and architecture. The question is... Will it improve on the strengths of the CP-700? THAT is what we will have to wait and hear.


Quote:
Wadia IPOD docking station for $300 and get the ability to use their IPOD with their system. They better have the phono option as well in this new CP800 or this is a problem. I know that you can add a seperate unit, but most high end preamps have this option to include a phonostage. Does this new box have a seperate power supply?

I don't follow this logic. Have built-in support for a phono-stage but not for UPnP/DLNA devices?

End user support for built-in phono-stage has not materialized in any meaningful way. There has been very little interest and when there is interest it has been predominately through third parties. There are exceptions though but they are few and far. The definition of a "high-end pre-amp" is changing and we are witnessing that with the advent of the CP-800. Like it or not we are living in a digital world and that's not gonna change. Analog is a survivor and it has its place but it will never again be what it once was. Respect it for what it is not what it should be.

The power supply is built into the main chassis.
Response:
Take a look at any audio publication and read why analog is superior to digital. That is why I asked the question about a phonostage. Turntables are the best source that you can have for two channel sound. It sounds like you are a multi-channel TV/video guy and that is fine. I like to watch movies as well. For the best in two channel music you need a dedicated preamp and a TT.


Quote:
I do like the new display!!!
They should of placed the USB port on the rear or side. It looks cheap in the front of a system like that!! My 2 cents aka like a Denon reciever

Agreed. Though, I am hoping they have an elegant solution to plug the hole for those that do not intend to use it. Same for the headphone jack but I'll be more forgiving if they don't.
__________________

[Kal Rubinson]

Response:
Take a look at any audio publication and read why analog is superior to digital. That is why I asked the question about a phonostage. Turntables are the best source that you can have for two channel sound. It sounds like you are a multi-channel TV/video guy and that is fine. I like to watch movies as well. For the best in two channel music you need a dedicated preamp and a TT.

Dogma.