new Delta series CA M600 are here, CA M400 R.I.P ?

[Eliav]

Hi
As you remember, I wanted to add two more monoblocks to my setup, when my dealer informed me about the CA M600 that has recently been announced. here it is as a PDF attachmnet ( sent as a PDF by my dealer). The question we both cannot answer, is whether Classe will or will not DISCONTINUE making the CA M400 ? personally I dont see why they should, they have just added two more monoblocks to the existing ones ( the new cam3oo, and the new cam 600).
questions :1. anyone know anything about CAM400's future ?
2. if you were to drive B&W 800d would you go 4x cam400 or 2x cam600?
Thanks
Eliav
BTW, the PDF file is 148k, the system wont allow bigger than 100k, can anyone help reducing the size of this pdf so i can attach it ?

[beden1]

That's a tough call without having heard the new Classe amps. I have heard a pair of 800Ds driven by (2) each CAM-400s and the sound was outstanding. But, they also sounded great with one McIntosh MC1.2KW (1,200 watts) driving each speaker.

I had gone to my dealer who had the 800Ds connected to the McIntosh MC1.2KWs and I was really impressed with how they sounded. It was like I had never heard 800Ds before. Then I asked him to set the 800Ds up with dual CAM-400s driving each speaker, which he did about 4 weeks later. With the dual Classe amps, they sounded really spectacular as well, but since there was so much time in between listening sessions, I can't say if one sounded that much better than the other. I will say this though, that my experiment showed that the 800Ds really perform with power that gives them a lot of headroom.

Unfortunately however, I started adding up the costs of the power to the cost of the speakers, and I decided I just didn't feel comfortable spending that much on a dream system. And, once I heard the 800Ds with that kind of power, I knew I would not be happy with them if I went with any less.

I just went to the McIntosh website and they now also have a MC2KW 2,000 Watt Reference Power Amplifier that I would love to hear the 800Ds on.

I don't know the money comps, but since you seem to want to get the absolute most out of your 800Ds, why not also audition these two McIntosh amps before you pull the trigger?

[Eliav]

Thanks Beden1
Very useful input.
I too, have not heard the CA M600. my dealer ( biased of course) tells me that the CT600 sounded impressive.
My two considerations are : 1. I already have two cam400( one per speaker) I can buy a second pair, which is cheaper than a new pair of 600, thus having a 'cheap" option of 400x4 amplification with the cost of 400x2 only.
2. the other question is really, if money is not an issue here, will a 400x4 amplification ( split the signal from the cp700 into 4 amplifiers) sound BETTER than a 600x2 amplification ? I know that a LOT of sound improvement is a function of watts, yet there are obviously other issues. for example will the 600 design/topology make it better sounding then the current cam400's ?
I assume only my ears can be the judge, yet setting an A/B comparison will be very difficult/unrealistic. so, here I am with friends speculating... until i reach a decision.

[beden1]

Thanks Beden1
Very useful input.
I too, have not heard the CA M600. my dealer ( biased of course) tells me that the CT600 sounded impressive.
My two considerations are : 1. I already have two cam400( one per speaker) I can buy a second pair, which is cheaper than a new pair of 600, thus having a 'cheap" option of 400x4 amplification with the cost of 400x2 only.
2. the other question is really, if money is not an issue here, will a 400x4 amplification ( split the signal from the cp700 into 4 amplifiers) sound BETTER than a 600x2 amplification ? I know that a LOT of sound improvement is a function of watts, yet there are obviously other issues. for example will the 600 design/topology make it better sounding then the current cam400's ?
I assume only my ears can be the judge, yet setting an A/B comparison will be very difficult/unrealistic. so, here I am with friends speculating... until i reach a decision.

The four CAM-400s sounded spectacular driving the 800Ds. As long as you already have two of them, then I would personally just get two more and call it a day.

At some point at these high levels of systems, I think it becomes very very subjective and may take many listening sessions for you to really determine which sounds better overall. The four CAM-400s provided a lot of head room for the 800Ds when I was listening, and I know that I would be very pleased with the sound for the long term.

[gerardhn]

Eliav,

to make comparison pls add investment..

1. you keep old CAM 400 and add two more out off SALE!

2. you trade in/sell two CAM 400 and buy 2 new CAM 600


maybe option 2 is about double investment!!!!!!. Double on big $$$!.

I think we should add that..

[hifiguymi]

The CA-2200, CA-3200, CA-5200 and CA-M400 are all discontinued and there is no replacement for the CA-3200. The 200 watt module that is in those amps has been replaced with the new 300 watt module. The CA-M600 is the closest replacement to the CA-M400 because it's a balanced output stage. The CA-M300 uses one 300 watt module.

Eric

[Eliav]

I guess I'll have to either sell my cam400 and get a new cam600, or get a second pair of used 400's....
Anyone seen the suggested retail price on the cam600 ?
Thanks
Eliav

[aarsoe]

According to Classe the preamp in the SSP-800 is much better than the CP-700. Maybe you would be better off in bying that before any more power amps..
Besides a better preamp you also get the possibility to do manual room correction, which could be worth a lot more in the end..
Also there is a rumor that a new ssp will be out shortly that should be beat everything out there. However not to sure about that being true since we have not heard anything on it..
Anyway, hope this gives you food for thought.

[ray5]

According to Classe the preamp in the SSP-800 is much better than the CP-700. Maybe you would be better off in bying that before any more power amps..
Besides a better preamp you also get the possibility to do manual room correction, which could be worth a lot more in the end..
Also there is a rumor that a new ssp will be out shortly that should be beat everything out there. However not to sure about that being true since we have not heard anything on it..
Anyway, hope this gives you food for thought.

Where did you hear about the new SSP? Any more details?

[hifiguymi]

There isn't a new SSP coming. Classe has a new stereo preamp being shown at CEDIA to replace the CP-700. It will have a DSP in it for digital to analog conversion with USB and S/PDIF inputs as well as the analog stage from the SSP-800. It will be a two channel SSP-800 and it should be around $6000.00 US or so.

Eric

[ray5]

There isn't a new SSP coming. Classe has a new stereo preamp being shown at CEDIA to replace the CP-700. It will have a DSP in it for digital to analog conversion with USB and S/PDIF inputs as well as the analog stage from the SSP-800. It will be a two channel SSP-800 and it should be around $6000.00 US or so.

Eric

Correct.
This is what I heard from Classe:
"Although we are not developing a new SSP at this time, we are working an HD M I 1.4 upgrade that will enable 3D functionality on our current SSPs to wards the end of the year. This upgrade will be available to existing SSP owners but regrettably it is still to o early to speculate how much we will charge for it."
And BTW the M600 will be $7000 a piece!!!
Ray

[sikoniko]

There isn't a new SSP coming. Classe has a new stereo preamp being shown at CEDIA to replace the CP-700. It will have a DSP in it for digital to analog conversion with USB and S/PDIF inputs as well as the analog stage from the SSP-800. It will be a two channel SSP-800 and it should be around $6000.00 US or so.

Eric

from my understanding, your description is not accurate. :W

It sucks that CEDIA is next week. I have been working in Atlanta the last three weeks... it would fall on the week I am in Orlando... :x :cry:

[hifiguymi]

That is the info as I remember it from Tom when I talked to him about three weeks ago. What is different from what you understand?

Eric

[sikoniko]

That is the info as I remember it from Tom when I talked to him about three weeks ago. What is different from what you understand?

Eric

let me rephrase. the gist of what you are saying probably is correct. My understanding was that the original plan was to bring over tech from the ssp-800 like you mentioned; however, they decided to go a different route. I have not followed too closely on it to be honest - as it is not something that has interested me. I don't know what information is publicly available about it and what information might have been shared with me in confidence so I will wait to comment until Classe makes an official announcement next week. Then I will feel more comfortable sharing.

Oddly enough, I've started playing guitar again more and have ben acquiring new guitars more than I have been listening to the system. I wish I could find a cheaper hobby...

[gerardhn]

I wonder how can Classe amps still can compete with much better reviews (all over the world) getting Pass Labs company....

Must be B&W synergy from dealership.

[KahunaCanuck]

Do you buy all of your equipment purely from reviews? 8O
...and I am sure you will see some Classe reviews soon as well.

[sikoniko]

I wonder how can Classe amps still can compete with much better reviews (all over the world) getting Pass Labs company....

Must be B&W synergy from dealership.

Pass Labs make great amps! they are more expensive though, no?

[Skyblue]

They are certainly in a place pricewise where one should also consider lamm, or ayre or krell or whomever your favourite too expensive amplifier manufacturer is

[realalan]

Yesterday, listened to the new Classe CA2300 (dealer also had the new 300W monoblock which I didn't listen to). Differences/comparisions with CA2200:

1. As the amp was new sounded different to the CA2200 (less analogue and rich as am used to on the CA2200), but this may be due to the fact that the amp was not broken in.
2. As widely reported, new fascia design on front with air vents to draw air in, fan at back to exhale the hot air. IMO more electrical parts equals more failures....I can understand Classe minimizing their product lines and amalgamating the CT series with the CA.
3. Heatsinks on side removed, so that the aluminium front now wraps all away around amp, like the CP, SSP, CDP etc. Again, subjective as to whats preferred, but I liked the industrial honesty and functionality of the heatsinks which defines a power amplifier.

And rumour of new CP to replace CP700 seems true, as you cannot switch from balanced to line on the front (no LEDs) and the new CP enable that control to happen.
No word on pricing though.

[Antonkk]

One thing I don't like about the new line is that for the same amount of money which CA-M400 costed now you can buy the less powerfull 300 Watt monos.... :cry:

[RebelMan]

Eliav the best advice would be to stick with the dual CA-M400 configuration that you have now, they are more than sufficient drivers for your system. Unless you are listening in a highly damped environment (but that would be your first problem if you were) or you enjoy massive amount of sound pressures (not wise if your value your hearing), the sound quality will be identical either way. You'll get far more mileage from upgrading your head unit than you will from adding or replacing amps. BTW, the CA-M400's will be phased out in favor of the new series.

[Eliav]

RebelMan
Good to hear from you my old ( shall I say lost :W ) Pal.
I will be traveling to my dealer's shop, to audition the new 600's driving the 800d's. I need to be convinced there is or isn't a significant improvement with imaging, punch etc. as Classe claims. if it is not audible, I will not upgrade my current system. I think my current setup is well balanced and my room acoustics is near optimal, yet, I feel that I could get more of the 800d,may be it is just my urge for perfection, or i may be just looking for new toys and new excitement ( will an upgrade of my cp700 make the change ? )
I hope I can share with this forum my experience with the cam600 audition soon.
Thank you all for you participation and support !
Eliav

[Skyblue]

Please write your impressions!

[Eliav]

sure will

[RebelMan]

Hopefully your dealer will spend the time acclimating you to their environment and to compare the two series of amplifiers side by side in a controlled manner. I've heard the CT series but it was in an unfamiliar setting not conducive for critical listening and on a system somewhat removed from my own. Was I impressed? Taken as a whole absolutely and yes the CP-700 was part of the equation. Again your pre-amplifier is without question the place to start if you want to make a noticeable change. I am certain I would not have noticed any difference in performance between the CT-M600 and the CA-M400 in this setting, all else being equal. I assure you your CA-M400 are typically all that you are going to need for your 800D. So Enjoy.

Funny thing and FWIW, I was just telling a friend the other day that if I were going to change any part of my system the very last thing I would consider would be the SSP-800 followed by the CA-5100/CA-M400. Speakers be damned!