DSD vs PCM on SSP800

[Maverick71]

Having recently purchased an Oppo BD83NE, I can now enjoy a few hybrid SACD's that I own.
The Oppo has the ability to output DSD or convert it to PCM through the HDMI input but unfortunately the SSP800 does not process DSD streams.

I came across a few bits of information that referred that the conversion from DSD to PCM had a bad effect on the music signal making the sound nearer to CD redbook quality thus eliminating (at least in part) the advantadge of the DSD quality.

Having this in mind, do you think that it would be better to connect the SSP800 to the Oppo BD83 through the 7.1 analog outputs for SACD listening instead of using the DSD->PCM conversion of the Oppo and the SSP800 DAC's? From what I gather the BD83 converts the DSD directly to analog.

I haven't done this experience yet but there might be some SSP800 owners that did this comparision...

Mav

[Kal Rubinson]

Having recently purchased an Oppo BD83NE, I can now enjoy a few hybrid SACD's that I own.

I assume you can now enjoy your non-hybrid SACDs even more. :roll:

I came across a few bits of information that referred that the conversion from DSD to PCM had a bad effect on the music signal making the sound nearer to CD redbook quality thus eliminating (at least in part) the advantadge of the DSD quality.

Can you offer any links or references to this? Do you realize that in order to do any DSP or bass management or EQ, all DSD must be converted to PCM anyway?

Having this in mind, do you think that it would be better to connect the SSP800 to the Oppo BD83 through the 7.1 analog outputs for SACD listening instead of using the DSD->PCM conversion of the Oppo and the SSP800 DAC's?

No.

I haven't done this experience yet but there might be some SSP800 owners that did this comparision...

I have, using the 83SE and the CT-SSP, as well as with other combinations.

[Srrndhound]

I came across a few bits of information that referred that the conversion from DSD to PCM had a bad effect on the music signal making the sound nearer to CD redbook quality thus eliminating (at least in part) the advantadge of the DSD quality.

If one is of the mindset that no form of LPCM can achieve quality equivalent to SACD, then we have to stop there. If, OTOH, one feels that the limitations of LPCM that are overcome by SACD can also be overcome by avoiding 16-bits and 44.1 kHz sample rate, then formats such as 96/24 LPCM clearly qualify as contenders. Oppo's 88.2/24 is virtually equivalent to that.

One may then say well, converting from DSD to LPCM is an additional process, so it's not really the same as a direct A-D to 96/24. But it is--a modern A-D chip uses oversampling then a decimation filter. SACD is the 1-bit oversampled part, and the DSD-PCM converter is the decimation filter part.

If one cares to read more, here's an interesting post at Gearslutz.

[Maverick71]

Thanks for your posts.

I've always felt that MPCM converted from DSD would be what most people hear anyway but now there seems to be a bunch of players that output DSD and pre/pros or receiver's that accept it. I did not know about the Bass management limitation which is very important, in my opinion.

This is one of the links I was referring to.

http://www.avguide.com/forums/oppo-bdp-83-bluray-disc-player-plays-sacd-dsd-rather-pcm-dsd-vs-pcm-question

Namely this passage:

The advantage of maintaining a DSD bitstream to the DACs, and converting DSD to analog, is that the signal is never subjected to the low-pass reconstruction filter required in conversion of PCM to analog. This filter is a significant contributor to what we call "CD sound" (hard timbres, flat soundstage, for examples).

To answer your question directly, conversion of DSD to PCM does degrade sound quality.

The DSD-to-analog converter is extraordinarily simple compared to PCM-to-analog conversion. In fact, it is theoretically possible to convert a DSD bitstream to analog with a single capacitor. That's the beauty of DSD.

I also have a Lyngdorf CD1 player so I'll have a lot of testing to do for music testing ! HDMI vs Coax vs analog output on the Oppo, and Lyngordf Balanced vs Lyngdorf Coax (SSP800 DAC's vs Oppo NE DAC's)

Best regards,

Mav

[Srrndhound]

This is one of the links I was referring to.

http://www.avguide.com/forums/oppo-bdp-83-bluray-disc-player-plays-sacd-dsd-rather-pcm-dsd-vs-pcm-question

Namely this passage:

The advantage of maintaining a DSD bitstream to the DACs, and converting DSD to analog, is that the signal is never subjected to the low-pass reconstruction filter required in conversion of PCM to analog. This filter is a significant contributor to what we call "CD sound" (hard timbres, flat soundstage, for examples).

That's why it is not recommended to convert SACD to 44.1 kHz, as in this post just below the one you cited:

>>The reconstruction filter for transcoding from DSD to 88.2 kHz, if intelligently implemented, need not be nearly as problematic as the reconstruction filter needed for, say, 44.1 kHz Redbook format.<<

In other words, use an Oppo or a PS3, not a Denon, for SACD playback into the SSP.