SSP-800 and Audyssey sound equalizer

[ian1975]

Hi!

Is there anyone using the audyssey with Classé SSP-800? please share your thoughts and inputs.

Thanks

Ian

[Kal Rubinson]

I have not had the time to try that. The two units are sitting in the same rack but only the SSP is in use these days.

[ian1975]

hi Kal,

I read the official Audyssey thread on AVS forum, I'm interested getting the pro kit, what is the easiest way to get one?

Also, I want to calibrate my bluray, HD-DVD and my pioneer elite tv, which discs that you recommend?

BTW, I setup my Fathom F113 with the ARO, I'm quite please, it's better than my REL B2, I hope the Audyssey with make it better in HT and stereo...

Thanks

Ian

[Kal Rubinson]

hi Kal,

I read the official Audyssey thread on AVS forum, I'm interested getting the pro kit, what is the easiest way to get one?

Whatever they say on AVS. I am retail-deprived as I get my stuff from the manufacturer.

Also, I want to calibrate my bluray, HD-DVD and my pioneer elite tv, which discs that you recommend?

I am not a video expert by any means so, again, the recommendations of those more knowledgeable would be better. I used DVE in the pre BRD days and Spears&Munsil for BR. Never had/used any HD-DVD.

BTW, I setup my Fathom F113 with the ARO, I'm quite please, it's better than my REL B2, I hope the Audyssey with make it better in HT and stereo...

It should ARO is nothing special.

[ian1975]

Kal,

The SSP-800 comes with the equalizer, is it better to hire a Classé technician to do the calibration or has it done with the audyssey? Is there anything better than the audyssey?

Thanks

Ian

[Kal Rubinson]

Dunno. I am currently using the SSP without Audyssey. I used XTZ/REW to measure and develop correction filters for each speaker and used the SSP's PEQ to implement them. Very happy with the sound.

Will the Audyssey do better? Don't know until I try.

Will a Classe technician do better? Don't know as a lot would depend on the particular technician and what tools (hardware, software, brainware) that is brought to the task.

[ian1975]

"I used XTZ/REW to measure and develop correction filters for each speaker and used the SSP's PEQ to implement them"

Can you give me more info on how to proceed with that method? Is it cheaper that way?

Thanks

Ian

[Kal Rubinson]

Either of those packages will measure the speaker/room response in amplitude and time. They both will also recommend specific filters, usually below about 300Hz, above which time issues are less critical. You can implement those filters using the PEQ in the SSP.

XTZ is a complete kit (http://www.xtz.se/uk/products/mearur.../room-analyzer) but is less flexible than REW. It is easier to learn.

REW is a powerful software package (http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/) but you need to add a mic/preamp and use your laptop.

Neither is as easy as Audyssey but you will have more options assuming that you do not need more than 5 filters per channel as that is the SSP's limit.

[ian1975]

Hi Kal,

Do you need the Audyssey calibration kit for the sound equalizer? Can you just use the calibration kit without the balanced Audyssey sound equalizer which MRSP is 5k?

Thanks

Ian

[Kal Rubinson]

Do you need the Audyssey calibration kit for the sound equalizer?

Yes, you need the AudysseyPro kit to set up the SEQ.

Can you just use the calibration kit without the balanced Audyssey sound equalizer which MRSP is 5k?

You cannot use the AudysseyPro kit without an SEQ, balanced or single-ended. The kit consists only of software, mic, stand and cables.

[Audio_ElF]

Isn't a big issue / problem with something like the Audyssey Pro that you have your SSP800 doing DSP and converting to analogue, then the Audyssey needs to convert to digital again for it's own DSP. That would immediately give using the SSP800 internal eq a big advantage.

[Kal Rubinson]

Isn't a big issue / problem with something like the Audyssey Pro that you have your SSP800 doing DSP and converting to analogue, then the Audyssey needs to convert to digital again for it's own DSP. That would immediately give using the SSP800 internal eq a big advantage.

On paper, yes. In practice, that remains to be seen (heard).

[Srrndhound]

Isn't a big issue / problem with something like the Audyssey Pro that you have your SSP800 doing DSP and converting to analogue, then the Audyssey needs to convert to digital again for it's own DSP. That would immediately give using the SSP800 internal eq a big advantage.

It's not only that there are added A/D and D/As, but that they are no longer in the optimal place in the signal path, since they follow the master volume control. That's not the ideal situation, since the levels through them, at moderate listening levels, will be 20-30 dB lower than those inside the SSP.

[ian1975]

Hi Kal,

I talked to Classé and they don't believe in the Audyssey that's why they didn't integrate it in the SSP-800, they think that is too simplistic solution for a far more complexe room acoustic situation. They suggest to consult an acoustician instead. Is the XTZ/REW as good as the Audyssey in your opinion? The XTZ/REW cost less than 200$ and the complete Audyssey kit is around 5K...

Thanks

Ian

[Kal Rubinson]

Hi Kal,

I talked to Classé and they don't believe in the Audyssey that's why they didn't integrate it in the SSP-800, they think that is too simplistic solution for a far more complexe room acoustic situation. They suggest to consult an acoustician instead.

That is old news and debatable. It is certainly not "too simplistic" compared to nothing. IMO, room correction is essential (now that we have it) and I really wonder how many Classe customers hire an acoustics technician for this.

Is the XTZ/REW as good as the Audyssey in your opinion? The XTZ/REW cost less than 200$ and the complete Audyssey kit is around 5K...

Of course not. OTOH, the differential factor is how much correction is needed in a given situation. The XTZ/REW route might be sufficient and, as I implied above, is better than nothing in any case.

[Oddiophile]

Ian,

It seems to me that this is a case where the simplest approach is both the cheapest and the best. I would hire someone to calibrate the PEQ in your SSP-800. I have done precisely that in my setup and I am very pleased.

This way you will avoid all the problems mentioned by Roger (SrrndHound) and avoid the extra system clutter that another component will introduce not to mention saving on the considerable extra cost. You will be using your SSP-800 the optimum manner in which it is designed to be used.

Hope this helps.

Jim

[sikoniko]

Of course not. OTOH, the differential factor is how much correction is needed in a given situation. The XTZ/REW route might be sufficient and, as I implied above, is better than nothing in any case.

OTOH, since Audyssey is hands off, it is possible that it will over-correct and cause just as much harm as it does good. If the pendulum swings too far the other way, are you not potentially in an equal distance from correct, thus no better off from no correction at all? :W

I did notice in your article you praised the sound of the SSP-800 (CT-SSP) without any EQ at all compared to other products you have sampled in the room. I don't recall if you qualified that by saying whether that comparison was equal or better than the other products post-eq, but none-the-less, your statement is printed and too late to retract. :T

anyways, you know I enjoy harassing you Kal. No harm intended.

In regards to the OP... sound is a personal preference that no two people will agree on 100%. Classe takes a minimalist approach with the product. not everyone will subscribe to that... and lets face it, some rooms require more treatment than others. feedback from this board will ultimately end up being "Your mileage may very". (YMMV). Kinda like when you call a doc and say "my elbow hurts". he/ she will always ask you to come in, instead of attempting to diagnose over the phone (unless that person forsakes liability!).

It has also been stated by "experts" that some people don't like a "correct" room. just something to keep in mind. no, I don't have citations... google it just like I did...

[Kal Rubinson]

OTOH, since Audyssey is hands off, it is possible that it will over-correct and cause just as much harm as it does good. If the pendulum swings too far the other way, are you not potentially in an equal distance from correct, thus no better off from no correction at all? :W

The only time that has happened in my experience was due to (my) operator error and the solution was to run it again.

I did notice in your article you praised the sound of the SSP-800 (CT-SSP) without any EQ at all compared to other products you have sampled in the room. I don't recall if you qualified that by saying whether that comparison was equal or better than the other products post-eq, but none-the-less, your statement is printed and too late to retract. :T

No retraction intended. I will be inserting the Audyssey SEQ some time soon to see what that does with it.

In regards to the OP... sound is a personal preference that no two people will agree on 100%. Classe takes a minimalist approach with the product. not everyone will subscribe to that... and lets face it, some rooms require more treatment than others.

Yes but almost all need some.

It has also been stated by "experts" that some people don't like a "correct" room. just something to keep in mind. no, I don't have citations... google it just like I did...

Sure, there's no accounting for taste. :roll:

[sikoniko]

No retraction intended. I will be inserting the Audyssey SEQ some time soon to see what that does with it.

OOC, do you intend on doing multiple reviews of the SSP under different circumstances in stereophile or is the one article the jist of your "review" and we are kinda privy to blurbs here and there of your experiments?

I'm definately interested in reading about your findings! :T You don't typically write multiple reviews or editorials for the same product though do you (not including using any particular product as a reference point for comparison sake)?

[Kal Rubinson]

Some topics seem to rise to the top repeatedly. One example is/was the issue of PCM output from the Sony XA5400ES player which evolved over months. It is likely that the Classe will be discussed again in the column as I am still playing with it.

[ian1975]

Hi Kal,

Can you test the SSP-800 and the Audyssey this weekend? I can't wait for your review. A local dealer wants to sell me one but can't decide if it's worthed? balanced vs RCA?
I'm more attracted to the idea of calibrating the SSP-800 internal EQ than introducing another piece to my system. The XTZ/REW is more appealing than a Classé technician if I decide to change the furniture or house in the future.
The elbow thing is easier for me than calibrating the room acoustics...

Ian

[Kal Rubinson]

Can you test the SSP-800 and the Audyssey this weekend? I can't wait for your review.

Possible but unlikely. It is a holiday weekend and we are having house guests.

A local dealer wants to sell me one but can't decide if it's worthed? balanced vs RCA?

Why must you decide now?

I'm more attracted to the idea of calibrating the SSP-800 internal EQ than introducing another piece to my system. The XTZ/REW is more appealing than a Classé technician if I decide to change the furniture or house in the future.

So, why not do it? The investment is small and what you get is useful in the future regardless of which way you go eventually.

The elbow thing is easier for me than calibrating the room acoustics...

????

[ian1975]

Why must you decide now?

This week coming. He is cleaning his inventory.

So, why not do it? The investment is small and what you get is useful in the future regardless of which way you go eventually.

I have to order it from Europe or Amazon.uk. Nobody has the XTZ microphone in my area. But we do have the Audyssey.

BTW, the elbow thing is for Sikoniko reply.

Thanks

Ian

[ian1975]

Hi Kal,

Do you know if the Audyssey will affect my stereo listening? I'm sure that the 5.1 will be awesome. Is there any bypass from the EQ for pure stereo on the Audyssey?

Thanks

Ian

[Kal Rubinson]

1. There is a bypass switch on the SEQ and it will bypass signals on all channels with the push of the button.

2. I do not see why you would want to bypass the SEQ for stereo. The equipment and the room acoustics are unchanged except for the number of speakers in operation. The two used for stereo would benefit from the room EQ as much with stereo sources as they would with multichannel.

[ian1975]

Hi Kal,

Certain processor or pre-amp come with the audyssey integrated. Is the stand alone audyssey unit better (quality, calibration options) than the one integrated?

Thanks

Ian

[Kal Rubinson]

Hi Kal,

Certain processor or pre-amp come with the audyssey integrated. Is the stand alone audyssey unit better (quality, calibration options) than the one integrated?

Thanks

Ian

As of today, yes. Of course, using the stand-alone box means that you encumber the additional A/D/A conversions necessary for its analog input and output. Also, if the inbuilt MultEQ XT is Pro-compatible, you can get most of the advantages of the stand-alone with the Pro setup (at some additional cost). IMHO, the sweet spot overall would be a MultEQPro-compatible processor/AVR with the subwoofer eq box.