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Hi,
Do we any have any experience on this topic.?
Who did that with which result?
THX
Gerard
Do we any have any experience on this topic.?
Who did that with which result?
THX
Gerard
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There hasn't been much discussion, only one thread (see link below). The topic of audiophile fuses can be a contentious subject. I have tried different fuses and noted differences. YMMV. I currently use Isoclean fuses. I take a "systems" approach where the fuse upgrade is part of a complete package that includes upgraded wall receptacle, power cords, power connectors and component internal AC wiring.
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=32989&highlight=fuses
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Personaly, I think a dedicated 16 or 20 amp feed via a European "C" type (anti-surge) breaker is sufficient, and certainy brings improvements. As for audiophile fuses, I'm not convinced, but I've also had no first hand experience.- Mike
Main System:
B&W 802D, HTM2D, SCMS
Classé SSP-800, CA-2200, CA-5100Comment
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I agree with Mike.
fuse are only "gadget" the search I don't know what......
a fuse plated gold, rodhium,....dont change the sound.
styleComment
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How do you know a fuse cannot change the sound when you have not tried any ? Visit AudioAsylum, do a search of the tweaks section. You will find concensus that gold and rhodium impart different sonic signatures. I would have doubted this myself had I not tried power connectors with both platings. As I said above this is a contentious topic. I think the OP is looking for comments from persons who have tried audio grade fuses, persons with actual experience, not naysayers.
While on the topic of power tweaks, read the following comments on power cords, another contentious subject area, by Atma-Sphere Music Systems owner and highly respected designer Ralph Karsten:
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There is no question that power cords can make a difference, for the IR loss reasons as mentioned, and also regarding their shielding properties (in those rare cables that have it in systems that need it). But that does not mean all cables make a difference, nor that fuses make a difference.
I think tweakers like to change stuff in sockets--power cords, audio cables, fuses, opamps, simply because they can. In fact, changing opamps can just as likely result in worse performance--regardless of the cost differential. The stuff that's soldered down is probably more responsible for the sound quality, but that's beyond our reach to tinker, so we look elsewhere.
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whit all the respest but sorry not believe everything you read :W :W
leaves a bit 'forums, magazines, ... = Why all these "questions" are only on forums and are not party forward by a company or other places "serious"
when you buy a new amp last casoche can read or ask information from the manufacturer of your new product if it improves the sound change the fuse not know what to say?
Marketing!
changing a end of a cable with te last WBT connect in rodium or ??? give a improvement from 0,005% or I don't know how much... well change all the connection the fuses....waste a 5oo $. and good luck!
really forget all this research of the saint grail with a little tolls!
StyleComment
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I don't have to "believe what I read". I have extensive experience trying the products. As is typical, I can't understand anything else you've written.Originally posted by style
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I agree, not cables will make a difference. Regarding audio grade fuses, it is your right to BELIEVE they don't make a difference. However, IMO you can't say they DON'T make a difference when you have not tried any yourself.Originally posted by Srrndhound
Manufacturers make products to a price point and even some of the most expensive ones will have some compromise. If a person has the knowledge and ability to upgrade certain parts if they believe it will improve the product, what is wrong with that ?I think tweakers like to change stuff in sockets--power cords, audio cables, fuses, opamps, simply because they can.
I agree that is possible to make things worse. However, I believe that when done properly, such changes can also bring improvements, or sound that is more to the liking of the tweaker, if you want to look at it that way.In fact, changing opamps can just as likely result in worse performance--regardless of the cost differential.
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That's exactly why I never said that.Originally posted by Glen B
But I can say that I understand the physics and electrical properties of certain power cords and why they can sound different in certain cases. I cannot understand any such electrical/physical mechanism that would make two functioning fuses of similar rating sound any different in the slightest. If that really happens, it suggests to me they feed a rather sadly designed power supply, IMHO.
Nothing. It's only when they try to infuse others with their belief system that the problems start. OTOH, if someone has some knowledge as to how these audiophile fuses cause a change to the sound of the product, I'm all ears, and would love to read all about it.Manufacturers make products to a price point and even some of the most expensive ones will have some compromise. If a person has the knowledge and ability to upgrade certain parts if they believe it will improve the product, what is wrong with that ?
Even if the tweaker reports "improvements" it's hard to prove anything actually changed other than the thickness of his wallet. Since no one tests fuse sonics under scientific conditions, we all have to realize it's all based on anecdotal reports from the person who most likely funded the exercise and thus has a vested interest in the positive outcome. I am not accusing anyone of being anything other than human, nothing wrong with that. Very hard to set that aside in such matters.I agree that is possible to make things worse. However, I believe that when done properly, such changes can also bring improvements, or sound that is more to the liking of the tweaker, if you want to look at it that way.Last edited by Srrndhound; 01 July 2010, 15:03 Thursday.Comment
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Well actually IMO you did.Originally posted by Srrndhound
"That does not mean ... that fuses make a difference" is the same as saying they don't make a difference."But that does not mean all cables make a difference, nor that fuses make a difference".
No one is infusing anything. You either hear differences or you don't.But I can say that I understand the physics and elecrical properties of certain power cords and why they can sound different in certain cases. I cannot understand any such electrical/physical mechanism that would make two functioning fuses of similar rating sound any different in the slightest. If that really happens, it suggests to me they feed a rather sadly designed power supply,
Nothing. It's only when they try to infuse others with their belief system that the problems start. OTOH, if someone has some knowledge as to how these audiophile fuses cause a change to the sound of the product, I'm all ears, and would love to read all about it.
When I mentioned "improvements" above, I was clearly referring to changing op-amps, not fuses, so I don't understand why you are you talking about testing fuses under scientific conditions ?Even if the tweaker reports "improvements" it's hard to prove anything actually changed other than the thickness of his wallet. Since no one tests fuse sonics under scientific conditions, we all have to realize it's all based on anecdotal reports from the person who most likely funded the exercise and thus has a vested interest in the positive outcome. I am not accusing anyone of being anything other than human, nothing wrong with that. Very hard to set that aside in such matters.
You've mentioned every reason (excuse ?) for non-belief except willingness to simply listen for yourself.
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Hi Glen,Originally posted by Glen B
if you had a improvement only with changing a ffuse , wow : what for fuse do you use?
Ex. purchasing of a new power ampli: the last information in the brochure from the new product in is not change the fuse to have a improvement of the performances!!!
with the cabels is the same: exemple speakers cabels: is you have a WBT spade connection in gold or rodium your speaker dont' going every where!!!
the sound don't change so "amazing" to say and justify the purchase of all connection with products that are just marketing! just to spend more money to the customer.
But fortunately we are not robots. Everyone is free to think and do as they please
StyleComment
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Just going back to my original question.
Did anyanyone replace the fuses in the Classe equipment that are in the signal path.
For CP pre -amp (and CDP) you have to open the black cover plate.
For CA power amp the fuse can be removed at the back (maybe internally more fuses in signal path).
Those fuses are available in different metals and as they say the best types are cryogenic (-200C) treated.Comment
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It's not. Sorry if you read it that way. I was saying that just because power cords can make a difference does not automatically prove that fuses will make a difference.Originally posted by Glen B
Folks are free to say they hear a difference, and I will not try to convince them otherwise. It does not mean a) there was a difference or b) others will hear a difference. The sellers of these fuses are clearly claiming we will hear and see differences. It's the power of positive thinking. One maker wants us to try the fuses in both orientations, then leave it in the one that works best. Very clever way to get one invested in the process!No one is infusing anything. You either hear differences or you don't.
Because I require a shred of objective evidence or even a well reasoned theory that the plating material on a fuse located ahead of the power supply can make the slightest difference in the sonic or visual performance of the product. If the conductivity is different, it ought to be easily measured. If that difference in conductivity alters the power supply performance, it ought to be easily measured. Where are the measurements? Why are we to rely totally on the word of a guy taking a dollar's worth of material and selling it for $30 that it works a miracle?When I mentioned "improvements" above, I was clearly referring to changing op-amps, not fuses, so I don't understand why you are you talking about testing fuses under scientific conditions ?
I do not personnally feel any need to try all sorts of things in my system to see of they work simply because others say it makes a difference. Remember Enid Lumley's clock?You've mentioned every reason (excuse ?) for non-belief except willingness to simply listen for yourself.
In the case at hand, some enterprising folks have taken bog standard fuses, gotten the end caps plated with gold, multiplied the price by a hundred, and all of a sudden we are supposed to look down our noses at our original "cheesy 30-cent" fuses as if they are somehow inferior? It's exactly the same fuse innards, by the way (assuming your product wants the "good sounding" slo-blow type, that is).
The sellers themselves do not even attempt to explain why these pretty fuses would sound any different than the standard plated capped fuses. Even the power cord purveyors tell us a story about the strand designs and inductance and magnetic fields and EMI sheilding and embedded RFI filters and how that affects adjacent circuits or equipment.
Well, maybe this was their feeble attempt. Here, from Isoclean:
>>Fuses carry high electric current thereby causing metal fatigue. This would then adversely alter the conductivity behavior of the fuse element and hence the performance of the equipment.<<
Even if we accept this statement, they say nothing about how their fuse elements (not the end caps, but the fuse elements) are any different and thus less susceptible to fatigue. Probably because they are not—these are standard fuses with the end caps dipped in gold plating. Their silence on this speaks volumes--with transparent, airy, and detailed clarity!Comment
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Dear Srrndhound (and others)
Your expose which is based upon "the fuse boys are so clever to dip a fuse into a goldbath and make a lot of money" BUT " Iám more clever than they because I see they only do that and nothing more so it cannot be true ......" We know that. (holds for better cables, even digital cables! 1=1, 0=0, cannot be true, connectors, feet, audioracks, etc).
This gives endless quasi physical explanations.
Simple thinking: a fuse is a very strange 2 cm long very thin cheap wire a our signal path. we have several of them! So maybe yes, it makes a difference..... lets try this. Price they ask is something else. To be open, to investigate, is the only way to make progress.
We use our forum to share (publish) the results of our experiments.
My question is: are there people around that spend 20 euro (peanuts compared to classe price of whatever component) and replaced the fuse for a quartz sand filled, cryogenic treated, gold plated one and experienced a difference??Comment
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Happily, I have no fuses in the signal path in my system.Originally posted by gerardhn
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Dear Srrndhound ,
How sure are you about your statement? I have no fuses in my signalpath??
Did you open the equipment and check or looked at the schematics???
I think you have .....!
That is the discussion goal of this thread..!Comment
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Yes, I've looked at the designs. The fuses are either in the AC input, or the DC rails. Old David Reich designs. :TOriginally posted by gerardhnComment
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Not me. I use cheapo cables, and standard fuses. I do not buy the voodoo claims. YMMV!Originally posted by gerardhn
Incidentally, a fuse is a safety device. If my amp bursts into flames and the house burns down, the insurance investigators will look for any reason not to pay out. Is a 20 euro fuse worth this? If you buy voodoo fuses, make sure they have all the local required electrical approvals, and are approved by the equipment manufacturer.- Mike
Main System:
B&W 802D, HTM2D, SCMS
Classé SSP-800, CA-2200, CA-5100Comment
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Hi Mike,
well I don't understand ... we are the only two white flies? :W
in a power amplifier brochure I dont'' have never read:
"...to have a improvement of the prefomance of your new amplifier
change the fuse.."
event. I can read: ".. replace the fuse with a fuse whit a same products... for more info contact your dealer...
styleComment
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hehe, a white fly eh?
Nope I don't buy it either, but different folks, different strokes. I'm sure for some a new fuse is the best upgrade they've ever made. But I'll still stick by my original post: there is something to be gained from a dedicated breaker circuit/supply, otherwise whether you believe the claims or not, its up to you.- Mike
Main System:
B&W 802D, HTM2D, SCMS
Classé SSP-800, CA-2200, CA-5100Comment
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I don't go change my fuse like you....
if a fuse break it will be replaced with the same that ccomefrom Classe!
OT:
A great CA2200 new Demo? is available! :twisted: :twisted: devil always present
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StyleComment
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