CA-150 troubles

[Gianluca]

Hi all,

So I took it apone myself to fabricate a RC-1 for ma CA-150, the RC-1 for those that don't know is a interface box that turns the amplifier on when a 12v trigger from pre-pro is used. The RC-1 coverts the 12v trigger to a 12v pulse which is what is need to remotely trun on a CA-150 or older type Classe amps.

I now have a burnt power LED and still no way to turn it on remotely :M . I used 2 bosch type relays to pulse 12v when trigger is on and also when trigger removed. The prototype worked or so I thought :cry: .

What really worries me is that the amp now has a buzz from both channels even with no input. When switched to balanced input it is dead quite. What else could I have killed in there? I will probably have to ship it to Classe service center :cry: .

Thanks for any input and yes I am frustrated at myself :roll: .

Luca

[Glen B]

You fabricated something, but it was nothing close to an RC-1, the operation of which is IC controlled. You probably damaged parts in your amp's soft start circuit and mode switching circuits. The PC boards for those circuits contain a number of ICs.

At some point, talk to me about a proper and safe DIY wireless infrared learning remote trigger for Classé legacy amps. Last year I built one of these IR remote triggers (pictured) at cost price for an Audiogon member who also has a CA-150. It can be taught codes from any IR remote of your choice. Your amp can be powered on/off together with your other components by macro.

This DIY trigger does not send any voltage to the amps but operates a reed relay in parallel with the front panel power switch, in the same way the Classé RC-1 works. Power can be supplied by any 12V 50mA-300mA wall wart.

[Srrndhound]

Hi all,

So I took it apone myself to fabricate a RC-1 for ma CA-150, the RC-1 for those that don't know is a interface box that turns the amplifier on when a 12v trigger from pre-pro is used. The RC-1 coverts the 12v trigger to a 12v pulse which is what is need to remotely trun on a CA-150 or older type Classe amps.

I now have a burnt power LED and still no way to turn it on remotely :M . I used 2 bosch type relays to pulse 12v when trigger is on and also when trigger removed. The prototype worked or so I thought :cry: .

What really worries me is that the amp now has a buzz from both channels even with no input. When switched to balanced input it is dead quite. What else could I have killed in there? I will probably have to ship it to Classe service center :cry: .

Thanks for any input and yes I am frustrated at myself :roll: .

Luca

Sorry to hear of the unintended result. I hate when that happens.

I have a CAV-150 and a CA-201, both of which have the RJ jacks. The CA-201 was able to also accept a separate 1/8" 12v DC input, so I wanted the CAV-150 to do the same so I could tie them together.

The attached Classe Amp Trigger PDF shows the original jack pinout, and says a half-second, 12V pulse into pin 6 will toggle the amp's power. So while you did not build an RC-1, it is not required to duplicate that in detail, as long as the behavior at pin 6 is correct.

I suspect you may have hurt the 12V supply, as that's the most vulnerable terminal on the jack. If you care to post a diagram of what you built, we can psychoanalyze.

I took a different route and modded my CAV-150 as in the JPG. It's been that way almost 10 years, and works fine, either with a constant relay closure (as done for my previous TAG AV32R), or the more typical 12V as from the SSP-800.

Seems you got a cooked LED at minimum, and maybe some other damage, so someone's going to have to lift the bonnet. Not easy to make much headway without a schematic, and all that I've seen is the wee bit in my JPG. Wish I had the whole thing.

[Glen B]

The attached CA201 PDF shows the original jack pinout, and says a half-second, 12V pulse into pin 6 will toggle the amp's power. So while you did not build an RC-1, it is not required to duplicate that in detail, as long as the behavior at pin 6 is correct.

The link you provided does not work. But, your PDF description sounds like my modified version of the original Classé remote interface pinout diagram.

[Gianluca]

I have grossly misunderstood the way it all works. I figured a 12volt pulse on pin 6 of RJ12 would do the trick. When I did that the LED on the amp would blink but not turn on.

Here is the diagram of what I built. Credit to "i am an idiot" from the12volt.com with a name like that I should of figured I removed the resistor and doubled the cap to 2200uf.

EDIT:

I just realized my error. Being a phone technician I know how to read pins on a RJ-12 connector so pin 5-6 on the wire was in reality pin 1-2 on the RJ-12 female connector of the amp. Really dumb of me. But know I think only the LED is fried...anyone know what type it is.

Luca

[Srrndhound]

The link you provided does not work. But, your PDF description sounds like my modified version of the original Classé remote interface pinout diagram (both attached).

Yes, the PDF I posted has the same info as your first PDF. Not sure why it doesn't load for you.

[Srrndhound]

Luca,

The doc I tried to upload (you cannot see it either?? It's just a 28k PDF), states: >>dual-color Stanley # VRPY5645X or equivalent.<< Nothing special, other than it's a dual LED.

[Glen B]

The PDF loads now. Brightness of the VRPY5645X is only 4 mcd.

[Gianluca]

Glen

You are correct about building something should have worded my original post differently. Do you think what I made would have worked assuming I connected it to the proper pins?

I will have no choice to bring it in since it is making a buzzing sound on both channels when powered on.

Thanks for your help.

Luca

[Glen B]

Glen

Do you think what I made would have worked assuming I connected it to the proper pins?

No. I've tried thinking up a relay-only trigger solution in the past, but its not workable. If that was practical, Classé would not have employed electronic control of the triggering. The timing needs to just right, not too fast, not too slow, and consistent.

Again, the IR remote trigger I mentioned above is the best solution so far that does not involve modifying the amp. The circuit drives a relay connected to pins 3 and 6 of the amp (parallel to the front panel switch). Each time you press the programmed button on any IR remote, the relay closes for .5 second.

[Srrndhound]

I've tried thinking up a relay-only trigger solution in the past, but its not workable. If that was practical, Classé would not have employed electronic control of the triggering. The timing needs to just right, not too fast, not too slow, and consistent.

Hi Glen,

If the amp were as sensitive to timing as you say, I doubt humans would be having much luck in turning them on and off. Yes, their implementation of the 4013 flops is not great at debouncing, but that's a separate issue from the duration one holds the button.

This circuit ought to work. RY2 needs as much current in the on transition as the off, so RY1 assures that. The main trick is finding the right value for C1 to get a sufficient duration closure of RY2.

[Gianluca]

I thought the same from looking at the soft start schematic...duration is not so important. The setup I worked on in prototype blinked an LED on 12v trigger being on and also when removed. I understand basic electronics although I really screwed up on my project. You could just put a N/O momentary switch on pin 3 and 6 so duration is really not a factor I think. As to my Classe used a complex way to achieve this is beyond me. Maybe to protect the sensitive soft start electronics.

Luca

[Gianluca]

The amp made it to classe repair center and turns out that I blew a single IC (555 timer). 1 dollar chip 180 dollar repair ironic...I asked them if there was a way to turn the amp on and off using a regular trigger they told me that a pigtail was made to bypass the on/off switch and that a triggered power bar could then be used to have it turn on. In my case it works out perfectly since my APC H15 apparently has delayed outlets controlled by a 12v trigger. I will test it when it gets back.

BTW a pigtail costs about 20 bucks

Luca

[Glen B]

....opcorn:

[Gianluca]

Hi All,

For future reference if it can help anyone out...

The pigtail wire built by Classe works as it should, when the pigtail is pluged in the remote port it will automatically turn the amp on when a 12v triggered power bar is used.So anytime power is applied to the amp it will turn on. In my case I am using the delayed outlets on my APC H15, works like a charm.

Cost of pigtail is about 20bucks.

Luca

[sskim]

Hi All,

For future reference if it can help anyone out...

The pigtail wire built by Classe works as it should, when the pigtail is pluged in the remote port it will automatically turn the amp on when a 12v triggered power bar is used.So anytime power is applied to the amp it will turn on. In my case I am using the delayed outlets on my APC H15, works like a charm.

Cost of pigtail is about 20bucks.

Luca

Please let me know if I got this right.
I have CAV-75 which has the same "phone jack" as CAV-150. I also have Rotel RLC1040 which is the same as APC H15. If I want to turn the amp on remotely, I would purchase the pigtail from Classe, connect the pigtail to amp and to the "DC in" jack on power conditioner. I then connect "DC out" jack on power conditioner to pre/pro "DC trigger" jack. Connect CAV-75's power cord to the "Delayed" outlet on power conditioner. When my pre/pro is turned on, CAV-75 should turn on as well, right?
Thanks for your help.

Sung

[Gianluca]

Please let me know if I got this right.
I have CAV-75 which has the same "phone jack" as CAV-150. I also have Rotel RLC1040 which is the same as APC H15. If I want to turn the amp on remotely, I would purchase the pigtail from Classe, connect the pigtail to amp and to the "DC in" jack on power conditioner. I then connect "DC out" jack on power conditioner to pre/pro "DC trigger" jack. Connect CAV-75's power cord to the "Delayed" outlet on power conditioner. When my pre/pro is turned on, CAV-75 should turn on as well, right?
Thanks for your help.

Sung

Not quite...

The Pigtail is pluged in the remote trigger of your amp, it has no other connection to any trigger. You then would connect your trigger out from your pre/pro to the RLC1040 tigger in, then plug the amps power cord to the delayed power recepticle.

This should then turn your amps on when the prepro triggers the RLC1040. You should also check with Classé if your amps use the same trigger system as my CA-150.

Hope this helps

Luca

[sskim]

Not quite...

The Pigtail is pluged in the remote trigger of your amp, it has no other connection to any trigger. You then would connect your trigger out from your pre/pro to the RLC1040 tigger in, then plug the amps power cord to the delayed power recepticle.

This should then turn your amps on when the prepro triggers the RLC1040. You should also check with Classé if your amps use the same trigger system as my CA-150.

Hope this helps

Luca

yes, thanks much!

[Srrndhound]

The pigtail wire built by Classe works as it should, when the pigtail is pluged in the remote port it will automatically turn the amp on when a 12v triggered power bar is used.So anytime power is applied to the amp it will turn on. In my case I am using the delayed outlets on my APC H15, works like a charm.

I think what is slightly confusing (it was to me, too) is the mention of the 12 trigger. The pigtail doesn't care what activates the switched AC output that powers the amp. The amp will just always be on when the switched AC outlet is active.

[sskim]

Not quite...

The Pigtail is pluged in the remote trigger of your amp, it has no other connection to any trigger. You then would connect your trigger out from your pre/pro to the RLC1040 tigger in, then plug the amps power cord to the delayed power recepticle.

This should then turn your amps on when the prepro triggers the RLC1040. You should also check with Classé if your amps use the same trigger system as my CA-150.

Hope this helps

Luca

I connected my gears as you had described, purchased the pigtail from Classe, and now I don't have to walk up to turn on and off my amp.
Thanks Luca!

[Gianluca]

Happy this helped...


Luca

[crick]

Anyone still have one of these RC-1 or a pigtail that I could get my hands on? Just revived a CA-400