CA5200 in bi-amp?!?

**beden1** · 24 July 2009, 12:28 Friday

If you get the opportunity, try to demo a pair of mono amps like the CAM-400s with your 803Ds, instead of bi-amping. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by how good it sounds.

I love my 803D's with the CAM-350's!

**style** · 25 July 2009, 04:46 Saturday

Hallo Broolk,

long time without news

,

I don't know... with a 802d too i will go with 2 x CA2200 in bi-amp. vs. 2x CAm400....:
question: what is your target? power or more transparent sound?

with my 803D in bi-amp. I think is the transpartent the best thing.
Never tried with 2xcam400 but the bi-amp. have me very surprised.
I always thought that the bi-amp was an easy solution, more simply,... vs. a "big" ampli like the CAM400 but I'm not so sure....

brook your CAM350 in Europa are little the St.Graal: never see a piece in a second hand.....
I have see a for €. 1500.-!!! change in USd. and 8O

give me a feed back..
gr. Omar

**beden1** · 25 July 2009, 09:28 Saturday

Originally posted by style

Hallo Broolk,

long time without news

,

I don't know... with a 802d too i will go with 2 x CA2200 in bi-amp. vs. 2x CAm400....:
question: what is your target? power or more transparent sound?

with my 803D in bi-amp. I think is the transpartent the best thing.
Never tried with 2xcam400 but the bi-amp. have me very surprised.
I always thought that the bi-amp was an easy solution, more simply,... vs. a "big" ampli like the CAM400 but I'm not so sure....

brook your CAM350 in Europa are little the St.Graal: never see a piece in a second hand.....
I have see a for €. 1500.-!!! change in USd. and 8O

give me a feed back..
gr. Omar

Omar,

I have a CAV-150 which I use bi-amped for my HTM2D, and for the surrounds. The amp sounds great, but, just not as great as do the CAM-350s driving the 803Ds. That's why I'm thinking the CAM-400s, as the CAM-350s are hard to find.

My CAV-150 bi-amped - 2x150 watts = 300 watts. Even though this would appear to be close to the rated 350 watts from the CAM-350s, I still have to set the gain for the center channel to +3.

The 803Ds with mono amp combo is terrific, and very transparent/realistic with great depth. They just seem to have unlimited headroom, and are never stressed.

What I particularly like when listening to music, is that there is full sound and detail from the 803Ds even at low volume gains.

I'm not trying to spend your money, but you were talking about buying another multi-channel amp.

Did you buy 802Ds?

**Kal Rubinson** · 25 July 2009, 09:58 Saturday

Originally posted by beden1

My CAV-150 bi-amped - 2x150 watts = 300 watts.

Not so. The increased power from biamping is minimal since, monoamped or biamped, the woofers still draw the most power and the amp for the HF is never called upon for much.

Even though this would appear to be close to the rated 350 watts from the CAM-350s, I still have to set the gain for the center channel to +3.

Again, this is misleading as power rating and biamping do not change gain or sensitivity.

Kal

**style** · 25 July 2009, 10:03 Saturday

Hi Brook,

I have a CAV-150 which I use bi-amped for my HTM2D, and for the surrounds. The amp sounds great, but, just not as great as do the CAM-350s driving the 803Ds. That's why I'm thinking the CAM-400s, as the CAM-350s are hard to find.

I agree, that's right.

Weel a extra CA5200 and go made a complety 5.1 bi.amp. will be very great!!!

and in the future a 802D antd the 803D placed as rear :T :T - the SACD with so one system will be amazing.

You like the Sony product right?

-----------:
Extra power or extra transparent sound? I like the sound more transparent
If you can have 4 x cam400 and bi.amp. dthe left&right OKE!!!

Omar

**beden1** · 25 July 2009, 11:48 Saturday

Originally posted by Kal Rubinson

Not so. The increased power from biamping is minimal since, monoamped or biamped, the woofers still draw the most power and the amp for the HF is never called upon for much.

Again, this is misleading as power rating and biamping do not change gain or sensitivity.

Kal

The one thing I can't figure out regarding the difference in gain, is that all amps are connected via balanced cables. If not for the difference in power ratings as you are saying, then why do I find it more balanced upping the gain on the center channel?

With bi-aming though, the bass speakers would get a true 150 watts in my system, as opposed to having to compete with the demands of the upper frequencies and speakers if only one set of channels were connected, would it not?

**beden1** · 25 July 2009, 11:52 Saturday

Originally posted by style

Hi Brook,

I agree, that's right.

Weel a extra CA5200 and go made a complety 5.1 bi.amp. will be very great!!!

and in the future a 802D antd the 803D placed as rear :T :T - the SACD with so one system will be amazing.

You like the Sony product right?

-----------:
Extra power or extra transparent sound? I like the sound more transparent
If you can have 4 x cam400 and bi.amp. dthe left&right OKE!!!

Omar

Omar,

The more I listen to my system since getting the SSP-800, the less I am interested in getting 802Ds to replace the 803Ds for the main fronts. They hold their own really well, particularly when I include my subs, and their synergy with the HTM2D is just very very good.

I would be interested in adding 805Ds for the surrounds, if they ever come out.

**KahunaCanuck** · 25 July 2009, 14:17 Saturday

Originally posted by beden1

Omar,

The more I listen to my system since getting the SSP-800, the less I am interested in getting 802Ds to replace the 803Ds for the main fronts. They hold their own really well, particularly when I include my subs, and their synergy with the HTM2D is just very very good.

I would be interested in adding 805Ds for the surrounds, if they ever come out.

I am in the same boat as you, the SSP 800 "raised the game" so much I think the 802D upgrade I was toying with will be pushed off a long ways.

As for the amps, I had tried biamping in the past, and have to say it was pretty much a failed experiment. You would think 2 amps instead of one would make it sound a lot better, but it doesn't. I think having a better amplifier controlling the speaker will be a better upgrade than biamping in most situations. I am not saying the CA 5200 isn't a great amp, but a biamped setup with that vs. CA 400s are not comparable I don't think... and hey, that is half the fun of this hobby, trying things out! :^x

**Kal Rubinson** · 25 July 2009, 15:25 Saturday

Originally posted by beden1

The one thing I can't figure out regarding the difference in gain, is that all amps are connected via balanced cables. If not for the difference in power ratings as you are saying, then why do I find it more balanced upping the gain on the center channel?

I have no idea.

With bi-aming though, the bass speakers would get a true 150 watts in my system, as opposed to having to compete with the demands of the upper frequencies and speakers if only one set of channels were connected, would it not?

Exactly. However, the difference is small since the power demands of the upper frequencies is comparatively small. I did not say there would be no difference in power availability, only that the difference is small and much less that the 2X often stated.

A 300w amp offers much more power than a pair of 150w amps connected via passive bi-amping.

Kal

**style** · 25 July 2009, 18:14 Saturday

Hi Brook,

The more I listen to my system since getting the SSP-800, the less I am interested in getting 802Ds to replace the 803Ds for the main fronts. They hold their own really well, particularly when I include my subs, and their synergy with the HTM2D is just very very good.

I would be interested in adding 805Ds for the surrounds, if they ever come out.

yes, at this moment I'm not so interessed to change my 803D wit the 802D...
the big "jump" is sure from the 803S to the 803D and not from the 803D to the 802D.... You caln listen deffenrece from the 803S to the 803D much more from the 3D to the 2D and like you i'm very happy wth my speakers...

The new 805D?!? will be available in the next 2 years??? or so like that...
But I will make a 803D,Htm2D and 805D, the 703 today as rear will be sold?
or you "believe " in a 7.1/2 system??
I have the 605s as rear and replace the 05s with the 805D, in a great 5.1 system is very interessing. I don't will make a channel system.
if the 805D ever come out will be too expensive or?
B&W will change/replace all the D serie? I dont think in so one "big" operation
in a so bad economic situation...
If the 805D, like bookshelf speaker, can give a sound very great and with a sub system like yours will be better as the 803D 8O ?? expecialy in a "small/mediun" room.

The Htm2D in bi.amp with your Clase give 150 pro HF and 150 for theLF and you have a very transparent sound, in the movie will give you a very impressive quality (dialoge movie with not so much ection - explosion,...)

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson
Not so. The increased power from biamping is minimal since, monoamped or biamped, the woofers still draw the most power and the amp for the HF is never called upon for much.
Again, this is misleading as power rating and biamping do not change gain or sensitivity

uhmm the HF don't "work so much like the LF Oke, but you go comapre a 2
"woofer" vs. a tweeter from 25mm.! the gian in Db. I don't know but the sensitivity is very better and udible always! that's is sure!

Brook a system with "big" speakers (in dimension) can be give not always the best sound: a system with the 805D - htm2D front and the 805S rear can be a very big surprise!!!

Omar

**Kal Rubinson** · 25 July 2009, 18:55 Saturday

Originally posted by style

uhmm the HF don't "work so much like the LF Oke, but you go comapre a 2 "woofer" vs. a tweeter from 25mm.! the gian in Db. I don't know but the sensitivity is very better and udible always! that's is sure!

Yup. The 25mm tweeter will not ever need or see the power that, say, a 200mm bass driver will.

Kal

**style** · 26 July 2009, 03:41 Sunday

Yup. The 25mm tweeter will not ever need or see the power that, say, a 200mm bass driver will.

Kal, I don't think that "how much is big" is the critical point with the bi.amp
I can too write that the 200bass driver will not ever need the power from the 25 tweeter....

@KahunaCanuck: was a passive or active bi.amp?
Believe me, a paar of 80xD in bi-amp. with 2 CA2200 give you more vs. 2 CAM400.
is always waht do you like/need!!!: power or sound transparent???
if you can buy 4 x cam400 and make a bi.amp with fully power and perfect sound details!!!!

In Switzerland a lot, well people with so one Classe system $$$$, they go with 2 CA5200 in bi.amp with the 801/800D and the other HT speakers...

At first I was too contra the bi.amping: is a solution of convenience...you don't can buy a "big" ampli and go with the bi.amp. No, is really not so.

OT: The 805D will be a small speaker like the 805s or a stand??

style

**beden1** · 26 July 2009, 10:06 Sunday

Originally posted by Kal Rubinson

I have no idea.

Exactly. However, the difference is small since the power demands of the upper frequencies is comparatively small. I did not say there would be no difference in power availability, only that the difference is small and much less that the 2X often stated.

A 300w amp offers much more power than a pair of 150w amps connected via passive bi-amping.

Kal

I think you answered my question then. I find the need to boost the gain on my HTM2D that is powered in a bi-amp configuration with 2x150 watts, to audibly match my L/R main speakers that are powered by individual mono 350 watt amps. (all 3 front speakers with balanced connections to the SSP-800)

In staying with this line of reasoning, the question is then, how much power do you actually need for your system to perform at optimum levels for all frequencies? This equation would change depending on many factors including room specifications and speaker impedence, but, I am finding that 350 watts per channel (amp can double down to 4 ohms) seems to be an audible sweet spot for my 803D's when left on their own without any LFE support.

**Kal Rubinson** · 26 July 2009, 12:07 Sunday

Originally posted by style

I can too write that the 200bass driver will not ever need the power from the 25 tweeter....

No, you cannot say that since the issue is based on the power spectrum of music signals. Individual driver sensitivity is not an issue with passive bi-amping since the crossover balances that out.

Kal

CA5200 in bi-amp?!?

CA5200 in bi-amp?!?

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