Bi-amping 802Ds with CA-M400s

[Oddiophile]

Hi,

Has anyone out there done this or heard this and if so is it worth the extra outlay?

Has anyone done this through an SSP-800?

Thanks,

Jim

[BWLover]

Vince Parnell at Premier Audio in Edmonton has the 802D's bi amped with
4 CA-M400's
CP-700 pre
CDP-502 source

my dream set up haha. give him a call. (this is his personal system by the way)

[Oddiophile]

Hi,

I know Vince quite well--a great guy. I wonder if he has his system set up in his new house yet.

I will certainly give him a call and try to arrange a session next time I am in Edmonton, likely the end of June to audition the SSP-800.

Thanks for the info. I did not know he had a biamp setup.

Jim

[style]

in place of the CP700 gowith the SSP800.

you don't need a Y adapter for the XLR cables :W

the sound from the SSP with 4 CAM400 is amazing.
go setting the ssp with a bi and standard modus.....ou go have a lot of possibility of setting.

Style

[Oddiophile]

Style,

I am almost certain to go with the SSP-800 whatever I decide. Incidentally, I think that Vince Parnell is going to do the same thing with his system. However, there is so much demand for the SSP-800 that as soon as one arrives in the store it is sold to a custormer. (Vince works for Premier Audio, an excellent hi-fi store).

If I bi-amped, I would still have to use y-connectors because I have 2 B&W ASW-855 subs. At least that is the way that Classe recommends that it be connected with such a system.

Nice to see we are all on the same page (literally as well as figuratively LOL).

Thanks,

Jim

[hifiguymi]

You don't need y-connectors with the CP-700 either. It has two sets of balanced outputs.

Eric

[wettou]

Hi, Has anyone out there done this or heard this and if so is it worth the extra outlay? Has anyone done this through an SSP-800?
Thanks, Jim

Talk about over kill, :E just use the new Bryston 1000W/Channel at 8Ω or the new musical fidelity 1000W or the new Boulder all 100W!

How big is you room?

[Oddiophile]

Wettou,

My room is 23' 10" X 15' 8" x 9'

I am far more likely to go for the SSP-800 than the biamping. However, I would still like to hear that biamp combination of the CA-M400s and the B&W802Ds.

I have 802Ds + 2 X CA-M400 amps + 2 X B&W ASW855 subs.

Jim

[style]

Hy Oddiophile,

the CP700 is sure a good pre but with your price in europa I will go with other pre in stereo (Nagra,PassLabs,emmLabx,krell.> krell ONLY PRE the final from Krell Idon't like very much)

anyway with the SSP800 you don't have any problem! Is one of the Best (or the Better) pre today available in stereo too!: the DAc inside is without rivals.


I have with a friend tey work at Classe Switzerland posed the question of pay to buy a CP700 to have better sound in stereo vs. the SSP800.
he say me only: You are crazy?

Sure all depend too from what you will as end-resultat, what for music you go listen,...
Classe enprove the go via digital with the source becouse is the Way to have the Max from the SSP800.

Style

[wettou]

Wettou, My room is 23' 10" X 15' 8" x 9'

I am far more likely to go for the SSP-800 than the biamping. However, I would still like to hear that biamp combination of the CA-M400s and the B&W802Ds. I have 802Ds + 2 X CA-M400 amps + 2 X B&W ASW855 subs. Jim

Very nice I really don't think you need Bi Amping but hey if you have the cash and it makes you happy go for it

[Oddiophile]

Very nice I really don't think you need Bi Amping but hey if you have the cash and it makes you happy go for it

Wettou,

I think you are almost certainly right. By the time you add extra interconnects, y-connectors, speaker wire, a couple of 2-shelf racks, etc., not to mention room clutter, I doubt if it is worth the extra benefit in terms of value. However, it will sure be fun listening to it; at least that doesn't cost anything (well probably supper at a good Italian restaurant called Fiori's).

I will almost certainly spend the money and get the SSP-800. I am in no hurry as my dealer won't likely be getting more in until the end of June. He is hoping that the upgrade board will be ready at that time so he can avoid the inconvenience of swapping out boards. It is certainly not convenient for me to drive 350 miles each way to Edmonton for that purpose either and shipping would be a bit of a hassle too.

Jim

[wettou]

Wettou, I think you are almost certainly right. By the time you add extra interconnects, y-connectors, speaker wire, a couple of 2-shelf racks, etc., not to mention room clutter, I doubt if it is worth the extra benefit in terms of value. However, it will sure be fun listening to it; at least that doesn't cost anything (well probably supper at a good Italian restaurant called Fiori's).

I will almost certainly spend the money and get the SSP-800. I am in no hurry as my dealer won't likely be getting more in until the end of June. He is hoping that the upgrade board will be ready at that time so he can avoid the inconvenience of swapping out boards. It is certainly not convenient for me to drive 350 miles each way to Edmonton for that purpose either and shipping would be a bit of a hassle too. Jim

Jim, Classé mentioned that the upgraded processor will not be available in June Hopefully before CEDIA 2009 in September

[style]

For the DSP upgrade is not a "made yourself".... ops:

Oddiophile, in europa come Classe at homeand make the work...

Oke,europa and Switzerland in not USA but before the cedia 2009 this upgrade will be available at 90%.

greeting Omat

[wettou]

For the DSP upgrade ..before the cedia 2009 this upgrade will be available at 90%.

Well let's bet and see I sure hope it is out by then!!! May be they will incorporate HDMi 1.4 :roll:

[sikoniko]

Well let's bet and see I sure hope it is out by then!!! May be they will incorporate HDMi 1.4 :roll:

do you have a 4k x 2k projector and source content that would be required?

[wettou]

do you have a 4k x 2k projector and source content that would be required?

Yes I was planing to Buy the Sony 4K :B

[sikoniko]

Yes I was planing to Buy the Sony 4K :B

what about the source content? how are you getting that?

[rickc]

The way to go is with the CP700 biamped if your are in to 2 channel. The SSP 800 will be a good processor just like the SSP 600. I have a SSP 600 for surround and for seious two channel I listen to my CP700. I have two cam 400's and a 5200 for my amps. I have posted in other areas the fact that the SSP 800 is solid but for your money and investment protection the CP700 is better. You can buy an SSP 800 for $6K on some web sites after only 6 months on the market. The CP700 I bought as a demo and saved, but it has held its value and will hold its value better then any SSP processor. The reason is that it is built specfically for one thing. The best in two channel sound, That is why it has a seperate power supply etc. The SSP 800 also has a lot of software issues. They will get them worked out. My SSP 600 had the same issues when I first got it 3 years ago. All of the Classe products are first rate, but you need to decide what you are building a system for? 2 channel or movies?

[Oddiophile]

Rick,

My system will be multichannel but mainly for music. If I go with Classe, as seems likely, it will be with the SSP-800.

Jim

[rickc]

I think that you will be happy with any Classe product

[beden1]

The way to go is with the CP700 biamped if your are in to 2 channel. The SSP 800 will be a good processor just like the SSP 600. I have a SSP 600 for surround and for seious two channel I listen to my CP700. I have two cam 400's and a 5200 for my amps. I have posted in other areas the fact that the SSP 800 is solid but for your money and investment protection the CP700 is better. You can buy an SSP 800 for $6K on some web sites after only 6 months on the market. The CP700 I bought as a demo and saved, but it has held its value and will hold its value better then any SSP processor. The reason is that it is built specfically for one thing. The best in two channel sound, That is why it has a seperate power supply etc. The SSP 800 also has a lot of software issues. They will get them worked out. My SSP 600 had the same issues when I first got it 3 years ago. All of the Classe products are first rate, but you need to decide what you are building a system for? 2 channel or movies?

I think you are referring to the "One" SSP-800 that was listed on Audiogon for $6,000.

I agree that the CP-700 is an excellent pre-amp, but, some of us are finding out that the SSP-800 may be providing the best of both worlds for stereo and multi-channel.

Also, there were a number of CP-700's that were languishing on Audiogon for several months last year. I hope you were able to negotiate a very good price for yours.

[style]

Originally Posted by rickc ......

Hi rickc,

At today the SSP800 is better vs. the CP700. The software problem in the SSP was for the HT and not for the 2 channel.
The CP700 ,like wrote Beden1, is a good preampli but the SSP800 or other at first they must give a good or great performance in 2 channel than you can work for the ohter channel = HT. is a surroundSoundProc. don't give great soundin 2 channel stop. and make new design, the idea is not good ...who can give you a great HT perfomance if don't is a at level to "sound" at 2 channel???
With your system with a "only ssp800" you can "play " with the trigger and go in ON only with the 2 CAM400 or only in HT with the CA5200.
Classe have a lot of years studys to product the "new" 800; a product that must replace a piece like the 600 and not only a Hdmi card inside....
The DAC in the SSP800 is very amazing, is not easy found better today...
(well $$$$ :W )
and think at the Hdmi "problem" from the SSP: becouse the $.2k pre ssp from
Denon,onkyo,and,and they work without problem at the first production?
Are by Classe stupid? hey man, is a Hdmi and Hdmi:
is y say you, rickc come with me to head at the pause from work...ok, that's right: we go to Xy restaurant. --> I have pause from 12.30 to 14.30, you from 12:00 to 13:00 = we do not meet !!
the problem is not the HDMI that does not work but the times are not equal.
The Hdmi is a very complicate "parts" and not all the company are at the same "linie"...
I think you have understand what I will say...

greeting Style

OT: Hi Brook, all right? a PM or mail??

[style]

double

[sikoniko]

The way to go is with the CP700 biamped if your are in to 2 channel. The SSP 800 will be a good processor just like the SSP 600. I have a SSP 600 for surround and for seious two channel I listen to my CP700. I have two cam 400's and a 5200 for my amps. I have posted in other areas the fact that the SSP 800 is solid but for your money and investment protection the CP700 is better. You can buy an SSP 800 for $6K on some web sites after only 6 months on the market. The CP700 I bought as a demo and saved, but it has held its value and will hold its value better then any SSP processor. The reason is that it is built specfically for one thing. The best in two channel sound, That is why it has a seperate power supply etc. The SSP 800 also has a lot of software issues. They will get them worked out. My SSP 600 had the same issues when I first got it 3 years ago. All of the Classe products are first rate, but you need to decide what you are building a system for? 2 channel or movies?

welcome to the 21st century. we no longer use wood to make fire. there are electric starters, lighters and matches now available. we also have communication devices such as mobile phones, and land line phones (I see you've found the internet, still using windows95?). we are no longer dependent on the pony express. we've also discovered that the dark ages were wrong, and flies do not come from meat. urbanization is becoming overrated with this whole "green" movement, and due to recent technology, we are finding that it might actually be more efficient for people to work from home in some cases. finally, while our founding fathers thought freedom was an unalienable right, and the country should be led "by the people and for the people" our current government believes that people are too dumb and should have limited rights, and that communism under the name "hope" and "change" is the way to go.

[rickc]

Sikoniko:

What kind of ridicules response is this!
I can’t believe that you would respond to my comments in this type of ridiculous manor. I quote my opinions just like the rest of the Classe users and I believe that I am very justified in my position about the CP700 versus the SSP800. The comments about HDMI and software etc make no reference to my opinion on why I choose to just add a CP700 versus wasting money on a SSP800. This is my opinion, my dealer’s opinion and the engineer that I discussed this with from Classe before I purchased my new 2 channel preamp. I make a living in the IT industry, so I believe that I understand technology better then most. The SSP 800 is a fine product. If you want an all in one box that does many things it is one of the best. My point is that for me 2 channel sound is more important and I could have bought a SSP800, but I did not want to invest in a product that will depreciate faster then any other type of processor because it is a SSP processor. Just like the SSP 600 you can pick them up for $2K. Your SSP 800 will be worth about $4K within a year. A 50% hit is not a good investment to me. The CP700 has been on the market for over 3 years and is still holding its value.

[rickc]

I did 50% off with a 5 year warranty

[sikoniko]

Sikoniko:

What kind of ridicules response is this!
I can’t believe that you would respond to my comments in this type of ridiculous manor. I quote my opinions just like the rest of the Classe users and I believe that I am very justified in my position about the CP700 versus the SSP800. The comments about HDMI and software etc make no reference to my opinion on why I choose to just add a CP700 versus wasting money on a SSP800. This is my opinion, my dealer’s opinion and the engineer that I discussed this with from Classe before I purchased my new 2 channel preamp. I make a living in the IT industry, so I believe that I understand technology better then most. The SSP 800 is a fine product. If you want an all in one box that does many things it is one of the best. My point is that for me 2 channel sound is more important and I could have bought a SSP800, but I did not want to invest in a product that will depreciate faster then any other type of processor because it is a SSP processor. Just like the SSP 600 you can pick them up for $2K. Your SSP 800 will be worth about $4K within a year. A 50% hit is not a good investment to me. The CP700 has been on the market for over 3 years and is still holding its value.

you're right in that you are entitled to your opinion. The problem is, you have no experience in comparing the CP-700 vs the SSP-800, since you did not directly compare the two, but went off of word-of-mouth. Therefore, you are basing your opinion off of assumption, not fact. you should be more forth-right when giving your opinion, instead of leaving out facts that are important for people looking for direction.

as far as depreciation value, just as any new car driven off of a lot, there will be depreciation of any used good. Since we have only seen one unit sold, it is difficult to judge that depreciated value of the SSP. Not big enough of a sample size. We don't know the circumstances of that unit or how quickly they needed to sell it or even how much they paid for it initially. Times are tough for people right now. I'd expect a lot of people are liquidating entertainment items to survive and I'm sure if you held out, you coulda found a CP-700 for greater than 50% off on the used market. I'm not sure one can define 50% off as holding its value either.

I think evolution is natural. sometimes for the better sometimes not. But, saying the CP-700 is better than the SSP-800 at 2 channel, while never directly comparing the two is misleading. The thought that the SSP-800 is inferior based on a paradigm that a single purpose model must be superior is a flawed paradigm. It is further flawed when saying the steakholders are the opinion's you valued the most when making a decision. They will both be great units, but they will be different. Not everyone will agree which is better, or even on the same merits.


Finally, as a personal aside, I to am in IT and am curious what you do? Just because we don't agree doesn't mean we can't be friends. :T I work for a small company and im charge of all windows servers (around 85), though I've been doing a lot with citrix specifically lately.

[rickc]

Sikoniko:

Your right.... I have never listened to the SSP800. I am making an opinion based on what my dealer ( Chicagos biggest Classe dealer) and the conversation that I had with one of the engineers thats works for Classe. I called them and asked for their opnion and got it. This is also based on my desire to have the best in 2 channel. Each of us make decesion and I am trying to educate the folks out their about the differences with Classe products.

btw:

I am sales manager for a data storage company.

[wettou]

you're right in that you are entitled to your opinion. coulda found a CP-700 for greater than 50% off on the used market. I'm not sure one can define 50% off as holding its value either.

Just so we are clear

SSP-800 MSRP $8000

Dealer cost $4000

Which means the moment it leaves the show room it just dropped 50% so if you are buying gear as an investment well it's just like the stock market. :W

The main difference is it will bring you joy for many years.

[sikoniko]

Just so we are clear

SSP-800 MSRP $8000

Dealer cost $4000

Which means the moment it leaves the show room it just dropped 50% so if you are buying gear as an investment well it's just like the stock market. :W

your dealer cost number is wrong - it is actually higher. irregardless of cost, highend dealers need room for a large markup. They don't sell the volume in specialty items that best buy does in mass market items.

The main difference is it will bring you joy for many years.

I think this is the real point. dollar cost and enjoyment value aren't always aligned.

[sikoniko]

Sikoniko:

Your right.... I have never listened to the SSP800. I am making an opinion based on what my dealer ( Chicagos biggest Classe dealer) and the conversation that I had with one of the engineers thats works for Classe. I called them and asked for their opnion and got it. This is also based on my desire to have the best in 2 channel. Each of us make decesion and I am trying to educate the folks out their about the differences with Classe products.

for the sake of argument, how do you know you got the best if you didn't listen to it? audio is quite subjective and opinions differ greatly from person to person.

True, the CP-700 was designed to do analog 2 channel really well; however, its technology has been ecliped by technology and engineering that is available today in the SSP-800. Classe is now able to do more with less.

I'm not confident there is a "best" between the two. They are different. Do you listen to records? It is Classe's best offering if you do. CD's are old news. hard drive based audio is the "best" medium for audio delivery (SSD's are reportedly the way to go) - debatebly better than reel or vinyl. The CP-700 would require an external DAC to facilitate that. So under that criteria, the CP-700 falls short and the Benchmark Pre is better, and cheaper (and shares technology with the SSP-800 btw).

anyways, my point is not that the CP-700 isn't a nice product, but it does fall short with the times and is not the best for all situations. Even classe realizes the dimished value of CDP's. If you don't believe me, re-read Dave's Q&A about the SSP-800.

[Oddiophile]

Sikonko and Rickc,

Gentlemen, don't you think we are getting a little off-topic? As it happens, I had not even considered a 2-channel pre-amp. I am a multichannel music kind of guy and so I will be getting a surround sound processor and it will probably be a Classe SSP-800 unless something else comes out in the next 3 months to change my mind.

I hope to hear the CA-M400s biamped sometime this month and I will report on my experiences.

Jim

[wettou]

I hope to hear the CA-M400s biamped sometime this month and I will report on my experiences. Jim

Careful you might have to make the plunge and there goes an other $10,000