Classe Upgrade For Best 2 Channel Performance?

[rickc]

Okay guys it has been a while since I have been on this site, but I need some advice!

This is what I need some help with?

I want to upgrade my current system to produce the best 2 channel set up that I can get without going broke?

My current set up is as follows:
SSP 600
CDP 300
2 CA-400's
1 CA-5200
all transparent cables
Pioneer elite plasma
all B&W surrrounds with 802D's, sub, center and SCMS rears
Richard Gray 1200

Option #1
Do I just add a CP700 to my existing set up and run the SSP mode?

It is my understanding that the weakest link in my system is the SSP 600? I run my 2 channel thru the bypass right to my CDP 300.

If I do this what is the down side? I can get a CP700 for about $6K from my dealer. I am going to try this with a in home demo etc? Why don't more guys look at just adding a CP700 to their existing surround sound systems? What am I missing here? I know that we all like the look and sound of Classe. Thats why we bought it!

My dealer was very clear that he thought that any SSP600 or SSP800 would not sound as good as a dedicated preamp etc? I am really happy with my SSP 600 and my video/ surround sound performance is excellent. I really don't think that the SSP800 will do much for me. I would also have to take a bath on the SSP 600. My dealer can not even sell his current demo. It is on sale for $3K? Odds are strong that the SSP 800 will have the same downward spiral when the new solutions come out from server based systems.

Option #2 would be to upgrade my CDP 300 to a dedicated CD player , but I don't think that their is much of a difference between the CDP 300 and 202, etc? In fact, I can't imagine any CD player sounding that much better then what I have today? It sounds great! At least not $6 to $15K better than what I could notice?

I do believe that their are better cd players like the Ayre or Merridian box. The Ayre would be about $6K, but the Merridian would be about $15K? (808.1) I really don't like the look of the Ayre CD players versus Classe? The other plus with a new CD player is that I would look for one that I could use its DACs for a music server down the road etc?

Option #3 is to buy a great DAC and make the jump to a music server which would cost about $15K all up and in?

Option #4 would be to buy the new Ayre preamp and use it in the SSP mode. The down side to this is that it is $18K and then I would probably lean toward getting their new mono blocks and this is way to expensive? It seems that all of the preamp combos sound best with the same brands (preamps and amps) like Classe, Ayre, Merridian and Spectral etc.


Let me know your thoughts? Has anyone compared the SSP600/ SSP800 to a CP700 for 2 channel? If so, was their much of a difference?

[sikoniko]

Okay guys it has been a while since I have been on this site, but I need some advice!

This is what I need some help with?

I want to upgrade my current system to produce the best 2 channel set up that I can get without going broke?

My current set up is as follows:
SSP 600
CDP 300
2 cam 400's
1 5200
all transparent cables
Pioneer elite plasma
all B&W surrrounds with 802D's, sub, center and rears

option #1
Do I just add a CP700 to my existing set up and run the SSP mode?

I wouldn't. I think the CP700 is great if you need a phono preamp or for a dedicated 2 channel system.

It is my understanding that the weakest link in my system is the SSP 600? I run my 2 channel thru the bypass right to my CDP 300.

If I do this what is the down side? I can get a CP700 for about $6K from my dealer. I am going to try this with a in home demo etc? Why don't more guys look at just adding a CP700 to their existing surround sound systems? What am I missing here? I know that we all like the look and sound of Classe. Thats why we bought it!

My dealer was very clear that he thought that any SSP600 or SSP800 would not sound as good as a dedicated preamp etc? I am really happy with my SSP 600 and my video/ surround sound performance is excellent. I really don't think that the SSP800 will do much for me. I would also have to take a bath on the SSP 600. My dealer can not even sell his current demo. It is on sale for $3K? Odds are strong that the SSP 800 will have the same downward spiral when the new solutions come out from server based systems.

This is where it comes down to opinion. If you sold your SSP-600 for $3000, you would put $5000 into the difference of getting an SSP-800, if your dealer made you pay cost and you agreed to it. I'd find another dealer if he won't give you any discount.

I disagree with his assessment on the SSP-800 vs CP-700. The CP-700 has its place, and I wouldn't put it in your system. I doubt you would tell much difference from the CP-700 to the SSP-800. The CP-700 might be a little warmer.

Option #2 would be to upgrade my CDP 300 to a dedicated CD player , but I don't think that their is much of a difference between the CDP 300 and 202, etc? In fact, I can't imagine any CD player sounding that much better then what I have today? It sounds great! At least not $6 to $15K better than what I could notice?

The CDP-202 is better than the CDP-300. Different DACs and different build strategy. The person who developed the acclaimed Linn Unidisk is behind the CDP-202.

I do believe that their are better cd players like the Ayre or Merridian box. The Ayre would be about $6K, but the Merridian would be about $15K? (808.1) I really don't like the look of the Ayre CD players versus Classe? The other plus with a new CD player is that I would look for one that I could use its DACs for a music server down the road etc?

I didn't like the Ayre. I compared both Ayre CDPs to the Classe CDP-100 and even the dealer conceded the Classe sounded better. The Ayre did have more overall bass though.

Option #3 is to buy a great DAC and make the jump to a music server which would cost about $15K all up and in?

The SSP-800 has great DAC's. Buy it instead and save your money.

Option #4 would be to buy the new Ayre preamp and use it in the SSP mode. The down side to this is that it is $18K and then I would probably lean toward getting their new mono blocks and this is way to expensive? It seems that all of the preamp combos sound best with the same brands (preamps and amps) like Classe, Ayre, Merridian and Spectral etc.

Again, this will come down to personal preference, but I still think the SSP-800 is your best bet, and possibly the most economical.

Let me know your thoughts? Has anyone compared the SSP600/ SSP800 to a CP700 for 2 channel? If so, was their much of a difference?

There is a big difference between the SSP-600 and SSP-800. not so much between the CP-700 and SSP-800. more-so subtle differences. Your best ROI will be the SSP-800, as you can use it as a DAC for digital sources, take advantage of hi-res audio and video from Blu-Ray and enjoy your current CDP. You might even decide to sell it and go digital, which would also help your climb to the SSP-800 funds. :T

[rickc]

sikoniko

Thanks for the quick reply.

I guess that I will have to audition these systems to really make a sound decesion. I still feel that my dealers advice about any SSP sounding as good as a dedicated preamp is a stretch. I understand that the SSP 800 is a great unit with the new HDMI connections etc. I do not believe that blueray is in my future plans. I also think that the preamp in the SSP 800 is very similar to the CP500? I think the best justification for going with a SSP 800 from a SSP600 is the fact that your spouse will never catch on that you upgraded the current box? That might be the best reason for going to a SSP800.

I will do a demo and let you know my thoughts. I also concur with my dealer that a dedicated preamp will sound better because it is designed to make 2 channel audio sound the best! Any all in one box will have some type of engineering weaknesses etc.

Bottom line is that I am hooked on this stuff and I want to make it the best that I can.

I would still like to hear some advice from any current CP-700 users.

[sikoniko]

sikoniko

Thanks for the quick reply.

I guess that I will have to audition these systems to really make a sound decesion. I still feel that my dealers advice about any SSP sounding as good as a dedicated preamp is a stretch. I understand that the SSP 800 is a great unit with the new HDMI connections etc. I do not believe that blueray is in my future plans. I also think that the preamp in the SSP 800 is very similar to the CP500? I think the best justification for going with a SSP 800 from a SSP600 is the fact that your spouse will never catch on that you upgraded the current box? That might be the best reason for going to a SSP800.

That is incorrect. The preamp of the SSP-600 is similar to that of the CP-500. The preamp of the SSP-800 is similar to that of the CP-700, with newer technology and better design.

True, the CP-700 is designed for 2 channel dedicated playback, so there are no compromises for building a multi-channel system, but I think you should give the SSP-800 a listen before you judge it.

When the CP-700 eventually gets replaced, it will be borrowing technology from the SSP-800.

I do find it interesting that you would make such a substantial investment in your system, and have no interest in delivering it the highest quality audio and video for surround sound playback, which is ONLY found in Blu-Ray.

If your priority is 2 channel, why not build a dedicated 2 channel system out of your 802D's (or even upgrade to 800D's, which would make a bigger jump over the CP-700) and CA-M400's, and get all 805's for surround sound?

No offense, but I'm not sure I understand why you bought a Pioneer Elite TV. The ONLY source that would do it justice is Blu-Ray. cable or even satellite is so compressed, there wouldn't be much benefit of the elite over a panasonic plasma...

perhaps you would be willing to expand on your current paradigm so we can make better recommendations?

[KahunaCanuck]

I think your dealer is pushing you in the wrong direction...maybe he has more CP 700 stock than SSP 800? My dealer feels strongly that the SSP 800 sounds better for 2 channel than the CP 700(though I never personally compared the 2). Like Sikoniko said, it is the latest design from Classe and they have put everything they know into it to get the best sound out of it. I think the SSP 800 & the new Pioneer Blu Ray flagship would add a whole new world to your current setup with the other benefit of better overall 2 channel sound...for $7k. Best of luck! :T

[beden1]

I think your dealer is pushing you in the wrong direction...maybe he has more CP 700 stock than SSP 800? My dealer feels strongly that the SSP 800 sounds better for 2 channel than the CP 700(though I never personally compared the 2). Like Sikoniko said, it is the latest design from Classe and they have put everything they know into it to get the best sound out of it. I think the SSP 800 & the new Pioneer Blu Ray flagship would add a whole new world to your current setup with the other benefit of better overall 2 channel sound...for $7k. Best of luck! :T

I think the CP-700 and CP-500 pre-amps are warmer than the SSP-800. But, the SSP-800 is an excellent pre-amp that delivers a lot of fine detail.

[rickc]

This is not a situation were my dealer is pushing me to a CP700. If anything the dealer has suggested that I go to Ayre for the best two channel system? Their newest preamp KX-R which has received outstanding reviews. (It should it goes for $18K) His comment was to make two jumps versus one with the CP700. I want to stay with Classe because I like the idea that my system is compatible and looks the same etc. I have the CAM 400's and I have considered upgrading to the 800 series, but my dealer suggested that the preamp is my best bet for an overall improvement in 2 channel sound. I believe that I have that right amps and speakers.

I will have to audition the SSP800 and figure this out on my own? I was hoping that someone had a CP700 that they could comment on. I would also like to here from any Classe users that have set their surround sound system in the SSP mode with a better preamp for 2 channel etc. ( are there any limits to setting up a 2 channel preamp in the SSP mode with a surround sound processor?)

In regards to the SSP 800, I would like to know what the new technology is for the preamp in the SSP 800. What I have read is all about improvements in the video side. When you compare the the audio specs the CP 700 is much better from a distortion, channel seperation and signal to noise ratio? I have also read about all the issues with the current SSP800 software? I bet that there is a minimal (if any) sound improvement from the SSP 800 versus the SSP 600 in 2 channel?

[rickc]

beden1

What Classe processor do you have?

[sikoniko]

This is not a situation were my dealer is pushing me to a CP700. If anything the dealer has suggested that I go to Ayre for the best two channel system? Their newest preamp which has received outstanding reviews. (It should it goes for $18K) His comment was to make two jumps versus one with the CP700. I want to stay with Classe because I like the idea that my system is compatible and looks the same etc. I have the CAM 400's and I have considered upgrading to the 800 series, but my dealer suggested that the preamp is my best bet for an overall improvement in 2 channel sound. I believe that I have that right amps and speakers.

Ayre isn't better. Its different. Different people have different tastes.

I will have to audition the SSP800 and figure this out on my own? I was hoping that someone had a CP700 that they could comment on. I would also like to here from any Classe users that have set their surround sound system in the SSP mode with a better preamp for 2 channel etc. ( are there any limits to setting up a 2 channel preamp in the SSP mode with a surround sound processor?)

Its a shame Rebelman is not here for posts like these. He had a SSP-300, CP-700 and a CDP-202. He sold all three in favor of the SSP-800 and a Sonos and has never looked back.

In regards to the SSP 800, I would like to know what the new technology is for the preamp in the SSP 800. What I have read is all about improvements in the video side. When you compare the the audio specs the CP 700 is much better from a distortion, channel seperation and signal to noise ratio? I have also read about all the issues with the current SSP800 software? I bet that there is a minimal (if any) sound improvement from the SSP 800 versus the SSP 600 in 2 channel?

I think I've offered everything I can, so I hope others are able to tell you what you want to hear. I've owned both the SSP-600 and SSP-800. they aren't even close. Both have their strengths but the SSP-800 is absolutely better in every aspect. Good luck to you! :T

[beden1]

beden1

What Classe processor do you have?

I have an SSP-800.

[rickc]

All:

I gave Classe a call today and they stated the following:

The CP700 will sound much better then the SSP 800 on 2 channel.

I will have the CP700 in my home for a trial and I will let you know what I hear? Of course I do not have an SSP800 and I am sure that it sounds great. It is hard for me to believe that anything will sound better then my current SSP600, but I will find out.

[beden1]

All:

I gave Classe a call today and they stated the following:

The CP700 will sound much better then the SSP 800 on 2 channel.

I will have the CP700 in my home for a trial and I will let you know what I hear? Of course I do not have an SSP800 and I am sure that it sounds great. It is hard for me to believe that anything will sound better then my current SSP600, but I will find out.

I also have a CP-500 that I am going to now use in another system. I auditioned the SSP-800 at two dealers...one against the CP-500, and one against the CP-700.

I can't say that the CP-700 sounded "much better" than the SSP-800. Against the CP-500, I felt the CP-700 revealed more fine detail, like some of the percussion instruments were more noticeable in various sections. I also sensed that the CP-700 produced more vibrato overall.

The CP-700 against the SSP-800, much of the detail was about equally noticeable through both. The channel separation and sound stage were both outstanding. As I said, I felt the CP-700 was a bit warmer than the SSP-800, but, the SSP-800 had only been hooked up for about a week, and the CP-700 had been there for a couple of years (if this means anything?).

One thing that I have found to be truly exceptional on the SSP-800, is the multi-channel channel playback. It's astounding at times, and catches you off-guard, like where the hell did that sound come from!

If just for stereo, you can't go wrong with the CP-700. If you have interest in multi-channel, I think the SSP-800 is so close to the CP-700 performance, that you get a much better bang-for-the-buck going with the SSP-800.

You may want to audition the CP-700 in your home to get a feel for it's sound, and then try to audition the SSP-800 at the dealer (or at home if they will let you). That way, you'll be able to decide better for yourself.

[rickc]

Beden1:

That is the plan to demo the CP700 at home. I will also try to demo the SSP800.

[alebonau]

I am not at all suprised on classe' response on the your needs for 2ch.

I guess depends in the end how serious you are about 2ch. I have heard demoed the cp700 vs a ssp600 and also some other 2ch pre's and the ssp got kilt for 2ch.

the cp700 is a fine 2ch pre, jsut have a look under its lid and you will see the fine design of a trully balanced dual pre-amp with dual mono topology and separate dedicated power supplies etc. whether its the ssp600 or ssp800 theyre just yoru typical ssp and more aimed at the digital source being fed over hdmi/optical/spdif.

the cp700 would be a beautiful match for the classe cd 502 which its superb analog balanced output. its sources like this that the cp700 would be at its element

[rickc]

I finally got time to hook up the CP700 demo unit to my existing system. I have been listing to it for about 3 hours and this is what I hear!

The bass is much better and more articulate then the SSP 600. This is very surprising to me because I was very happy with the SSP 600 in two channel bypass mode right to my CDP300. I am blown away with how much better this CP700 sounds versus the SSP 600! You may think that I just have happy ears because I am getting ready to spend an additional $6K to $8K with the new cables etc? There is a major improvement in the soundstage, vocals and just overall warmth of sound. I know that most of the Classe users are looking at the SSP800 which I am sure is a great unit. But for me the combination of the SSP 600 and CP700 is the best of both worlds. You could probably get both used for less then a new SSP800? Looking at dedicated pieces of equipment that are meant to do specific things really makes sense to me versus having an all in one box. I can also add a turntable to my system down the road for another upgrade?

Most early adaptors of the SSP 600 will take a bath if they try to sell their SSP 600. I see them all over the place for about $2,500 to $3,000? I would just keep it and add a great preamp like the CP700.

One other comment that I would like to make is that the Transparent MM2 cables have a noticeable improvement over the older version as well.

It looks like this trial CP700 unit will be staying in my system. I will also get a 5 year warranty included from my dealer even though this is a demo unit etc. I thought about brining in the new AYRE preamp, but nothing looks as good as all Classe gear!

From a video perspective I am not interested is going with blue ray! I feel that the blue ray format will fizzle out because the improvements are not that substantial versus a typical DVD. When I discussed this with my dealer he agreed. If you have a projection system you will probably notice the video improvement. I can’t believe that the video will be any type of improvement over my CDP300 and elite monitor? Just my .02 cents.

[sikoniko]

I finally got time to hook up the CP700 demo unit to my existing system. I have been listing to it for about 3 hours and this is what I hear!

The bass is much better and more articulate then the SSP 600. This is very surprising to me because I was very happy with the SSP 600 in two channel bypass mode right to my CDP300. I am blown away with how much better this CP700 sounds versus the SSP 600! You may think that I just have happy ears because I am getting ready to spend an additional $6K to $8K with the new cables etc? There is a major improvement in the soundstage, vocals and just overall warmth of sound. I know that most of the Classe users are looking at the SSP800 which I am sure is a great unit. But for me the combination of the SSP 600 and CP700 is the best of both worlds. You could probably get both used for less then a new SSP800? Looking at dedicated pieces of equipment that are meant to do specific things really makes sense to me versus having an all in one box. I can also add a turntable to my system down the road for another upgrade?

Most early adaptors of the SSP 600 will take a bath if they try to sell their SSP 600. I see them all over the place for about $2,500 to $3,000? I would just keep it and add a great preamp like the CP700.

One other comment that I would like to make is that the Transparent MM2 cables have a noticeable improvement over the older version as well.

It looks like this trial CP700 unit will be staying in my system. I will also get a 5 year warranty included from my dealer even though this is a demo unit etc. I thought about brining in the new AYRE preamp, but nothing looks as good as all Classe gear!

Glad you're happy with your decision. Ultimately, you are the one that has to live with it, and the CP700 is a fine piece. :T

From a video perspective I am not interested is going with blue ray! I feel that the blue ray format will fizzle out because the improvements are not that substantial versus a typical DVD. When I discussed this with my dealer he agreed. If you have a projection system you will probably notice the video improvement. I can’t believe that the video will be any type of improvement over my CDP300 and elite monitor? Just my .02 cents.

I'm curious to know more on how you came to this conclusion. Is this based solely on conversation with your dealer? Would you mind sharing with us what movies you compared? What the hardware was your compared it on? whether you've brought anything home to compare in your own environment? and video aside, how you came to the conclusion that lossy DVD audio is equivelant to loss-less Blu-ray audio? I get the impression that you had a conversation with your dealer and closed the door on it based on that conversation. Please share your experience.

[KahunaCanuck]

I think you need to demo a bluray player on your Elite, seriously, it is crazy how much 3dish depth you will see...regardless, enjoy your system! :^x

[alebonau]

I finally got time to hook up the CP700 demo unit to my existing system. I have been listing to it for about 3 hours and this is what I hear!

The bass is much better and more articulate then the SSP 600. This is very surprising to me because I was very happy with the SSP 600 in two channel bypass mode right to my CDP300. I am blown away with how much better this CP700 sounds versus the SSP 600! You may think that I just have happy ears because I am getting ready to spend an additional $6K to $8K with the new cables etc? There is a major improvement in the soundstage, vocals and just overall warmth of sound. I know that most of the Classe users are looking at the SSP800 which I am sure is a great unit. But for me the combination of the SSP 600 and CP700 is the best of both worlds. You could probably get both used for less then a new SSP800? Looking at dedicated pieces of equipment that are meant to do specific things really makes sense to me versus having an all in one box. I can also add a turntable to my system down the road for another upgrade?

Most early adaptors of the SSP 600 will take a bath if they try to sell their SSP 600. I see them all over the place for about $2,500 to $3,000? I would just keep it and add a great preamp like the CP700.

One other comment that I would like to make is that the Transparent MM2 cables have a noticeable improvement over the older version as well.

It looks like this trial CP700 unit will be staying in my system. I will also get a 5 year warranty included from my dealer even though this is a demo unit etc. I thought about brining in the new AYRE preamp, but nothing looks as good as all Classe gear!

From a video perspective I am not interested is going with blue ray! I feel that the blue ray format will fizzle out because the improvements are not that substantial versus a typical DVD. When I discussed this with my dealer he agreed. If you have a projection system you will probably notice the video improvement. I can’t believe that the video will be any type of improvement over my CDP300 and elite monitor? Just my .02 cents.

good on you rick for comparing as you have to come to your conclusions, only way to go ! my cousin and I did the same and pretty much foudn similar the cp700 definitely worth it for the benefit it brings.

it is not unusual what your doing either with adding a dedicated 2ch analog pre to benefit the analog side, many including myself do the same. the cp700 analog pre too is a superb piece and something that will bring benefit for many years to come. 2ch gear jsut doesnt date the way av gear does. and gives you the very best of both worlds as you say

yep no kidding on 'having a bath' on best people will pay on an ssp600 these days ! my cousin cant beleive it especially since its only been what not even 2 years he's owned the thing. even his dealer doesnt want to know about it ! :E

ps as the others have suggested do check out the blu-ray players, with an av pre like the ssp600 look to a player with good quality multichannel analog outputs. the likes of pioneer elite lx91 or sony bdp s5000es are superb this way. these will do a superb job PQ wise with your pio elite plasma and sound qualiy wise goign over analog will make up in some way for your ssp600 not having hdmi or hdaudio decoding capablity

[sikoniko]

ps as the others have suggested do check out the blu-ray players, with an av pre like the ssp600 look to a player with good quality multichannel analog outputs. the likes of pioneer elite lx91 or sony bdp s5000es are superb this way. these will do a superb job PQ wise with your pio elite plasma and sound qualiy wise goign over analog will make up in some way for your ssp600 not having hdmi or hdaudio decoding capablity

If you go this route, i'd highly recommend getting the velodyne SMS-1. The -10db bass on analog will ruin the experience IMO. The SMS-1 will help with this issue, and give you some room-eq.

[Nolan B]

If you go this route, i'd highly recommend getting the velodyne SMS-1. The -10db bass on analog will ruin the experience IMO. The SMS-1 will help with this issue, and give you some room-eq.

You are sure this effects every player? Seems like if it was a known issue it would be an easy one to fix at the source.

[sikoniko]

You are sure this effects every player? Seems like if it was a known issue it would be an easy one to fix at the source.

were it an issue, they might. however, since it is according to design, they won't.

[Nolan B]

were it an issue, they might. however, since it is according to design, they won't.

So you are saying there is a -10db for all bD players when using analog and its due to the audio codec and not the player, but this does not persist with a PM signal over HDMI? Or does it happen in both cases, but with PCM you are simply able to correct it easier with a processor.

[sikoniko]

So you are saying there is a -10db for all bD players when using analog and its due to the audio codec and not the player, but this does not persist with a PM signal over HDMI? Or does it happen in both cases, but with PCM you are simply able to correct it easier with a processor.

bd-players, sacd players, dvd-a players and hddvd players alike. The lossless formats all are a derivative of meridians loss-less format. I don't believe it is an issue with hdmi as the processor is doing the levels and bass management and not the source.

[alebonau]

So you are saying there is a -10db for all bD players when using analog and its due to the audio codec and not the player, but this does not persist with a PM signal over HDMI? Or does it happen in both cases, but with PCM you are simply able to correct it easier with a processor.

Its related to mch analog, and needs to be done for SACD/DVDA/HD-DVD or BD player if going over mch analog.

you simply boost the lfe in either player or amp. some avr's/avps eg denons allow for a global lfe boost 10db or 15db for multichannel analog for jsut this purpose. otherwise you just apply the boost in the player if yoru avr/avp is not capable. something I have done in the past for various sacd/DVDA players, two hd-dvd and two BD players that have given a go over mch analog.

you dont need a velo sms-1 to acheive this.

sure if you just want to get one :B go for it :T I've got the sms built in my velo DD and can tell you it is a very valuable tool for integrating a sub into your room and system. but not something particularly needed or required to get around lfe boost required if using multichannel analog.

the main issue usually with mch analog tends to be pretty average mch analog stages, dacs and power supplies and pretty crap bass management in players. this situation has improved remarkably with 4 BD players in the pio lx91/09fd, sony bdp5000es and the denon 3800/marantz 8002 pair and you'll see people now acheiving very good result utilising mch especially if you have a legacy pre-pro without HDMI or hd audio capablity

[style]

Hi rickc,

The CP700 is not better vs. a SSP800. in 2ch. they are very similar.
Classe Switzerland say me that the SSP800 is better as the CP700.

don't maksense change the CDP300 with a CDP202...you have the same resultat.....

well you will a cd700. Ok, but how do you go connect your ampli , cable in the system every music piece??????

a dedicat system only for the 2 channel or go with the ssp800 and a EXTernal DAC like Médéa (with a CD Weiss) or a Dcs Puccini with the clock's....

the channel in the Classe don't are sequential (like Krell) and this give you/ make you say a little uhmm: I dont' be happy with the 2 ch. sound....but
Classe is a great company and in the 2 ch. have a lot of experience...

If you like really a 2 channel system with the $15k. go with a PassLabs XP10 preampli and a pura ampli A (XA30.5) -> 2x 30watt over the paper but your 802d fly. the player cdp300 connect on this dreams combo and go.
lNever listen PassLabs??

greetings from Switzerland
Omar

[sikoniko]

Its related to mch analog, and needs to be done for SACD/DVDA/HD-DVD or BD player if going over mch analog.

you simply boost the lfe in either player or amp. some avr's/avps eg denons allow for a global lfe boost 10db or 15db for multichannel analog for jsut this purpose. otherwise you just apply the boost in the player if yoru avr/avp is not capable. something I have done in the past for various sacd/DVDA players, two hd-dvd and two BD players that have given a go over mch analog.

you dont need a velo sms-1 to acheive this.

sure if you just want to get one :B go for it :T I've got the sms built in my velo DD and can tell you it is a very valuable tool for integrating a sub into your room and system. but not something particularly needed or required to get around lfe boost required if using multichannel analog.

the main issue usually with mch analog tends to be pretty average mch analog stages, dacs and power supplies and pretty crap bass management in players. this situation has improved remarkably with 4 BD players in the pio lx91/09fd, sony bdp5000es and the denon 3800/marantz 8002 pair and you'll see people now acheiving very good result utilising mch especially if you have a legacy pre-pro without HDMI or hd audio capablity

Its been a while since I've messed with this. thanks for clearing it up. The problem I had with mine was that I wasn't able to boost the lfe +10, as the BM in the source wasn't flexible enough (toshiba xa2 hddvd player) - I believe my sound meter put it at a +5 or so, and it was only capable of going to +10, or something like that. I used the multiple configurations in the SSP-600 to get around it, but to be honest, I didn't care for it. I sorta felt like something was lost (perhaps distortion was added), as I preferred to go back to optical (which the xa-2 converted everything at dts 1.5mb vs the 640k of others) as it felt more natural.

I had read that a lot of people who had the sms-1 used it to get around this with great success. perhaps I should have explained better in my previous post.

btw, the ssp-800 is also capable of a +10 lfe boost on mch inputs. such needs were not there when the ssp-600 was built, and apparently since its a true bypass, was not something they could add later through software, or so I was told.

[alebonau]

Its been a while since I've messed with this. thanks for clearing it up. The problem I had with mine was that I wasn't able to boost the lfe +10, as the BM in the source wasn't flexible enough (toshiba xa2 hddvd player) - I believe my sound meter put it at a +5 or so, and it was only capable of going to +10, or something like that. I used the multiple configurations in the SSP-600 to get around it, but to be honest, I didn't care for it. I sorta felt like something was lost (perhaps distortion was added), as I preferred to go back to optical (which the xa-2 converted everything at dts 1.5mb vs the 640k of others) as it felt more natural.

I had read that a lot of people who had the sms-1 used it to get around this with great success. perhaps I should have explained better in my previous post.

btw, the ssp-800 is also capable of a +10 lfe boost on mch inputs. such needs were not there when the ssp-600 was built, and apparently since its a true bypass, was not something they could add later through software, or so I was told.

hi siko, I had the tosh xa1, xa2/xe1 myself that I hooked via mch analog. Really nice players, but unfortunately with these though better than your average hd-dvd/BD player of the time for analog, really they were a little limited in their onboard bass management and setup. Like yourself I felt something missing, tried applying post processing to atleast get the setup right but in the end reverted to hooking up via coax/spdif till getting hdmi capablity.

In the BD players, The Sony bdp s1e and pio lx71 (95hd) players I owned were actually a lot better over analog. But here again still a little limited in bass management, and their analog stage and dacs power supplies etc probably in the end though a mile better than your average BD player still no better than your average budget cd spinner I suspect. And via HDMI is how I found these to be the best

these days sony, pio denon and marantz have made a real effort with analog capability. Building in decent dacs, analog stages and power supplies for their players. Pio has certainly gone all out with their flagship lx91/09fd. the denon marantz 3800/8002 dacs and processing stages are as good as what you get in their mid range avrs. And the sony 5000es certainly though not to the level of the 9000es sacd player I own, theyve certainly seem to have gone a long way to get the best from it. And people these days have been getting pretty good results using these players with their non hdmi avrs/avrs.

For many people with good quality legacy avrs/avps that they dont necessarily want to get rid of due to lack of hdmi/hd audio capablity, certainly a viable option I think to get pretty decent results for audio going over mch analog from one of these players

[SwainDtV]

btw, the ssp-800 is also capable of a +10 lfe boost on mch inputs. such needs were not there when the ssp-600 was built, and apparently since its a true bypass, was not something they could add later through software, or so I was told.

Sikoniko,

Can you please explain how to add +10dB to the subwoofer in combination with SSP800's 7.1 analog input?

I believe the bypass doesn't allow levels other than 0dB across the channels.

As soon as the SSP800 upgrade arrives, I'll be experimenting with the Pio LX91 analog outs, PCM via HDMI and HDMI bit stream decoding. It would be easier to correct the +10dB LFE channel on the SSP800 than to config an separate preset on my Velodyne DD15.

Ab

[sikoniko]

Sikoniko,

Can you please explain how to add +10dB to the subwoofer in combination with SSP800's 7.1 analog input?

I believe the bypass doesn't allow levels other than 0dB across the channels.

As soon as the SSP800 upgrade arrives, I'll be experimenting with the Pio LX91 analog outs, PCM via HDMI and HDMI bit stream decoding. It would be easier to correct the +10dB LFE channel on the SSP800 than to config an separate preset on my Velodyne DD15.

Ab

I was just looking through the manual, since I am at work, and I may have mis-read it. ops:

level trims - provides Left/Right Balance, Centre, Surround, Rear,
Subwoofer, and Aux1/2 level adjustments. As an example, you might want
to raise the level of the Centre channel speaker by 2 or 3 db if the dialog
in a particular movie is diffi cult to understand. In addition to the normal
subwoofer trims, two additional buttons (LFE 0dB, and LFE -10dB) off er
an extra -10dB of trim. You may find certain older DTS Music discs with
the LFE channel recorded 10dB higher than normal. Th e LFE -10dB
button allows you to quickly adjust for this scenario.

I'll look at it again when I get home tonight.

[SwainDtV]

I was just looking through the manual, since I am at work, and I may have mis-read it. ops:

I just got home and selected the input associated with the 7.1 analog input. In controls, the trim button is inactive. I believe the events for -10dB and +10dB wont work either.

[style]

Hi SwainDtV,

Whit the 7.1 and analog cabling is attaced at the bypass. whitout the bypass dont' work.

= you don't can have a +10dB with the analog (for the sub) and 7.1 analog.



Omar

[RebelMan]

I have to step away for now but I have some comments that are definitely in order here. For now know this, the 2CH CP-700 will be replaced with technology borrowed from the MCH SSP-800. :W

[rickc]

Rebelman

I made the move and purchased a demo CP700. Sometimes you have to make a choice with what makes the best sense for your own system and budget. I am very happy with my decision and I still believe that an all in one SSP800 will do great things with surround sound, and I still have my SSP600 for that. But the CP700 blows the SSP 600 out of the water when you compare it for 2 channel sound.

In a few years you will end up with the same situation that I had with my SSP600 on your SSP800. (Look at audiogone.. today you can buy a SSP 800 for $6K and it has only been on the market for 5 months? Thats a $2K hit?) It will dramatically drop in price for the next best surround sound processor? If you are interested in both 2 channel and surround sound, I believe that more folks should do what I did and use their SSP in the SSP mode for the best possible 2 channel sound. ( a two channel preamp will also hold its value for a longer period of time versus a SSP model) I am not sure that many users on this site understand how the SSP mode works? It bypasses your SSP and your amps actual plug into the preamp versus the surround sound processor. You get the best of both worlds even when you are watching movies etc.

I am very happy having all Classe equipment and for me this was the best move. I did not take the time to demo a SSP800, so I guess I will never know for sure? I have no issues with my SSP 600 for movies, but it is hard for me to believe that an all in one box without a separate power supply will sound better then the CP700. The Classe engineers that I discussed this with agreed. Give them a call. It may take a few tries to get them to return your calls, but once you discuss this topic, I am confident that they will agree about getting the best in 2 channel is to invest in a CP700.

[sikoniko]

Rebelman

I made the move and purchased a demo CP700. Sometimes you have to make a choice with what makes the best sense for your own system and budget. I am very happy with my decision and I still believe that an all in one SSP800 will do great things with surround sound, and I still have my SSP600 for that. But the CP700 blows the SSP 600 out of the water when you compare it for 2 channel sound.

In a few years you will end up with the same situation that I had with my SSP600 on your SSP800. (Look at audiogone.. today you can buy a SSP 800 for $6K and it has only been on the market for 5 months? Thats a $2K hit?) It will dramatically drop in price for the next best surround sound processor? If you are interested in both 2 channel and surround sound, I believe that more folks should do what I did and use their SSP in the SSP mode for the best possible 2 channel sound. ( a two channel preamp will also hold its value for a longer period of time versus a SSP model) I am not sure that many users on this site understand how the SSP mode works? It bypasses your SSP and your amps actual plug into the preamp versus the surround sound processor. You get the best of both worlds even when you are watching movies etc.

I am very happy having all Classe equipment and for me this was the best move. I did not take the time to demo a SSP800, so I guess I will never know for sure? I have no issues with my SSP 600 for movies, but it is hard for me to believe that an all in one box without a separate power supply will sound better then the CP700. The Classe engineers that I discussed this with agreed. Give them a call. It may take a few tries to get them to return your calls, but once you discuss this topic, I am confident that they will agree about getting the best in 2 channel is to invest in a CP700.

I'm anxiously awaiting Rebelman's reply, as he did sell his CP-700 in favor of the SSP-800 and has never looked back.

[1oldguy]

Yes ....Very interested in this as well.

[alebonau]

Rebelman

I made the move and purchased a demo CP700. Sometimes you have to make a choice with what makes the best sense for your own system and budget. I am very happy with my decision and I still believe that an all in one SSP800 will do great things with surround sound, and I still have my SSP600 for that. But the CP700 blows the SSP 600 out of the water when you compare it for 2 channel sound.

In a few years you will end up with the same situation that I had with my SSP600 on your SSP800. (Look at audiogone.. today you can buy a SSP 800 for $6K and it has only been on the market for 5 months? Thats a $2K hit?) It will dramatically drop in price for the next best surround sound processor? If you are interested in both 2 channel and surround sound, I believe that more folks should do what I did and use their SSP in the SSP mode for the best possible 2 channel sound. ( a two channel preamp will also hold its value for a longer period of time versus a SSP model) I am not sure that many users on this site understand how the SSP mode works? It bypasses your SSP and your amps actual plug into the preamp versus the surround sound processor. You get the best of both worlds even when you are watching movies etc.

I am very happy having all Classe equipment and for me this was the best move. I did not take the time to demo a SSP800, so I guess I will never know for sure? I have no issues with my SSP 600 for movies, but it is hard for me to believe that an all in one box without a separate power supply will sound better then the CP700. The Classe engineers that I discussed this with agreed. Give them a call. It may take a few tries to get them to return your calls, but once you discuss this topic, I am confident that they will agree about getting the best in 2 channel is to invest in a CP700.

you can only make your choices based on your means and the demoes you have done to make a purchasing decision. what anyone else thinks you should do or their opinion of what is best for you to purchase really not relevant

in the demoing I have done of dedicated pure analog gear vs digital av/ht gear for 2ch I can personally totally understand your decision. Something you will enjoy I have no doubt for many years to come

[RebelMan]

I made the move and purchased a demo CP700. Sometimes you have to make a choice with what makes the best sense for your own system and budget. I am very happy with my decision…

As you should be. The CP-700 sounds terrific. Congrats! :T

…and I still believe that an all in one SSP800 will do great things with surround sound, and I still have my SSP600 for that. But the CP700 blows the SSP 600 out of the water when you compare it for 2 channel sound.

The CP-700 certainly does not blow the SSP-600 out of the water but it is a step up in the right direction. I take descriptions such as this with a little grain of salt. I am almost certain that if you did not carry a metering instrument with you into the demo room that the evaluation is already flawed. It takes considerable time to set up a controlled demo that most people are just not comfortable doing in a showroom where the pressures abound from the numerous interferences and distractions. Or they just don’t have the time or patience to conduct one. It is becoming ever more difficult to execute demos in a family space such as the comfort of our homes so unfortunately we are at the mercy of the dealer to be willing to work with us. Most of the time they don’t have the time to spend or the interest, sad to say. But there are exceptions and in these cases it can take several hours to set things up for a fair listen. I generally schedule my appointments with the dealer when the store is not so busy and when I can be completely alone. This is not so easy to do but dealers that didn’t have an equipment check out policy has been fairly accommodating in these cases.

In a few years you will end up with the same situation that I had with my SSP600 on your SSP800. (Look at audiogone.. today you can buy a SSP 800 for $6K and it has only been on the market for 5 months? Thats a $2K hit?) It will dramatically drop in price for the next best surround sound processor? If you are interested in both 2 channel and surround sound, I believe that more folks should do what I did and use their SSP in the SSP mode for the best possible 2 channel sound. ( a two channel preamp will also hold its value for a longer period of time versus a SSP model) I am not sure that many users on this site understand how the SSP mode works? It bypasses your SSP and your amps actual plug into the preamp versus the surround sound processor. You get the best of both worlds even when you are watching movies etc.

It’s an unfortunate truth and an unfortunate mindset that is perpetuated. Stereo by definition means “three dimensional”. If the image that we are to perceive can be constructed with two, three or even five (front-end) channels (yes folks I said FIVE channels in front) then how could one automatically assume to preclude that two is better for the job?

Logically speaking the five channel rig should sound best because it has some inherent advantages of creating a 3D soundscape. People are too quick to dismiss a multichannel pre-amplifier (which the SSP-800 is) on the basis that it can’t sound better because it costs fewer dollars per channel to build than a dedicated two channel pre-amplifier. But this is the wrong perception to make especially in the case of the CP-700 and the SSP-800. The technology and engineering that went into the SSP-800 has the advantage of time discovery and economies of scale. What was capable with the SSP-800 today wasn’t possible with the CP-700 when it was built. Engineers know more now than they did then and the high performance parts needed to tackle the project weren’t available back then as they are now.

As for the SSP mode of the CP-700 I didn’t care for it and discontinued its use. My advice would be to skip it unless you don’t have any other choice or don’t mind sacrificing a little unity-gain bleed through (noise) that occurs with the LR channels. It’s not a big deal, really pretty minor, but bypassing the CP-700 altogether for 5.1 sources is better as it circumvents the little noise that pollutes the signal otherwise. This is one spot where the SSP-800 delivers in spades and trumps the SSP-700 because it can provide uncompromising audio quality through more than two signals.

I am very happy having all Classe equipment and for me this was the best move. I did not take the time to demo a SSP800, so I guess I will never know for sure? I have no issues with my SSP 600 for movies, but it is hard for me to believe that an all in one box without a separate power supply will sound better then the CP700. The Classe engineers that I discussed this with agreed. Give them a call. It may take a few tries to get them to return your calls, but once you discuss this topic, I am confident that they will agree about getting the best in 2 channel is to invest in a CP700.

Up to this point I made no mention to the audio benefits that the SSP-800 has over the CP-700 for 2CH sources. I’ll get to that later on as there is much to go over and no - it’s not a slam dunk either ( stay tuned ). However, for now I can tell you that the decisions Classe’ had to make with regard to the external power supply of the CP-700 introduced as many challenges as it addressed and very little of that had to do with the impact the power supply circuitry had on audio quality. If it would have been possible to make the CP-700 with the power supply internal they would have. Today’s state-of-the-art SSP-800 makes that possible.