Humidity; protecting the components

[JoeTheLion]

Hi there,

I live in a very humid environment. What's the best way to protect the cables, inputs and inside components of the equipment and accessories against corrosion and colorations ?

A professional told it would be a good idea to cover the grills, ventilation holes on the amplifier while not using with nylon, would that be a good idea ?

Many thanks

[GregLett]

You should get a Dehumidfire, or if the room has AC that would also pull the humidity
Out.

[Glen B]

I would get a dehumidifier even if there is AC. You may not run the AC all the time and when its off, the humidity will rise. A dehumidifier will maintain a set humidity level 24/7.

[Classe4me]

Hi there,

I live in a very humid environment. What's the best way to protect the cables, inputs and inside components of the equipment and accessories against corrosion and colorations ?

A professional told it would be a good idea to cover the grills, ventilation holes on the amplifier while not using with nylon, would that be a good idea ?

Many thanks

JTL, Being in the HVAC business I am always more than willing to comment on humidity or other comfort issues.

It would be of interest to know where you live and what the normal humidity conditions are in your part of the world. I live in KY and have very low humidity in the winter and very high humidity in the summer.

Your first and really only proper line of defense against humidity in my humble opinion should be accomplished by your air conditioning system. I am pretty much an anti-dehumidifier kind of guy. Reason being is a dehumidifier is not much more than an air conditioner that you leave inside of your house so instead of transferring the heat that it absorbs outdoors it merely places it back into your home, requiring your air conditioning to work even more. Dehumidifiers use electricity, and quite a bit of it. A lot of dehumidifiers use a large catch basin that allows the water to lay in and can create mold and/or algae problems and still allows that moisture to evaporate back into your air.

On the other hand, a proper sized air conditioning system that has a lot of run time will work on a consistent basis will be the best and only true solution to humidity control. The real definition of air conditioning is just that, conditioning the air. Conditioning would entail dehumidification first and foremost because if you get the humidity removed from the air then temperature control becomes so much easier. If one will always keep in mind that air conditioning isn't putting cold air into the environment, but rather it is removing it and transferring it to the outside of the area. Think about it, when you walk past your outdoor condensing unit in the summer when the A/C is running you feel all of that heat coming off of the unit. That heat is the heat that is being absorbed by the evaporator coil from inside as the refrigerant runs through the coil, the blower motor pulls the warm, moist, and humid air across the cold coil, absorbing the heat, and condensing the moisture out of the air like a tall cold glass of ice water gets all wet and sits in a puddle of water in a hot summer day while sitting on the countertop. That's because the air is hot and humid, and the glass is ice cold. As the warm, moist air moves across that ice cold glass then it condenses that moisture out of the air. This is what your evaporator coil is designed to do. Envision a tall glass of tap water on the counter...it's going to be bone dry and not even so much as a ring. The colder the coil, the more moisture the system will remove. The more run time on the A/C unit, the more humidity you will remove. This is why it's essential to not oversize the size of the system which is the the biggest mistake that most people make. They think that bigger is better. The bigger the unit, the less it will have to run, the less work it has to do, and it will put out much more cold air. WRONG, WRONG, AND WRONG!!!!! The oversized unit pulls the heat out of the home too quickly, meeting the set point of the thermostat, shutting the system off, so therefore no running means no dehumidifying, and no removal of heat out of the house, and no consistent air circulation. It also means that by starting and stopping frequently (short cycling), that you will use more electricity, place more wear and tear on the equipment, and have premature equipment failure.

Bottom line is, if the A/C isn't running, it's not doing anything whatsoever for you. The milder the temperature outside, the less run time you will have which makes for even more problems.

If done properly, a load calculation is run to determine the proper size needed on the extreme temperature days in order to keep your home cool and comfortable. The problem with this is we only need the maximum capacity a couple of percent of the time. The rest of the time we are oversized and therefore prone to short cycling anyway.

This is where 2-stage air conditioners and heat pumps shine and also where variable speed air handlers or furnaces excel. They run at multiple fan speeds instead of being just on or off. Variable speed is the most important part of a system in my opinion. It's the gift that just keeps on giving. It controls the fan speed, in turn controlling the coil temperature. The coil gets much colder in the summer and removes 4 to 8 times more humidity than a standard air handler/furnace. In the winter on a heat pump it allows the same coil to get much warmer, providing much warmer start up, much warmer vent temperatures, and therefore keeps the auxiliary resistance heaters from kicking on prematurely, resulting in much less energy consumption and much higher level of efficiency. You also leave the fan in the on position instead of automatic. When there is no call for A/C or heat, the fan runs at approximately 25% just to circulate the air keeping the ductwork tempered and evening out temperatures. When the T-stat calls for cooling then the fan ramps up to about 50% for about 2 minutes to allow the coil to get "ice cold." Once it reaches optimum temperature then it ramps up to about 80% which is where the magic happens. This is where your dehumidification occurs and the unit works at it's most efficent level. If the temperature demand is not met within about 8 minutes it will take the fan up to the full 100% to keep the coil from freezing. In the winter is serves to keep the heat that the heat pump captures outdoors and transfers indoors much warmer and more comfortable. The variable speed air handlers/furnaces running 24/7 use about 1/8th of the electricity of a standard A/H or furnace because you are going from a 120 volt A/C electric motor that you are starting and stopping to a 24 volt DV motor that you are just ramping up and down.

I hope the HVAC seminar helps answer some of your questions.

[planitismetal]

You should get a Dehumidfire, or if the room has AC that would also pull the humidity
Out.

You always have to pay attention with AC because it creates static electricity especcialy when windows are closed!!!

[GregLett]

What if you want to open your windows and not run the AC?
Sometimes in a basement you don't necessarily want the ac on
but you do wan to lower the humidity.

[wettou]

A professional told it would be a good idea to cover the grills, ventilation holes on the amplifier while not using with nylon, would that be a good idea ? Many thanks

That is wild? just put them in an air conditioned room :T We have tons of humidity here and AC works great

[Classe4me]

What if you want to open your windows and not run the AC?
Sometimes in a basement you don't necessarily want the ac on
but you do wan to lower the humidity.

Considering a dehumidifier is essentially an air conditioner with a compressor, a condenser, an evaporator coil and utilizes refrigerant that makes the evap coil cold so that when the moist air passes over the cold coil it wrings the water out of the air. The problem that I have with it is that is releases the heat back into the air and there is already an inherent problem with equipment generating heat. In colder or winter weather there usually isn't an issue with humidity unless the equipment is located in a basement that allows a lot of ground water to accumulate around the foundation and permeate through the walls into the inside of the home. If this is the case then just keeping your equipment protected should be the least of your worries and you need to be concerned with mold spores. What you should do is figure out the source of the excessive humidity and work on fixing that problem.

I am very particular with putting low wall air returns in the basement so the HVAV equipment can pull the heat down to the floor instead of allowing it all to rise to the upper level(s). It also "recycles" all of the cool air that is naturally going to drop to the basement, mixing it with the rest of the air throughout the house, and "conditioning" all of the air in the entire house.

As for opening windows, this is a touchy subject that I go round and round with my wife over. Or I should say I used to. Why would you want to have a properly designed and sized HVAC system that works all day to remove the humidity, and obviously at the same time it is removing the heat out of the house as well. Having proper equipment will do a superior job or humidity removal and lower your relative humidity down to a very comfortable range which allows you to raise your thermostat and have the same level of comfort because now you don't have that "heat index" inside of your house.

Example here in Kentucky: April day, 82 to 84 degrees, 30 to 35% humidity, outside all day loving life. Fast forward to July or August, that same 82 or 84 degrees feels like it's 100 and you can't walk 20 feet without sweat dripping off of your brow and you want to go back inside.

So you let the A/C run all day to pull the humidity out of the house and then you watch the weather forecast and they tell you that the temperature is going to drop to 68 degrees that night. People run for the windows and open them to "save money" by not running the A/C.

Even though it might be cool enough outside to where you don't need the cooling portion, you don't want that humidity or mugginess, otherwise you are laying there uncomfortable, tugging at yourself because you are sticky and can't sleep. If you would have kept the windows closed the A/C wouldn't have ran anyway because there was no solar heat gain, or any other source of heat to necessitate the A/C to run and you would have prevented all of that unwanted humidity to come screaming back into the house so the air conditioning can work all day the next day to attempt to remove the humidity again. This typically causes what I label thermostat jockeying and you are so much better off to set it and forget it.

This is the purpose of "air conditioning" not air cooling such as what is achieved with swamp coolers that will actually put humidity into the home.

Air conditioning is just that, it's conditioning the air. I rate humidity removal as the number one mission and purpose of air conditioning, and temperature control secondary. If it was just cooling we were looking for we could buy a 100 pound block of ice and allow a fan to blow over it but you would have a saturated home that would feel like a rain forest.

The colder the ambient temperature, the less moisture the air can hold before it becomes saturated. Now you are dealing with the dew point.

I don't claim to be an expert on any of this, but I do know that if I have the need to get the humidity out of my house I am not going to use something that consumes additional electricity, creates additional heat, and does put some of the moisture back into the inside of the home unless the condensate is run directly outside in lieu of going into a catch pan or a floor drain.

Merely my opinion on how I personally would handle excessive humidity.

Once air conditioning season starts, leave the windows closed until air conditioning season is over. If someone actually thinks that there is fresh air outside and wants to take advantage of that "fresh air" then I recommend going outside and living it up, then coming into a dry, dehumidified house rather than a muggy house that causes you to run you thermostat down to 68 or 70 degrees to make up the difference in the high level of humidity.

My home is very comfortable inside in the summer in the 76 to 78 degree range because of how low my equipment takes my humidity level down to. Any cooler than that it is COLD in here.

[JoeTheLion]

Many thanks everyone, especially Classe4me for the detailed but clear HVAC 101 8O , I really learned a lot from these.

We live in Rio de Janeiro, near the sea, and average humidity here is around 80% daytime and 65-70% during night time. We are on the fourth floor, so no basement issue, but we fight with mould everywhere, all the time.

Normally we have A/C which we turn on during summer months mostly, and not throughout the day, only when it gets very hot. The system we have now is very inefficient, and now that I know, I will consider to replace it with newer, and smaller ones. The only problem with air conditioning is we love and enjoy the breeze and fresh air

So must the problem be solved from the source, i.e. decreasing humidity, or are there other solutions like protective sprays, covering the equipment etc. ?

[Classe4me]

Many thanks everyone, especially Classe4me for the detailed but clear HVAC 101 8O , I really learned a lot from these.

We live in Rio de Janeiro, near the sea, and average humidity here is around 80% daytime and 65-70% during night time. We are on the fourth floor, so no basement issue, but we fight with mould everywhere, all the time.

Normally we have A/C which we turn on during summer months mostly, and not throughout the day, only when it gets very hot. The system we have now is very inefficient, and now that I know, I will consider to replace it with newer, and smaller ones. The only problem with air conditioning is we love and enjoy the breeze and fresh air

So must the problem be solved from the source, i.e. decreasing humidity, or are there other solutions like protective sprays, covering the equipment etc. ?

Joe, to my knowledge there is no product other than perhaps some type of a desiccant that you might be able to place in close proximity to your equipment that will fully protect it. Desiccants are found in the pockets of new leather jackets and inside of other leather goods or products that are humidity or moisture sensitive. I don't use them and don't know much about them so I have to plead ignorance there.

What I can say is that it sounds like you live in an amazing place and one that I would dearly love to live. I am a sun, sand, and ocean kind of guy! It also sounds like you have no way to ever eliminate the humidity source so you will have to be able to control it. That is easily done with today's technology HVAV products.

I appreciate the fact that you enjoy the breezes and fresh air. Unfortunately you just can't have it both ways INSIDE of the home. Keep the inside climate and humidity controlled both day and night and if and when you want to enjoy the breeze and fresh air, go outside on the balcony, deck, patio, lanai, veranda, or whatever you have outside available to you.

It's easy to think you will save money and benefit from running the air in the day and turning it off at night but in the long run you really don't. You battle the humidity during the day and allow it to come back in with a vengeance at night. I can only imagine how muggy and sticky it can get at nights in that environment without the A/C running.

If you were to give me a general idea of the layout of your home of condo, I could give you some ideas and advice. By and far, in applications where it will work, the new inverter technology mini-split units made by Mitsubishi and Fujitsu have extremely high efficiency ratings due to the fact that they don't start and stop all of the time but rather modulate the compressor capacity to exactly what is needed at the time, therefore constantly running and removing humidity and keeping your comfort level very constant and consistent and doing so 24/7. You will save money when all is said and done.

There are a few cases where a dehumidifier is necessary or an only choice but for the most part they are noisy, inefficient with electricity, they generate heat, and can only do so much in a limited area. Running a dehumidifier with windows open will accomplish basically nothing at all except for higher electric bills.

You have to keep that moisture outside, prevent if from coming inside as much as possible, and then getting rid of what does get in. Remember air CONDITIONING, not air cooling.

Key to success, remove humidity, remove the heat out of the home, circulate air, and even out temperatures. Forget about opening and closing windows and thinking you are saving money.

Feel free to PM anytime and I will gladly attempt to give you sound advice.

[wettou]

Many thanks everyone, especially Classe4me for the detailed but clear HVAC 101 8O , I really learned a lot from these.

We live in Rio de Janeiro, near the sea, and average humidity here is around 80% daytime and 65-70% during night time. We are on the fourth floor, so no basement issue, but we fight with mould everywhere, all the time. Normally we have A/C which we turn on during summer months mostly, and not throughout the day, only when it gets very hot. The system we have now is very inefficient, and now that I know, I will consider to replace it with newer, and smaller ones. The only problem with air conditioning is we love and enjoy the breeze and fresh air

So must the problem be solved from the source, i.e. decreasing humidity, or are there other solutions like protective sprays, covering the equipment etc. ?

The best is to build a closet space that is always using air conditioning and have all your gear electronics in it. Then you can have it both ways. Your speakers will still be in your open rooms and won't be protected but the rest of your gear will.

Brazil are you an expat? Nice

[JoeTheLion]

Thanks again Classe4me, and wettou, yes, Brazil is a great place :T

[Classe4me]

Thanks again Classe4me, and wettou, yes, Brazil is a great place :T

You are very welcome. I wish you great luck whatever you choose to do and whenever it may be. I will be more that happy to try to assist you if at all possible.

So tell me, if a person that has never been to Brazil, that loves the water, the beach, and would not be opposed to seeing some gorgeous Brazilian babes, not to mention beautiful scenery in general, where should one go? Naturally the first thing that would come to mind to someone like me that has never been is Rio. I do wonder if it's too much tourist trap, and if there are better choices for a first timer?

Have you ever spent any time in the US? Maybe we can do an exchange occupation program....something like exchange students perhaps? I am SOOOOOO ready for warm and sunny weather. Something on a more permanent basis!

You take care and PM anytime.

[skuzzyb]

We use something in NZ called damp rid. In essence it is a dessicant in a large container that you can put in your closet, on a table, under the bed, wherever. The water is collected in the container and you drain it every now and then. Works pretty well. I use it to tackle high humidity when I do not want to have to run the heat pump/ac as well as to put in my safe which seems to trap a lot of moisture.

skz

[Classe4me]

We use something in NZ called damp rid. In essence it is a dessicant in a large container that you can put in your closet, on a table, under the bed, wherever. The water is collected in the container and you drain it every now and then. Works pretty well. I use it to tackle high humidity when I do not want to have to run the heat pump/ac as well as to put in my safe which seems to trap a lot of moisture.

skz

Excellent suggestion. If you can find any info or send me a link on that I would love to check it out. I had mentioned to him early in the thread about the use of desiccants but did not know of any large sized ones. I am accustomed to the ones that they throw in a box of consumer goods or put in the pockets of new clothes that are moisture sensitive.

I figured it had to be out there, it's just that I have never seen it.

Tom

[skuzzyb]

http://www.damprid.com/

Not sure if it is sold in Brazil but anything can be shipped nowadays... well, almost anything.

skz

[Classe4me]

http://www.damprid.com/

Not sure if it is sold in Brazil but anything can be shipped nowadays... well, almost anything.

skz

SkuzzyB, That was kind of you to look that up and send me the link. They make some really cool products that have some special applications where I can see the need for such a product quite possibly in my business.

I found their online pricing to appear to be reasonable and also notice that it is sold or carried at many retailers, like grocery stores, hardware, stores, building supply stores, and even Wal-Marts and popular discount store chains.

I was really curious to know what the actual material was that they use as the desiccant but never could determine that.

If Joe wants the product, and has any trouble with shipping, I have all of those discount stores and building supply chains available here and would gladly pick up what he wants or needs and ship it to him. He knows his home, the size of the area, and could figure out which would be the best application for his needs, or possibly even which product he would like to try.

Once again, thank for sending that link, I don't think there is anybody here that probably couldn't have a need for some of their products with the exception of maybe James Dean because of living in Arizona. I don't think there is much a humidity issue there except for lack of it. I spent one week in Phoenix on a Trane seminar and my nose felt like somebody had poured Sta-Dri down my nose and had me dried out from head to toe. I think I might have been almost like beef jerky by the time I left.

Gorgeous part of the country and I love the warmth but would have to figure out a way to keep my insides hydrated. Might have to put myself in bubble with humidifier!

Have a great day!

[JoeTheLion]

So tell me, if a person that has never been to Brazil, that loves the water, the beach, and would not be opposed to seeing some gorgeous Brazilian babes, not to mention beautiful scenery in general, where should one go? Naturally the first thing that would come to mind to someone like me that has never been is Rio. I do wonder if it's too much tourist trap, and if there are better choices for a first timer?

That would be Rio really. I know there are other places in Brazil that are very beautiful as well, but at least for the first time, Rio is a great place to visit, especially while you can enjoy the good USD/BRL rate !