No Classe bashing, but a critical note...

[Ravian]

Hi,

Like the title of this thread indicates, I first and foremost want to make it absolutely clear that I don't intend to bash Classe in any way, but I do have a critical note that never seems to pop up online.

It seems like no one was raising an eyebrow when the SSP800 was introduced. I'm not talking about people that just bought their first, but about the folks that already owned an SSP600. Anyone owning a full stack of the Delta series (or at least an SSP600 and CDP300) knows what I am talking about.

The SSP600 works with Full-HD video internally, so does the CDP300 after upscaling the DVD video signal. Or should I rather say, DID. Since the DVD Authority FORCED Classe to switch off Full HD via the component output in the CDP300, it rendered the SSP600 pretty useless. There was no way one could use the SSP600 as a central audio/video switch, because the only way to get Full HD output from the CDP300 is to use the HDMI output. Practically that means you'd have to switch the channel on your Plasma TV and on the SSP600 (for audio) when you got multiple sources... That's pretty .....ed up. Here you are, left with a multi-kilobuck piece of gear that can't even do what it's supposed to do... simplify use and offer state of the art performance.

Now, I don't even blame Classe for the above. I even can't, because the DVD Authority states that it's prohibited to output any HD content via analog connections (EVEN when it's upscaled from inferior DVD quality signal, which is just plain old interpolation and no matter how good you do that, it can't compare to a true HD signal). So it was really out of their hands. I can't even blame them for not having put HDMI inputs on their SSP600, although the CDP300 has a HDMI output so they should have seen it coming. Possibly the design path for the SSP600 started earlier than for the CDP300, I don't know nor remember.

What I can and will blame Classe for is that they only seem to focus on supporting customers with bug fixes and minor enhancements AFTER a product has come to market, rather than taking that into account DURING product development. There is no other piece of equipment in your complete system that deserves that kind of attention more than your A/V processor.
Of course no one can foresee everything in the future, but when you build your equipment in a modular way, both in hardware as in software, you make sure that you can meet this demand by the customer. With this level of engineering, there's plenty of room to make a modular design perform at the highest possible level.

Of course you guessed it by now: the SSP600 can NOT be upgraded to the SSP800 in ANY shape or form. Period. Is this acceptable for anyone that spends this amount of money? No, of course it isn't! It would have made a lot more sense if existing customers would have gotten the opportunity to swap one or more boards of their SSP600 to upgrade it to an SSP800, possibly only for registered first-owners.

I work for a company that produces it's own high performance hardware and software and we didn't have to change anything to the base-board for years until there was a new standard for interfacing to that base-board. The customer only needed to upgrade the base-board, but could re-use the same modules that stuck onto them. New techniques, standards or changes in interfaces to other equipment only required new modules or new firmware for existing modules, which contributed to a high level of flexibility. Did that hurt our business... nope. It only increased our business! I suggest Classe follow that example (we're not the only ones) and try to avoid this kind of thing in the future...

As I said before, the rest of the Classe stuff performs flawlessly, is exquistly built and oozes with dedication of the people who make it. However, sometimes it's good to reflect on what went wrong. I know, I've been there...

Enjoy the rest of the movie! :-)

[Classe4me]

You'll have to pardon my ignorance because I am somewhat challenged by this new hobby that I have taken a liking to about a year and a half ago, so I am still very much into the learning stage.

When you state that Classe was forced to "switch off" the full HD on the CDP-300 are you making reference to one of the very first software/firmware updates that Classe came out with for that particular source player? I would have to go back on Classe's website and take a look at the updates but I do remember reading something that mentioned that there was a particular feature that the update would disable to comply with copyright protection. Is this possibly what you are referring to? If so, if a person like myself never did that update, replaced that unit with a CPD-502, and stuck the CDP-300 in the closet, got it back out, hooked it back up to my SSP-600, that I would have the "full HD" capability with my SSP-600?

I really need you to elaborate on what you are referring to when you say "full HD" and also why one would need to "change channels on their plasma panel and their SSP-600. Maybe you are referring to changing inputs and sources??

Correct me if I am wrong, but analog or component outputs will only produce a signal as high as 720p or 1080i. Is this right or wrong? I know (at least I think I do!) that only HDMI has the ability to produce a true 1080p output. Obviously our standard DVDs are only as good as the source component that can upconvert the signal to the highest possible standard. Can we recognize this as a true 1080p? I do know that when I queue up my CDP (either one) and my Blu-ray at the exact same time and switch back and forth is is very difficult to distinguish one from the other at my seating position which is 6.8 miles from.....no, just kidding there.... about 12 or 13 feet back from a 60" Pioneer Elite.

Don't misinterpret my reply/inquiry as anything other than a fact finding mission for myself and in no way am I challenging what you are saying in the least. What I am wanting to know is if my SSP-600 can do something with my old CDP-300 with the original software/firmware that came with it when it was introduced that it can't do now with either of my CDPs?

When I read about that update I didn't really see the need to do it for several reasons, not to exclude that my Apple computers do not have an RS-232 port and even though I have access to standard PCs and I did buy an adapter that will allow RS-232 on one end and USB on the other, the fact that I was not experiencing any of the strange phenomena that they made mention of, and the biggie, that it would eliminate the possibility of copying a DVD was enough reason to do the update which would have been a bit of a chore for me.

I can honestly say I have never copied a DVD, a CD, an MP3 file, or downloaded the first song, video, or anything else, ever in my life for any reason. Not saying I am a candidate for sainthood or polishing my halo, but I just never cared about any of the file sharing websites and learned long ago that pirating software, cable TV, satellite, or anything of that nature was stealing. Of course it's not stealing if you want to copy your own DVD that you purchased onto another source in your own home and for your own personal use.

In summation, is there something I am missing out on that I can stop missing out on with my original software CDP-300 and my SSP-600 or have I totally misunderstood your entire point?

Are you saying that the SSP-800 can do these things that the SSP-300 and 600 can't do? If so, how is this legal and acceptable and it's not with the "lesser" processors?

I like having newer and more up to date technology if there is a true benefit. I have upgraded several things in my year and a half of this new hobby and just within the Classe line I have gone from CA-5100 to a CA-5200, and the CDP-300 to the CDP-502 because of opportunity and upgradeitis. I have been struggling with whether or not to upgrade to the SSP-800 because of how the bottom has dropped out of the older SSPs and how they hold your feet to the fire if you want the SSP-800. I am not certain that my ears are good enough at almost 47 years of age to distinguish the difference with my 95% DVD and 5% Blu-ray watching (not counting CD/2Channel), and if so, will it be worth the $3 to $5000 upcharge I will incur if I do move up?

I welcome any and all opinions, advice, and education that anybody is willing to throw my way on this entire matter.

At this point, I have no clue whether there will be much difference in my sound quality while watching standard DVDs. I do know that my CDs sure sound sweet when run in bypass mode through balanced interconnects. Of course I am using all balanced interconnects across the board and the AES/EBU for the audio on my DVDs.

I am running my video out from my CDP-502 straight to my plasma with HDMI and using component for everything else except Blu-ray. I am using the HDMI for video only and using the SSP for all audio. Am I missing out on something here?

Thanks in advance for any advice or education anyone may be able to share with someone with no attention span and minimal experience.

Tom

[alebonau]

my cousin has the ssp-600 and with no hdmi capablity no it aint no av hub anymore with everything the way it is on hdmi these days. it is limited as well in ability to handle hdaudio over analog as cant post process to do setup leaving very limited capablity you get in players today

forget about getting your ssp-600 upgraded somehow to a ssp800. that is something my cousin looked at and jsut not something classe do.

so yeah either keep your ssp600 and be happy with your lot, albeit in a slightly limited manner. or sell it off and get something else

such is the way it is and unfortunately something you'll jsut have to come to grips with and accept.

[sikoniko]

There are only a few companies that build their products as modular. Anthem, Meridian, Theta are the ones that come to mind. Classe does not.

I think its easy to take out your frustrations on Classe, but its sort of like saying, why can't my 386 play the latest games in all their 3d glory? Why doesn't MSDOS have an internet browser? (For you Mac people - why can't my System 7 run on Intel's and sync to my ipod!?, and why do I have to start up my system with the extensions off!) Technology changes.

I did ask Dave about the SSP-800 being modular and he said it is not. It had to do with power requirements and pin changes in boards that will come out 1-5 years down the road that they are not able to predict. They make the product on what is available to them at the time.

As far as the component issue... The ONLY reason why the industry went to HDMI (DVI) is to implement copy protection. While it could be considered better to stay in the digital domain, there is no other reason that component could not support 1080p if they were able to implement copy protection. That is why HDMI is required for upconverters.

Classe4me,

If you can justify buying the CDP-502, you could justify getting the SSP-800 (if you wanted to). If you think there was a big upgrade difference from the CDP-300 to the CDP-502, realize that it will be that much and possibly more of an upgrade to the SSP-800, and it would certainly cost less than buying the CDP-502, while not getting anything out of your CDP-300 in trade-up or resale, since you said it's sitting in a closet at the moment.

[alebonau]

There are only a few companies that build their products as modular. Anthem, Meridian, Theta are the ones that come to mind. Classe does not.

I think its easy to take out your frustrations on Classe, but its sort of like saying, why can't my 386 play the latest games in all their 3d glory? Why doesn't MSDOS have an internet browser? (For you Mac people - why can't my System 7 run on Intel's and sync to my ipod!?, and why do I have to start up my system with the extensions off!) Technology changes.

I did ask Dave about the SSP-800 being modular and he said it is not. It had to do with power requirements and pin changes in boards that will come out 1-5 years down the road that they are not able to predict. They make the product on what is available to them at the time.

As far as the component issue... The ONLY reason why the industry went to HDMI (DVI) is to implement copy protection. While it could be considered better to stay in the digital domain, there is no other reason that component could not support 1080p if they were able to implement copy protection. That is why HDMI is required for upconverters.

Classe4me,

If you can justify buying the CDP-502, you could justify getting the SSP-800 (if you wanted to). If you think there was a big upgrade difference from the CDP-300 to the CDP-502, realize that it will be that much and possibly more of an upgrade to the SSP-800, and it would certainly cost less than buying the CDP-502, while not getting anything out of your CDP-300 in trade-up or resale, since you said it's sitting in a closet at the moment.

a reason why brands like nad

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Real_Sound/Receivers/P6K8K5A8

and primare

http://www.primare.net/documents/00063.pdf

have taken the modular line.
some are upgradeable eg krell

http://www.krellonline.com/pdf/s-1200u-upgrade.pdf

and halcro. denon provided a 1080p upgrade on its flagships a few years back

http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=&MID=3&sub=1&fill=&action=detail&Pid=265&

but then it was hdmi capable as well so as not ot leave its owners out in the cold

you'll be suprised by how many people been caught out by non hdmi non HD capable quite pricey equipment that now no longer fits in their system in the way their pride and joy used to perform the role they did. a lot due to high end brands not really having a solution up until a year ago, some still dont ! even though the HD disc formats been available for more than a couple of years now.

such is life, I agree with this kind of equipment you jsut cant expect your equipment to keep with the times for ever !

[beden1]

a reason why brands like nad

http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Real_Sound/Receivers/P6K8K5A8

and primare

http://www.primare.net/documents/00063.pdf

have taken the modular line.
some are upgradeable eg krell

http://www.krellonline.com/pdf/s-1200u-upgrade.pdf

and halcro. denon provided a 1080p upgrade on its flagships a few years back

http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_main.php?main=prod&ver=&MID=3&sub=1&fill=&action=detail&Pid=265&

but then it was hdmi capable as well so as not ot leave its owners out in the cold

you'll be suprised by how many people been caught out by non hdmi non HD capable quite pricey equipment that now no longer fits in their system in the way their pride and joy used to perform the role they did. a lot due to high end brands not really having a solution up until a year ago, some still dont ! even though the HD disc formats been available for more than a couple of years now.

such is life, I agree with this kind of equipment you jsut cant expect your equipment to keep with the times for ever !

Yes, that just sucks for the people who bought their SSP-800. If mine didn't sound so spectacular, I'd just throw the damn thing in the trash. :later:

[wettou]

Yes, that just sucks for the people who bought their SSP-800. If mine didn't sound so spectacular, I'd just throw the damn thing in the trash. :later:

Classé is even worst a they release a new product with out capabilities found in $500 AV/Receivers.... Audyssey, THX, video Scaler........ Hope the sound is that good because I sure can not hear that much difference

[garak]

Classé is even worst a they release a new product with out capabilities found in $500 AV/Receivers.... Audyssey, THX, video Scaler........ Hope the sound is that good because I sure can not hear that much difference

For the last time wettou, if you buy the SSP-800 it's not for the bells and whistles - it's for the best sounding processor built from the highest quality parts.

If you want all of the extra gadgets, buy the Denon or one of the $500 receivers.

Quit claiming that Classé is inferior because they don't feel the need to include gadgets that don't better the sound quality.

It's clear that their philosophy differs from yours. So I say make yourself happy and buy a different product.

[AV-OCD]

Classé is even worst a they release a new product with out capabilities found in $500 AV/Receivers.... Audyssey, THX, video Scaler........ Hope the sound is that good because I sure can not hear that much difference

I know you are probably just playing devil's advocate here, but let me say that I used to be the guy that poo-pooed pieces like the Classe Delta gear for being elitist audiophile jewelry. I would have also told you that you could get equal performance from the likes of Denon for a lot less (virtually all that I've owned up till the SSP-800 were Denon pieces). But if audio quality is your number one priority, then take it from this former non-believer that the SSP-800 lives up to the hype.

If you want very good sounding "hi-fi" buy a prepro with all the latest plug-ins and logos, but if you want to get a step (or twelve) closer to reality, then consider the Classe.

Then again, maybe you won't hear a difference, and that's fine too.

[skuzzyb]

Classé is even worst a they release a new product with out capabilities found in $500 AV/Receivers.... Audyssey, THX, video Scaler........ Hope the sound is that good because I sure can not hear that much difference

The way I look at it is that we are all adults and we all make choices. We chose to purchase Classe, Krell, Denon, whatever, but we know their limitations. These are the choices we all make. If you do not want your audio gear to end up being a boat anchor in the future, do not buy one, or buy it and understand the compromises you are making. For some it is features, for others it is sound quality, or looks, you get the picture. I see no reason to buy something and then complain about what it has versus what it does not have. You need to go back to the reason you bought it in the first place.

I chose not to buy the SSP800 as yet because while it may be good, I think it is half-baked. It does not do some of the basics that most modern processors do today and you continually have to be getting software updates because of the incompatibilites that keep on popping up in this ever changing world of A/V. Maybe one day there will be a SSP800 Mark II. I believe that patience is a virtue, and for me, I am willing to wait until all the early adopters take the unit and do the beta testing for me. Actually I am glad at the number of beta testers on this forum that paid their hard earned cash to do so. Me on the other hand will wait for the noise to quiet down and Classe to realize that they need to do better to part me from my cash.

I know that Classe makes great sounding stuff as I have a few pieces and enjoy them everyday, that is what keeps me hoping that the SSP800 will one day be a piece I can be pround of. In the meanwhile, I will enjoy the interesting comments that show up in the forum and stick with the choices I have made.

My 2 cents....

[sikoniko]

The way I look at it is that we are all adults and we all make choices. We chose to purchase Classe, Krell, Denon, whatever, but we know their limitations. These are the choices we all make. If you do not want your audio gear to end up being a boat anchor in the future, do not buy one, or buy it and understand the compromises you are making. For some it is features, for others it is sound quality, or looks, you get the picture. I see no reason to buy something and then complain about what it has versus what it does not have. You need to go back to the reason you bought it in the first place.

I chose not to buy the SSP800 as yet because while it may be good, I think it is half-baked. It does not do some of the basics that most modern processors do today and you continually have to be getting software updates because of the incompatibilites that keep on popping up in this ever changing world of A/V. Maybe one day there will be a SSP800 Mark II. I believe that patience is a virtue, and for me, I am willing to wait until all the early adopters take the unit and do the beta testing for me. Actually I am glad at the number of beta testers on this forum that paid their hard earned cash to do so. Me on the other hand will wait for the noise to quiet down and Classe to realize that they need to do better to part me from my cash.

I know that Classe makes great sounding stuff as I have a few pieces and enjoy them everyday, that is what keeps me hoping that the SSP800 will one day be a piece I can be pround of. In the meanwhile, I will enjoy the interesting comments that show up in the forum and stick with the choices I have made.

My 2 cents....

Understand that I am quite passionate about my SSP-800, and somewhat take it personal (which is my problem, not yours) when people say things like it is "half-baked".

Can you please elaborate on what makes it "half-baked" and what it would take for the oven to ding and you to say its ready?

[sikoniko]

Classé is even worst a they release a new product with out capabilities found in $500 AV/Receivers.... Audyssey, THX, video Scaler........ Hope the sound is that good because I sure can not hear that much difference

you'd find something to complain about even if it had all of that...

[Ravian]

Hi Tom,

It took me some time to get back online due to work, but I see this thread has generated the obvious two responses :-) Agree or disagree... Here goes:

You'll have to pardon my ignorance because I am somewhat challenged by this new hobby that I have taken a liking to about a year and a half ago, so I am still very much into the learning stage.

When you state that Classe was forced to "switch off" the full HD on the CDP-300 are you making reference to one of the very first software/firmware updates that Classe came out with for that particular source player? I would have to go back on Classe's website and take a look at the updates but I do remember reading something that mentioned that there was a particular feature that the update would disable to comply with copyright protection. Is this possibly what you are referring to? If so, if a person like myself never did that update, replaced that unit with a CPD-502, and stuck the CDP-300 in the closet, got it back out, hooked it back up to my SSP-600, that I would have the "full HD" capability with my SSP-600?

Yes, I was talking about the firmware update 1.0.6 for the CDP-300:
"Disabled 720p/1080i video for component output to comply with Macrovision
licensing Agreement". I've researched it extensively, and I learned that through the DVD Authority, this was enforced upon Classe. However, I suspect this is one of those legal issues where neither parties do not have the time nor feel the need to spend $$ on bringing this to court. I mean, this kind of stuff can hurt business, but rather than fighting it it is accepted and we all move on. My point is this: they should have made an exception to the legislation of banning 1920x1080 resolution signals from analog outputs, namely the ones that did NOT come from 1920x1080 source material. The problem however is that it can't be verified easily, only by checking all the manufacturers of players. Anyway, all the CDP-300 does is upscale it. Same old, same old... if it really had to to something with people in the industry being affraid their material would be copied, the normal 480i analog output should have been switched off to, now wouldn' it? That would make it kind of hard to play DVD alltogether... The real reason is ofcourse that they want to ban every kind of HD res signal from analog, no matter what, to enforce copy protection over HDMI (DVI).

I really need you to elaborate on what you are referring to when you say "full HD" and also why one would need to "change channels on their plasma panel and their SSP-600. Maybe you are referring to changing inputs and sources??

By full HD I meant 1920x1080 res. (not the "HD Ready").

As I not a native speaker (surprise :P), I might have caused a bit of confusion. My bad... Yes, I meant changing inputs and sources. Of course you'd want to do that on the SSP-600 only... not possible once the CD-300 is hooked up directly to your flat panel TV.

Correct me if I am wrong, but analog or component outputs will only produce a signal as high as 720p or 1080i. Is this right or wrong? I know (at least I think I do!) that only HDMI has the ability to produce a true 1080p output. Obviously our standard DVDs are only as good as the source component that can upconvert the signal to the highest possible standard. Can we recognize this as a true 1080p? I do know that when I queue up my CDP (either one) and my Blu-ray at the exact same time and switch back and forth is is very difficult to distinguish one from the other at my seating position which is 6.8 miles from.....no, just kidding there.... about 12 or 13 feet back from a 60" Pioneer Elite.

Yes, you are right. The CDP-300 (before the upgrade) only put out 720p or 1080i. Via the HDMI you still have this, go figure!!! Now about that "true 1080p"... As you know the only difference between 1080i and 1080p is that the first sends 540 even and 540 uneven lines (half frames) 30 (25 in Europe) times/sec, while the last sends 1080 lines (full frames) 30 (25) times/sec. This has NOTHING to do with resolution, just with the refresh rate. Both are 1920x1080 pixels. If you're in the league of HQ players, I can safely agree with you that the difference is hardly noticable. When you compare that to a Blu-ray player with 1080p output, you are absolutely right the end quality is determined for the most part by the source material. Very much like in audio, the recording itself, mixing and the studio where the recording has taken place is most important. Can't turn sh*t into gold... Anyway, I can imagine that you can't see much difference between the Pioneer and the Classe when using the same res, judging from the same source material (the movie).
Our ears and eyes have their limitations as well, and they may vary with person, age (and level of intoxication too), so what's the absolute reference here?? :-)

Don't misinterpret my reply/inquiry as anything other than a fact finding mission for myself and in no way am I challenging what you are saying in the least. What I am wanting to know is if my SSP-600 can do something with my old CDP-300 with the original software/firmware that came with it when it was introduced that it can't do now with either of my CDPs?

No problem! Go ahead and write :-) Yes, currently your CDP-300 can not upsample the signal to 720p or 1080i and output it through component out. The SSP-600 functionality does not change, just the CDP-300 did.

When I read about that update I didn't really see the need to do it for several reasons, not to exclude that my Apple computers do not have an RS-232 port and even though I have access to standard PCs and I did buy an adapter that will allow RS-232 on one end and USB on the other, the fact that I was not experiencing any of the strange phenomena that they made mention of, and the biggie, that it would eliminate the possibility of copying a DVD was enough reason to do the update which would have been a bit of a chore for me.

I can honestly say I have never copied a DVD, a CD, an MP3 file, or downloaded the first song, video, or anything else, ever in my life for any reason. Not saying I am a candidate for sainthood or polishing my halo, but I just never cared about any of the file sharing websites and learned long ago that pirating software, cable TV, satellite, or anything of that nature was stealing. Of course it's not stealing if you want to copy your own DVD that you purchased onto another source in your own home and for your own personal use.

I never copy anything as well, and that's not really the issue. The issue is that I got my CDP-300 back from repair after buying it new and 3 months later the transport mechanism was DEAD, and the importer was so kind to put the latest firmware on it. So suddenly I had to swith back to 480, because I wanted to use my SSP600 as an A/V switch..

[QUOTE=Classe4me]
In summation, is there something I am missing out on that I can stop missing out on with my original software CDP-300 and my SSP-600 or have I totally misunderstood your entire point? [\QUOTE]

I think I've explained it...right?

Are you saying that the SSP-800 can do these things that the SSP-300 and 600 can't do? If so, how is this legal and acceptable and it's not with the "lesser" processors?

Yes, at least you can use it as a central switch again, using 1080i/p through HDMI/DVI all the way... at least that's what I know, correct me if I'm wrong.

I like having newer and more up to date technology if there is a true benefit. I have upgraded several things in my year and a half of this new hobby and just within the Classe line I have gone from CA-5100 to a CA-5200, and the CDP-300 to the CDP-502 because of opportunity and upgradeitis. I have been struggling with whether or not to upgrade to the SSP-800 because of how the bottom has dropped out of the older SSPs and how they hold your feet to the fire if you want the SSP-800. I am not certain that my ears are good enough at almost 47 years of age to distinguish the difference with my 95% DVD and 5% Blu-ray watching (not counting CD/2Channel), and if so, will it be worth the $3 to $5000 upcharge I will incur if I do move up?

I welcome any and all opinions, advice, and education that anybody is willing to throw my way on this entire matter.

At this point, I have no clue whether there will be much difference in my sound quality while watching standard DVDs. I do know that my CDs sure sound sweet when run in bypass mode through balanced interconnects. Of course I am using all balanced interconnects across the board and the AES/EBU for the audio on my DVDs.

I am running my video out from my CDP-502 straight to my plasma with HDMI and using component for everything else except Blu-ray. I am using the HDMI for video only and using the SSP for all audio. Am I missing out on something here?

Thanks in advance for any advice or education anyone may be able to share with someone with no attention span and minimal experience.

Tom

I think the last part has been answered in the other posts...

[Ravian]

To respond to the other two kinds of reactions..

Again, the firmware update rendering the output unusable is not biggy compared to the other principle I was advocating about the modularity.

If you agree, no need to elaborate, if you don't all I can say is of course I know these things are not built to last infinitely, from a technical or functional point of view. I am just claiming that if a manufacturer is selling kilobuck equipment, a customer may ask for a bit more attention to customer service not only in aftersales, but also in design. Otherwise there'd be no difference to the Pioneers, Denon's and Onkyo's of this world, aside from the quality.

I am amazed however, that some people kind of tell me to avoid the SSP800 and keep the SSP600. If I hook up other stuff like an XBOX360, PS3, my Blu-ray player, etc, I could use them all through the SSP800 or not? That to me would already be the reason to buy it...

[beden1]

I am amazed however, that some people kind of tell me to avoid the SSP800 and keep the SSP600. If I hook up other stuff like an XBOX360, PS3, my Blu-ray player, etc, I could use them all through the SSP800 or not? That to me would already be the reason to buy it...

Yes you can. There are 4 HDMI inputs and 2 HDMI outputs.

[sikoniko]

I am amazed however, that some people kind of tell me to avoid the SSP800 and keep the SSP600. If I hook up other stuff like an XBOX360, PS3, my Blu-ray player, etc, I could use them all through the SSP800 or not? That to me would already be the reason to buy it...

Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure why anyone would say keep the SSP-600 over the SSP-800 if you have money in hand... I've owned both and I can say the SSP-800 is a better unit. If you LOVE the analog by-pass of the SSP-600, the SSP-800 is slightly different sounding, but you would grow to enjoy it more than you do the SSP-600.

Think of it this way...

SSP-600 has the analog by-pass of the CP-500
SSP-800 has Analog by-pass and digital domain of CP-700.

Either way, you still get great value for your money.

[skuzzyb]

Sikoniko, not trying to bash classe as I am a passionate owner myself and I think that there are few components out there that sound as good as a classe.

Now what I mean by "half-baked" is this...

The numerous firmware updates that I have seen since it has been released
The loss of signal due to handshaking (of course this is due to HDMI handshaking but some implementations seem to be better than others)
The fact that Classe chose to release the processor before the ability to decode hi-res audio (DTS MA, Dolby TruHD) was available to them - this immediately created something for the critics to complain about. I understand that the decoding can be done in the player, I know, I am doing it on my BluRay.
No Auto EQ such as Audessey, not necessarily a deal breaker but an oversight none the less in an $8000.00 processor
No video up-scaling, agan, not a deal breaker as I think that up-scaling can be done better elsewhere but given the price of the unit and the fact it is an AV processor, it should have it.

So, there are some of my reasons why I think it is half-baked. Now after saying all this, once the new board has been added and the capabilities are there to handle the hi-res signals, I will be lining up to part with my hard-earned cash. By then hopefully a lot of the current issues will be ironed out.

[sikoniko]

Sikoniko, not trying to bash classe as I am a passionate owner myself and I think that there are few components out there that sound as good as a classe.

Now what I mean by "half-baked" is this...

The numerous firmware updates that I have seen since it has been released
The loss of signal due to handshaking (of course this is due to HDMI handshaking but some implementations seem to be better than others)
The fact that Classe chose to release the processor before the ability to decode hi-res audio (DTS MA, Dolby TruHD) was available to them - this immediately created something for the critics to complain about. I understand that the decoding can be done in the player, I know, I am doing it on my SSP600.
No Auto EQ such as Audessey, not necessarily a deal breaker but an oversight none the less in an $8000.00 processor
No video up-scaling, agan, not a deal breaker as I think that up-scaling can be done better elsewhere but given the price of the unit and the fact it is an AV processor, it should have it.

So, there are some of my reasons why I think it is half-baked. Now after saying all this, once the new board has been added and the capabilities are there to handle the hi-res signals, I will be lining up to part with my hard-earned cash. By then hopefully a lot of the current issues will be ironed out.

I want to come across with my reply as being objective and not subjective. We already know I am subjective, so please bare with me...

To address your concerns... in order.

1. Consider that this is Classe's first iteration of Pre/Pro with HDMI. If you look at the other companies that have been dealing with it for a few years, you will find that they all have problems the first go-around. Anthem and Halcro were notoriously unstable, and often times unuseable during the first half-dozen rounds of updates that they were receiving. Considering that Classe has released 2 updates since the final code revision 1.0 was released, I would say they have done very well to squash the bugs in short-order. It might be the perception that since Classe is late to the game when compared against the Anthem, Halcro, or the mass-market manufacturers, then you have a point. But if you take it in the context of Classe, I think you are being rather un-forgiving.

2. Classe chose to release the processor without the decoding early because it is unnecessary. The only reason they are releasing it at all is because of consumer perception. At this time, from what I am told, Classe has no extended plans to use the extended DSP power that is offered by the upgrade.

I would challenge you in a friendly wager to sit with an SSP-800 for a couple weeks and come to the conclusion that it is uncapable of delivering an excellent experience today, as-is, because it does not do on-board decoding.

"Your eyes can deceive you; don't trust them." -Obi Wan Kenobi

3. No AutoEQ - This would be a convenience, but again not a necessity because they supplied a sufficient Manual EQ. I think this debate has gone round-and-round enough that it doesn't need to be rehashed. If that is a deal breaker for you, there are plenty of other products that do supply it.

4. No Up-scaler - Is this really necessary? My projector has an OK upscaler... My Oppo has a good up-scaler... thats 2 upscalers. Why do I need a third in my Pre/Pro? The only benefit of a scaler is for SD content, unless you want to alter and manipulate what the director intended for you to see, but then we get into artistic intent. So, lets say for debate that the Pre/Pro had one in it.

You buy the SSP-800 today with the top-of-the-line upscaler. two years from now, will it still be top-of-the-line? Would you expect Classe to refresh it every year? Would you be willing to pay the difference of say $2000 for classe to add a scaler? So instead of $8000, the unit costs $10,000 because of the scaler? Couldn't you just buy an external scaler for that price? One that you could upgrade as you wanted and didn't make the SSP become obsolete?

So the argument I hear coming... "but if it is on the SSP, you aren't as subject to lip-synch issues". Well, there is a lip-synch toggle on the SSP, so you can fix that anyways.

Buying a Pre/Pro with a scaler is buying a feature that has a short life-span and in a year is obsolete. Anthem is already replacing the one they put in the original D2. So what about the customer that buys the SSP-800 the third or fourth year it is out, and it already is obsolete? They are paying for a scaler that they may not want to use. What if their argument is why am I paying for this out-dated scaler? I don't watch SD content anyways...

Most displays provide very nice scalers already. Why have all the redundancy? Why pay for it 3 or 4 times? I feel like that is waisting my hard earned money. Maybe you have money to burn, but I certainly don't right now. My job is very stable, but we are worried about my wife being layed-off, especially since we are 18 weeks pregnant.

So you call it half-baked... I say its just right. Classe can't please everybody, and they realize that so they aren't trying to.

They may do an AutoEQ some day in the future, but the fact doesn't change that you may be able to cook a good steak (automated EQ) but it certainly doesn't compare to one cooked at an excellent 5 star restaraunt (professional acoustician that both EQ's and treats a room based on years of experience and hard-learned skills and knowledge). :W

[Classe4me]

Curious

I am curious to know if everyone who has the SSP-800 and has owned the SSP-600, if it is in their opinion that the better sound quality is more from a 2 channel CD or other source listening standpoint or from DVD or Blu-ray multi-channel standpoint? I have yet to be able to go anywhere to A/B these two processors, and even though it may be possible for the normal person to be able to recall what their SSP-600 sounded like compared to what their new SSP-800 sounds like but my memory is just not that good. I have A/Bd speakers and found one pair to absolutely embarrass the other pair. The problem is, I know deep down that in two separate places at two separate times with no way to compare the same two pair of speakers that assuming both are very similar in quality and we are dealing with two average rooms with halfway decent acoustic properties that both pair are going to sound great. It's only when you can compare back to back at the same time that you can tell a drastic difference. No offense at all to Bose owners, but you go to the Bose store and listen to one of their higher end systems with some of their wonderfully engineeered music discs or DVDs in their perfectly designed listening rooms you can be totally blow away at how good it sounds. Bring that system home and compare it to the level of system that the average person who posts here on Club Classe and there will be no comparison in the least.

What I would love to know is that for those who have had both, have both, compared both, or have the talent to have etched in their minds the performance of both to tell me in layman's terms what the difference between the two processors is using the same source players and material.

The most elementary way I can relate two products is to rate them on a 1 to 10 scale. Would those of you who fit the above criteria make this easy for me to understand and rate each processor on a scale of 1 to 10 for 2 channel and also on multi-channel or video source material. I am trying to see where this processor shines compared to my SSP-600 and it what way as to make an intelligent decision on whether or not I will get my money's worth if I choose to trade up.

Dan, I know you think if I can justify going from the CDP-300 to the CDP-502 that I can justify the processor but if you PM me I will tell you specific details on that upgrade and you will see there was no choice in that matter. I couldn't afford NOT to do it and even if I have to almost give my CDP-300 away I will still be okay.

I just picked up a pair of Verity Audio Parsifal Ovation speakers and can always create a 2 channel room and use my 502 as my reference CD player, add a preamp of my choosing, which are quite cheap right now and put my CDP-300 back in service in my home theater.

Decisions, decisions!

Tom

P.S. Ravian, thank you for taking the time to do your research, homework, and the time to answer my questions and give me your opinions and such on all of my inquiries. I know you spend some time looking into these things and I don't want them to go unnoticed or unappreciated. I am curious to know your experience with Classe from an ownership standpoint, whether it was good or bad, and what you may enjoy as your choice or equipment nowadays?

[skuzzyb]

I want to come across with my reply as being objective and not subjective. We already know I am subjective, so please bare with me...

To address your concerns... in order.

1. Consider that this is Classe's first iteration of Pre/Pro with HDMI. If you look at the other companies that have been dealing with it for a few years, you will find that they all have problems the first go-around. Anthem and Halcro were notoriously unstable, and often times unuseable during the first half-dozen rounds of updates that they were receiving. Considering that Classe has released 2 updates since the final code revision 1.0 was released, I would say they have done very well to squash the bugs in short-order. It might be the perception that since Classe is late to the game when compared against the Anthem, Halcro, or the mass-market manufacturers, then you have a point. But if you take it in the context of Classe, I think you are being rather un-forgiving.:W

Not unforgiving, just very picky as to how to spend my money, and in Classe's case, like all high end equipment, I should be unforgiving. It just goes to show how little we have come to expect from "high end" gear. An example, a good friend of mine owns a maserati quatroporte. We were having a conversation a few weeks ago about the fact that in the six months he has had it he as brought it into the shop 4 times for service. He said that he would be happy if he just had to bring it in once per month! Now that to me is low expectations. I chose not to have that type of expectation when I spend that much money on something.

2. Classe chose to release the processor without the decoding early because it is unnecessary. The only reason they are releasing it at all is because of consumer perception. At this time, from what I am told, Classe has no extended plans to use the extended DSP power that is offered by the upgrade.
:W

It may be unnecessary but it would have been nice. Once my equipment goes into the rack I do not want to have to take it out unless it is broken, it is too much of a pain to unhook everything and move it to get it serviced, hence my patience in waiting that a field upgrade does not have to be performed.

I would challenge you in a friendly wager to sit with an SSP-800 for a couple weeks and come to the conclusion that it is uncapable of delivering an excellent experience today, as-is, because it does not do on-board decoding.

"Your eyes can deceive you; don't trust them." -Obi Wan Kenobi
:W

Right now I am not fine without on baord decoding, in fact my blu-ray player does it and I am not happy with it, it actually sounds pretty horrible when I listen to hi-res audio via analog, maybe it is a set up issue but now I use the lossy formats and get better results with a digital coax versus the analog cables that I spent an arm and a leg on. Interestingly enough, I always thought that it should sound the same regardless of where the decoding was done. Cannot say I am convinced that is the case at the moment.

3. No AutoEQ - This would be a convenience, but again not a necessity because they supplied a sufficient Manual EQ. I think this debate has gone round-and-round enough that it doesn't need to be rehashed. If that is a deal breaker for you, there are plenty of other products that do supply it.
:W

Never said it was needed, but at that price it would be nice...

4. No Up-scaler - Is this really necessary? My projector has an OK upscaler... My Oppo has a good up-scaler... thats 2 upscalers. Why do I need a third in my Pre/Pro? The only benefit of a scaler is for SD content, unless you want to alter and manipulate what the director intended for you to see, but then we get into artistic intent. So, lets say for debate that the Pre/Pro had one in it.

You buy the SSP-800 today with the top-of-the-line upscaler. two years from now, will it still be top-of-the-line? Would you expect Classe to refresh it every year? Would you be willing to pay the difference of say $2000 for classe to add a scaler? So instead of $8000, the unit costs $10,000 because of the scaler? Couldn't you just buy an external scaler for that price? One that you could upgrade as you wanted and didn't make the SSP become obsolete?

So the argument I hear coming... "but if it is on the SSP, you aren't as subject to lip-synch issues". Well, there is a lip-synch toggle on the SSP, so you can fix that anyways.

Buying a Pre/Pro with a scaler is buying a feature that has a short life-span and in a year is obsolete. Anthem is already replacing the one they put in the original D2. So what about the customer that buys the SSP-800 the third or fourth year it is out, and it already is obsolete? They are paying for a scaler that they may not want to use. What if their argument is why am I paying for this out-dated scaler? I don't watch SD content anyways...

:W

Do not disagree, but if the SSP800 should be a AV Processor it should be able to be fed everything and do the heavy lifting, that is the V in the AV. Lucky where you live you can get all HD content, not the same in the south pacific.

Most displays provide very nice scalers already. Why have all the redundancy? Why pay for it 3 or 4 times? I feel like that is waisting my hard earned money. Maybe you have money to burn, but I certainly don't right now. My job is very stable, but we are worried about my wife being layed-off, especially since we are 18 weeks pregnant.

:W

Congratulations!! Hope it all goes well.

So you call it half-baked... I say its just right. Classe can't please everybody, and they realize that so they aren't trying to.

They may do an AutoEQ some day in the future, but the fact doesn't change that you may be able to cook a good steak (automated EQ) but it certainly doesn't compare to one cooked at an excellent 5 star restaraunt (professional acoustician that both EQ's and treats a room based on years of experience and hard-learned skills and knowledge). :W

I do not disagreee with what you have said, and in time I will get one or , right now I do not see a need for it until they can give me what I want, not what I need, but what I want.

skz

[wettou]

Not unforgiving, just very picky as to how to spend my money, and in Classe's case, like all high end equipment, I should be unforgiving. It just goes to show how little we have come to expect from "high end" gear. An example, a good friend of mine owns a maserati quatroporte. We were having a conversation a few weeks ago about the fact that in the six months he has had it he as brought it into the shop 4 times for service. He said that he would be happy if he just had to bring it in once per month! Now that to me is low expectations. I chose not to have that type of expectation when I spend that much money on something.

I could not agree more with you but as you see you are dealing with true believer that the world is flat :W

So with that you should just stop asking questions and making remarks and just accept it as it is or like me make an other choice that is to wait a year let Classé sort out all the bugs and deliver the upgrade and the buy it.

"Unforgiven" great movie by the way, you should have been patient like me and waited until they get their act together

It may be unnecessary but it would have been nice. Once my equipment goes into the rack I do not want to have to take it out unless it is broken, it is too much of a pain to unhook everything and move it to get it serviced, hence my patience in waiting that a field upgrade does not have to be performed.

Here again I agree a 100% with you but what I was told by Classé and in Classé defense the TI chip 64 Bit that decodes the new codecs was still being designed, all the other chips are 32bits?

So I wait to see if they deliver the goods.....

Right now I am not fine without on baord decoding, in fact my blu-ray player does it and I am not happy with it, it actually sounds pretty horrible when I listen to hi-res audio via analog, maybe it is a set up issue but now I use the lossy formats and get better results with a digital coax versus the analog cables that I spent an arm and a leg on. Interestingly enough, I always thought that it should sound the same regardless of where the decoding was done. Cannot say I am convinced that is the case at the moment.

Come on how dare you question it the DAC in a $350 players will be as good as what is in the Classé!!! Not!! can you use HDMi that might solve your problem

Never said it was needed, but at that price it would be nice...

Actually I was told by Classé that there will never be an automated EQ for the SSP-800. May be in the SSP-1000 and the price will be $20,000

In addition, Audyssey's CTO told me that Classé never even bothered testing the Audyssey? So how can they tell if it is good or not :cry:

Do not disagree, but if the SSP800 should be a AV Processor it should be able to be fed everything and do the heavy lifting, that is the V in the AV. Lucky where you live you can get all HD content, not the same in the south pacific.

Where in the South Pacific?

I do not disagreee with what you have said, and in time I will get one or , right now I do not see a need for it until they can give me what I want, not what I need, but what I want. skz

It is interesting that a dealer said to me I usually don't recommend to my client to buy a new model for at least six months to a year by then they have fixed the bugs 8O and it wont' have to be in the shop as much.

The High-End companies figure that if you have the money to pay these ridiculous prices then you will replace your gear every year and not complain about the lack of quality. High End never equaled quality unfortunately!!!


As to the cars yes, Italian cars are beautiful, Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo but you need a great mechanic with hoards of cash.. Buy a Lexus and you won't have that problem.. I know they don't look as nice :B

[beden1]

I
As to the cars yes, Italian cars are beautiful, Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo but you need a great mechanic with hoards of cash.. Buy a Lexus and you won't have that problem.. I know they don't look as nice :B

Buy American, and keep our cash at home! :T

[sikoniko]

I could not agree more with you but as you see you are dealing with true believer that the world is flat :W

:roll:

If you have such little faith, what is keeping you here? I see you bash Classe every chance you get for releasing the product. There are plenty of competing products that you obviously think have better offerings. Why not go there? Instead of trying to make the Classe something it is not, and may never be.

[beden1]

:roll:

If you have such little faith, what is keeping you here? I see you bash Classe every chance you get for releasing the product. There are plenty of competing products that you obviously think have better offerings. Why not go there? Instead of trying to make the Classe something it is not, and may never be.

Wettou must think Classe makes some good equipment since he says he owns some of their pieces.

Maybe it's just Island Fever from living on Hawaii too long?

At this point, I'm at least very pleased with the SSP-800 and am glad to have one in my system. I guess I don't know what I'm missing that he says is so important, but, it sounds real sweet and my picture looks great.

[merlinus]

Buy American, and keep our cash at home! :T

Unless I am sadly mistaken, I do believe Classe is a Canadian company. And given the U.S. propensity for megabuck gas-guzzling monsters with almost zero quality control, I never buy American-made automobiles!

[skuzzyb]

I could not agree more with you but as you see you are dealing with true believer that the world is flat :W

So with that you should just stop asking questions and making remarks and just accept it as it is or like me make an other choice that is to wait a year let Classé sort out all the bugs and deliver the upgrade and the buy it.

"Unforgiven" great movie by the way, you should have been patient like me and waited until they get their act together :B

Unforgiven is one of my favourite movies, defintely a top 10

Come on how dare you question it the DAC in a $350 players will be as good as what is in the Classé!!! Not!! can you use HDMi that might solve your problem
:B

Can't really since my SSP600 does not have HDMI inputs...

Actually I was told by Classé that there will never be an automated EQ for the SSP-800. May be in the SSP-1000 and the price will be $20,000

In addition, Audyssey's CTO told me that Classé never even bothered testing the Audyssey? So how can they tell if it is good or not :cry: :B

If that is true, that is a shame. I guess I will have to spend some time to really optimize the system when I get it.... as well as spend some dosh to have it done professionally..

Where in the South Pacific?
:B

Christchurch, New Zealand

It is interesting that a dealer said to me I usually don't recommend to my client to buy a new model for at least six months to a year by then they have fixed the bugs 8O and it wont' have to be in the shop as much.

The High-End companies figure that if you have the money to pay these ridiculous prices then you will replace your gear every year and not complain about the lack of quality. High End never equaled quality unfortunately!!!


As to the cars yes, Italian cars are beautiful, Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo but you need a great mechanic with hoards of cash.. Buy a Lexus and you won't have that problem.. I know they don't look as nice :B

Yep, you are right about the cars.... my friend says that owning one of those is like dating a hooker on crack, when she is high you cannot get anything, but when she is not she is truly amazing.

Anyway, I will continue to enjoy my SSP600, save my cash and buy something when the time is right and I feel like some semblance of sensibilities gets back in the AV market. Who knows, in a few years we all may be talking about HDMI 2.0! I liked it a lot more when things were simpler.... must be getting old.

skz

[beden1]

Unless I am sadly mistaken, I do believe Classe is a Canadian company. And given the U.S. propensity for megabuck gas-guzzling monsters with almost zero quality control, I never buy American-made automobiles!

I was referring to American cars and not to Classe. But thanks.

[Ravian]

Hi Tom (and all others),

Back again... I totaly agree with you on the subjective comparison stuff and how difficult it is to judge. A direct A/B comparison is way better than different occasions (environments, etc), but even in A/B it's sometimes pretty hard to judge. My cousin has built a dedicated listening room in the back-yard, measuring some 30 x 20 x 9 ft, fully optimized and calculated by an acoustics engineer. When we listen to the high-end stuff, differences are small (unless sound character differs very much) and we usually do a blind test where one makes the switch and doesn't tell the other. That helps... On the other hand, if you'd take that gear into my attic, it wouldn't sound the same at all. Your room is where the magic starts...

What I would love to know is that for those who have had both, have both, compared both, or have the talent to have etched in their minds the performance of both to tell me in layman's terms what the difference between the two processors is using the same source players and material.

I would too, but on the other hand, taking into account my room, I am more interested in the connectivity and user-friendly control due to the upgraded HDMI inputs and how well it will serve as a central A/V switch. Again, even if the SSP800 is better, I feel my room wouldn't emphasize the difference.

I just picked up a pair of Verity Audio Parsifal Ovation speakers and can always create a 2 channel room and use my 502 as my reference CD player, add a preamp of my choosing, which are quite cheap right now and put my CDP-300 back in service in my home theater.

Nice... :-) I have to admit I mainly listen to 2 channel for audio...

Decisions, decisions!

Tom

P.S. Ravian, thank you for taking the time to do your research, homework, and the time to answer my questions and give me your opinions and such on all of my inquiries. I know you spend some time looking into these things and I don't want them to go unnoticed or unappreciated. I am curious to know your experience with Classe from an ownership standpoint, whether it was good or bad, and what you may enjoy as your choice or equipment nowadays?

Thanks Tom, my pleasure. I have been an audiophile from the age of 12 and went all the way up to systems like Genesis II.5 with Audio Research monos driven by a completely modded CEC TL-1X (sweeeet) and pre. Then I met my wife (oh dear!) and downsized in a couple of steps to an Apogee Duetta Signature driven by Portal Paladin Monos, a Rothwell passive pre and Pink Triangle Litaural CD-player (old but good).

Now for my involvement in Classe. Since my experience with audio gear and HT stuff goes back 20+ years (including the mutual hobby of my cousin), I was asked by a friend to build him his home theatre, well kind of....in his living room. Sonics were as important as looks, so the Delta Series was an obvious choice. I bought a CA-5200, SSP600, CD-300, top-of-the-line B&G mains and surrounds and a DD-15 from Velodyne. Hooked everything up with Nordost (analog audio, XLR), Kimber Illuminations Orchid (AES-EBU) and the rest of the video cabling (component) all Kimber as well. I set up everything and spent some time to get it just right. His room is difficult (oddly shaped and hard surfaces), but in the end it really, really kicked butt. The Classe and the B&G are a good match, no matter if the Classe is a bit pricier. Once again it shows how good a speaker can play with top-notch stuff driving it. Anyway, then the CDP-300 broke down after 4 months and the drive mechanism was replaced, with the software upgrade the upscaling on component out vanished... and you can imagine my friend wasn't too happy. Luckily he remodeled his house for a while and poof...there was the SSP-800. Money is not an issue for him, but there's another thing I spoke of in earlier posts, it's the fact that IF money doesn't matter, you STILL have to make a customer feel ok with the things he/she buys, whether it's the sound quality or ease-of-use... And recommending the stuff while it's outdated a year later makes me look bad, too :-) Then I question myself, from my background (hobby as well as work), why the almost "cost no object" gear suffers from the same economic choices as cheaper gear... It doesn't need to, but of course I understand that you can't keep into account everything when designing gear.

Aside from that, I have listened to the system extensively and know two things:
1. B&W, although imported/paired here in the Netherlands with Classe is not my favorite combo
2. The Bohlenders are good but the Classe is thirsty for more.
3. The CA-5200 is an animal!

Choices, choices... That's why I'm getting back to another hobby of mine...playing guitar Oh...and thinking about the future of my music collection, which simply isn't going to last, so I need a player with no moving parts (not even a harddisk), uncompressed (hi-rez) audio feeding any DAC (or digital amp maybe if they sound as good as tubes) of my choosing... I guess I'll start building the software in case memory prices drop even more in the near future :-)

Cheers!

[Classe4me]

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[bigburner]

Christchurch, New Zealand

skuzzyb, I'm told Christchurch is the most beautiful city in the world.

Nigel.

[skuzzyb]

skuzzyb, I'm told Christchurch is the most beautiful city in the world.

Nigel.

It is a great place to live and definitely a beautiful city. It the weather was more consistent no-one would live anywhere else! I like the fact that I am only an hour and a half away from the skifields and 5 minutes to the beach.

I see you are in NZ as well, where?

skz

[bigburner]

I see you are in NZ as well, where?

Burnside/Ilam.

[skuzzyb]

we are neighbours! well, in redcliffs... but close enough.

[wettou]

. Your room is where the magic starts...

Yes a great system in a bad room will sound bad a decent system in a great room will sound outstanding. Room Acoustic check this book a great read:


Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms



And he is not selling gear which is a nice change

[Ravian]

thanks Wettou! I will check it out... :-) I have bought and read the Master Handbook of Acoustics a few years ago... good standard work but requires quite some knowledge of physics etc. On the other hand, these days there are some software packages which make it easier to simulate/measure/optimize your room... makes life a bit easier :-)