Classé CA-5200

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  • wettou
    Ultra Senior Member
    • May 2006
    • 3389

    Classé CA-5200

    Did you know that the difference between 200W and 400W is only 3db

    Just sit closer and you will have better sound, I sit at about 7-10 feet away (2-3 meter)

    Here is an interesting article from Musical Fidelity's web site:

    Loudspeaker sensitivity and listening position

    All loudspeakers’ sensitivities are quoted at XXdB at one metre for 2.83 volts. This sounds straightforward but, of course, nobody listens to their speaker at one meter (3.28 Ft). The average listening distance from a loudspeaker is around 3.5 (11.48ft) to 4 meters (13.12ft). This is where the fun starts.


    Sound pressure level from a loudspeaker reduces by 6dB for each doubling of distance. This is highly significant. If a loudspeaker were rated at 87dB sensitivity (in other words, you get 87dB of level for 2.83 volts input) at one metre, then at four metres, you have 12dB less level. This is huge amount of sound pressure level difference.

    Again, many people don’t understand the significance of ‘just a few dB’ in power terms.

    Amplifier power and dB Watts

    The vast majority of people have no idea of the practical connection between watts and dB watts. Let us enlighten you. Watts are simply a measure of an amplifier’s heating power. There is no intuitive relationship at all to listening level measured in dB. Ignorance about the practical connection between watts and dB watts is one of the biggest causes of the problems of the business.

    When we explain the basic relationship between watts and dB watts, you might begin to understand why amplifier manufacturers are anxious to sweep it under the carpet. Essentially, each dB step in sound pressure level requires a 25% increase (approx) in power. A 3dB increase requires double the power. This sounds incredible, but it is true. Perhaps now you might glimpse why amplifier manufacturers are anxious that you don’t look at amplifier power in terms of what the amplifier actually does with music. Below is a chart which converts watts to dB watts. "I think this is at 8Ω?"

    30W 15dBW
    40W 16dBW
    50W 17dBW
    63W 18dBW
    80W 19dBW
    100W 20dBW
    125W 21dBW
    158W 22dBW
    200W 23dBW
    251W 24dBW
    316W 25dBW
    400W 26dBW
    500W 27dBW
    631W 28dBW
    795W 29dBW
    1000W 30dBW

    How to put together a dynamically accurate system

    Once you have converted amplifier power to dB watts, it is pretty straightforward to work out how much power/loudspeaker sensitivity you need to achieve a given peak level.
    1. Convert amplifier power in watts to dB watts.
    2. Add the amplifier power in dB watts to the loudspeaker sensitivity in dB.
    3. Deduct the listening position attenuation (between 7dB -12dB).
    4. You now have your system’s peak level ability at your listening position.
    The results are pretty shocking, aren’t they? They show that the large majority of hi-fi systems are incapable of delivering musically accurate peaks.

    Slide Rule

    The OK/green area starts at 106dB, which is quite a lot less than you would expect to hear in a concert hall.

    A top quality hi-fi system should be able to deliver a 110dB peak. An adequate hi-fi system should be able to deliver half that level, a 107dB peak. And to be helpful, I suppose a system that delivers 1dB less than that could still be called hi-fi. That’s how we got to the green section starting at 106dB.

    But my 50W-100W amplifier seems to sound okay

    One of the most confusing aspects of all this power/loudspeaker sensitivity stuff is that it doesn’t seem to offer an explanation of how lower-powered amplifiers seem to offer a ‘room-filling sound’. The apparent paradox arises because of a phenomenon called reverberant field. This is the sonic field created between the loudspeakers, and it is made up of the sound produced by the hi-fi system plus echoes and other resonances caused by room irregularities, which linger for a few micro-seconds. Paradoxically, the more distortion an amplifier produces, the richer that reverberant field sounds. When the reverberant field is enriched with distortions and non-linearities, which then reverberate, this creates the illusion of fuller, richer sound. Even more paradoxically, a higher-powered amplifier, which is not limiting or clipping, will sound quieter then the inferior amplifier which is distorting regularly.

    However, it is beyond dispute that the smaller amplifier will be incapable of ever, under any circumstances, producing a significant dynamic attack. In our opinion, dynamic attack is vital to the realistic reproduction of music.
    Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower
  • sikoniko
    Super Senior Member
    • Aug 2003
    • 2299

    #2
    I've retyped this several times in an attempt to not start a fuss... but I don't know how to say anything more than, this is the same principle that is outlined in the thread "The Science of a Watt. The Classe Chronicles".

    Keep in mind there are other factors that can play into this. Room size and source being two that come to mind. Obviously you couldn't fill an ampitheater with 100W. I had a conversation with Rebelman about this. He also pointed out that movies can be more subject to high power requirements (even over music) because they can go from dead quiet to a lot of noise in an instant, whereas music is generally pretty consistent (although some classical titles come to mind that would break that rule!)
    I'm just sittin here watchin the wheels go round and round...

    Comment

    • beden1
      Super Senior Member
      • Oct 2006
      • 1676

      #3
      Not being an engineer or scientist, one question that I have regarding this topic...is how voltage plays into the equation versus watts?

      Comment

      • Allegiance
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2006
        • 247

        #4
        That methodology doesn't make sense.

        If I take a 800D (90db) pair it with a M400 (26db) = 116db.

        But at 4 metres I have to minus 12db from it so that equals 104db which means that not even a 800D and M400 can achieve a db level in the safe zone

        Comment

        • Allegiance
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2006
          • 247

          #5
          Actually this makes it easier

          Comment

          • wettou
            Ultra Senior Member
            • May 2006
            • 3389

            #6
            Originally posted by Allegiance
            Quite a difference so who is right??
            Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

            Comment

            • wettou
              Ultra Senior Member
              • May 2006
              • 3389

              #7
              Originally posted by Allegiance
              That methodology doesn't make sense. If I take a 800D (90db) pair it with a M400 (26db) = 116db. But at 4 metres I have to minus 12db from it so that equals 104db which means that not even a 800D and M400 can achieve a db level in the safe zone
              Hum you are right something is wrong or is it?
              Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil, and you're a thousand miles from the corn field."Dwight D. Eisenhower

              Comment

              • Allegiance
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2006
                • 247

                #8
                Anyone know? :cry:

                Comment

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