classe CA 201

[sevo]

Any body know how to link the classe CA 201 to the pre-amp (adcom gfp-7500) so that when one turns the pre-amp on with the remote control, the amp will turn on too? The amp doesn't turn on by a remote control. Thanks.

[Glen B]

You can't remote trigger the CA-201 or any other Classé legacy model amps directly with any preamp. The remote jack on the rear of the CA-201 was meant to be used with the now discontinued Classé RC-1 Remote Interface. The only current option is to use another controller that can be configured to send a momentary 12V pulse to the amp like the original RC-1. This topic was discussed recently: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...080#post406080

[beden1]

Your CA 201 can be quasi triggered using the following method available directly from Classe (listed below). The amp can't be triggered per se, but, if your pre-amp/receiver has a "Switched" inlet, I believe you could use the "Pig Tail" to use the pre-amp to turn on/off the amp. Or, and as Classe is referring to, there are some new model Furman Power Conditioners that will also enable you to trigger components via a remote control. I'm looking into the Furman option next week.

This is the information I received from Classe regarding my CAV-150 - the same series as your CA 201. "Pig tail is a peace of cable terminated with phone jack which will fit in the connector on the back of CAV-150, where RC-1 should go. Simply bypasses main power button so once is plugged in disables main power button on the front plate and could be powered up only through main switch on your power conditioner. I can supply you with one for $10.24 plus shipping. If you decide to place the order you have to call following number, which is our technical dept. 888-978-3577 and they will provide you with all information you‘ll need. The part number is “PIG TAIL”.

[Glen B]

Beden1 have you tried this ? The pigtail as furnished by Classé was only intended to work with a momentary push button switch to manually turn a legacy amp on and off. If someone at Classé said this pigtail will work as supplied with a switched outlet, I say you have been misinformed. The pigtail does not bypass the front panel power switch and disable it but is connected in parallel with it. The front panel switch will still work with the pigtail connected.

A switched outlet cannot be used with the pigtail. Likewise, the constant 12V from a standard trigger will not work to turn the amp on and off. In fact, if you apply a constant 12V -- and at a current greater than 50mA -- the soft start circuit is likely to be damaged. This means no wall wart adapter plugged into a switched outlet then into the amp's remote jack as is often done with some other brands.

To reiterate what I said in my previous post in the thread linked to above, only a 12V momentary pulse applied to a legacy amp will trigger it. The pigtail would have to be wired according to the schematic I furnished in my previous post to accept a momentary 12V pulse from a device such as a remote controller.

This pulse duplicates what occurs when the front panel momentary power switch on the amp is pressed; see the following page from the service manual for the CA-201, specifically pins 3 and 6. All the momentary pushbutton on the pigtail does is send the 12V from pin #3 to pin #6 to trigger startup. To automatically trigger the amp, an external controller has to send a similar +12V pulse to pin #6.

[beden1]

Beden1 have you tried this ? The pigtail as furnished by Classé was only intended to work with a momentary push button switch to manually turn a legacy amp on and off. If someone at Classé said this pigtail will work as supplied with a switched outlet, I say you have been misinformed. .

No, Classe didn't tell me this, but it was the next thing that I was going to ask them when I ordered my Pigtail. I was thinking that it would stand to reason that a switched outlet would work, and I guess I still can't understand why it would not, except you're saying that the switched unit has too much current? Isn't the power conditioner acting the same as a switched outlet when it is turned on and off?

[Glen B]

No, Classe didn't tell me this, but it was the next thing that I was going to ask them when I ordered my Pigtail. I was thinking that it would stand to reason that a switched outlet would work, and I guess I still can't understand why it would not, except you're saying that the switched unit has too much current? Isn't the power conditioner acting the same as a switched outlet when it is turned on and off?

A switched outlet obviously is 120V. Yes the power conditioner is acting the same as a switched outlet when it is turned on and off (unless it has a jack that sends a momentary 12v output when the unit is turned on and off).

With amps that have a standard trigger (turns on when 12V constant is applied and off when the 12V is removed) a wall wart adapter plugged into a switched outlet with the adapter's 12V output plugged into the amp's remote trigger phone jack will operate the amp when the preamp or receiver is turned on/off.

The Classé legacy amps work differently. They require a momentary 12V pulse to turn them on and another 12V pulse to turn them off. There is no way of getting around this. Its really a silly concept; I don't know why Classé came up with it. Choices are either find an RC-1 (don't hold breath) or other device capable of outputting momentary 12V pulses at turn on/turn off.

On the issue of overcurrent, The triggering voltage of the legacy amps is input to an IC that controls the main power relay driver transistor. Apply too much current to this IC and it will be destroyed, then the amp won't turn on.

[beden1]

A switched outlet obviously is 120V. Yes the power conditioner is acting the same as a switched outlet when it is turned on and off (unless it has a jack that sends a momentary 12v output when the unit is turned on and off).

With amps that have a standard trigger (turns on when 12V constant is applied and off when the 12V is removed) a wall wart adapter plugged into a switched outlet with the adapter's 12V output plugged into the amp's remote trigger phone jack will operate the amp when the preamp or receiver is turned on/off. The Classé legacy amps work differently. They require a momentary 12V pulse to turn them on and another 12V pulse to turn them off. There is no way of getting around this. Choices are either find an RC-1 (don't hold breath) or other device capable of outputting momentary 12V pulses at turn on/turn off.

Glen,

I guess I'm still being dense, but, Classe said that their pigtail is designed to specifically work with a power conditioner. I took this as being plugged directly into an outlet in the power conditioner. This would be a 120V outlet, wouldn't it?

[beden1]

I'm going to call Classe this week. I think what I originally was stating is correct, in that the pigtail just serves to disable the front on/off switch on the amp. The amp is plugged into a power conditioner, and is then able to be turned on and off using the power switch on the front of the power conditioner. That's why I originally said to look at the new Furman power conditioners that can be turned on/off with a remote.

I think I was getting confused with the direction you were describing, which may or may not be relevant in this scenario.

[Glen B]

Glen,

I guess I'm still being dense, but, Classe said that their pigtail is designed to specifically work with a power conditioner. I took this as being plugged directly into an outlet in the power conditioner. This would be a 120V outlet, wouldn't it?

I think I've been pretty clear about how the remote turn on and remote pigtail work but if you want to trust what Classé told you and connect the pigtail directly to a switched outlet then be my guest and see what happens.

The schematics I've posted, including the one is post #6 above speak for themselves. The supply voltage to the amps' startup circuit is 12V going to the power switch as per the schematic. When the power switch is closed, its sends the 12V momentarily to ICs 1A and 1B which both drive transistors Q11 and IC60/Q1. Q11 and Q1 each drive the main power and soft start relays respectively. ICs 1A and 1B cannot handle 120V. Even the 0.1uf cap C10 is rated at 63V. If you burn out the two ICs and maybe other parts by applying excessive voltage or current the amp will not power up. All CA-XXX amps employ the same startup circuit.

[beden1]

I think I've been pretty clear about how the remote turn on and remote pigtail work but if you want to trust what Classé told you and connect the pigtail directly to a switched outlet then be my guest and see what happens.

The schematics I've posted, including the one is post #6 above speak for themselves. The supply voltage to the amps' startup circuit is 12V going to the power switch as per the schematic. When the power switch is closed, its sends the 12V momentarily to ICs 1A and 1B which both drive transistors Q11 and IC60/Q1. Q11 and Q1 each drive the main power and soft start relays respectively. ICs 1A and 1B cannot handle 120V. Even the 0.1uf cap C10 is rated at 63V. If you burn out the two ICs and maybe other parts by applying excessive voltage or current the amp will not power up. All CA-XXX amps employ the same startup circuit.

Although your explanation is very welcomed, your presentation to this layman is getting very technical, even though I kind of get what you're explaining. I may be thinking that the "Pigtail" from Classe just offers a simple option that defeats the front power button and circuit, thus allowing the amp to be turned on and off through another unit that the amp's power cord is plugged into, like a power conditioner. Then the amp gets turned on/off simply by turning the power to the conditioner on and off.

This is what I was going to ask Classe, unless you're saying you have seen and used their "pigtail", and this is not the case?

It would also be very helpful if someone from Classe would monitor this forum to answer these types of questions and offer any other solutions about their products. From my experience, they have been good with explaining things to my level of understanding.

[Glen B]

Sorry is things got too technical. I just thought I would follow up with something in black and white to hopefully try to show why you can't connect the pigtail to a switched 120V outlet. I HAVE used a pigtail with momentary pushbutton switch and also own and use the RC-1 Remote Interface. I also service and mod my own equipment, both Classé and other brands.

I've looked closely at the Xantech offerings and the remote triggering solution you need is their Model 599-00 pulsed switching module (around $50.00 retail) which is specified to work with amps that require a pulsed 12V trigger. Page 3 of the installation instructions has a wiring diagram showing how to hook up the module (see the link below). You will need to obtain a wall wart adapter to power the module and a couple of diodes (can be obtained from Parts Express or Radio Shack) to isolate the on/off outputs of the module per the instructions.

http://www.xantech.com/files/manuals/32_599.pdf

[dmccombs]

I have a Classe 201 amp that I use for my rear speakers. I have 35' of Radio Shack 1/8" mono cable run to it for the trigger, and it works fine from the Prepros I have treid it with (Halcro, Denon, Proceed). I don't have to use the Classe RC-1 to do this. My Classe 201 works with any 12vdc trigger.

Are there earlier versions of the Classe 201 that don't work with a standard 12 vdc trigger?

Darrell

[Glen B]

Are there earlier versions of the Classe 201 that don't work with a standard 12 vdc trigger?

Darrell

Yes. The very last production of the CA-201 with 1/4 mono phone style remote jack will work with standard 12V triggers. Amps with the RJ12 phone style jack will not work with standard triggers. What remote jack do you have ? I'm guessing its the 1/4" phone style.

[Srrndhound]

Yes. The very last production of the CA-201 with 1/4 mono phone style remote jack will work with standard 12V triggers. Amps with the RJ12 phone style jack will not work with standard triggers. What remote jack do you have ? I'm guessing its the 1/4" phone style.

Just FYI, the IR jacks are 1/8", and these units retain the RJ12 jack as well. I rewired my CAV-150's RJ12 circuit so it could use a contact closure from the Tag McLaren processor, and didn't relish the idea of doing that again when I recently bought the 201. Classe didn't offer the pigtail option at that time.

[Glen B]

Just FYI, the IR jacks are 1/8", and these units retain the RJ12 jack as well. I rewired my CAV-150's RJ12 circuit so it could use a contact closure from the Tag McLaren processor, and didn't relish the idea of doing that again when I recently bought the 201. Classe didn't offer the pigtail option at that time.

I meant to say 1/8" jack. I'm currently building a triggering setup based on a product available as a kit, the TaunteK TinyIR2, which I found out about at another forum. It has been proven to work with Classé legacy amps that require a pulsed trigger.

The TinyIR2 can be taught any remote IR code and will emit a 5V pulse in response to that remote. While its PIC chip can drive devices directly, the manufacturer recommends a simple driver/buffer circuit be used between the TinyIR2 and load so that excessive current is not drawn from the chip.

The TinyIR2 can be powered either from the amp, a wall wart, or battery. I am working on a variation that will drive a relay and work exactly like the RC-1 Remote Interface. I've already assembled the TinyIR2 and am now going to work on the relay driver circuit.

[Srrndhound]

I meant to say 1/8" jack. I'm currently building a triggering setup based on a product available as a kit, the TaunteK TinyIR2, I found out about at another forum that has been proven to work with Classé legacy amps that require a pulsed trigger.

I am working on a variation that will drive a relay and work exactly like the RC-1 Remote Interface. I've already assembled the TinyIR2 and am now working on the relay driver circuit.

Wow, now that's a nice find.

So I suppose you will will use an NPN transistor to drive the relay coil, then the contacts of the relay connect to Pin3 (+12v) and Pin6 (SW) terminals of the RJ12. If so, you can easily use one NPN and one PNP transistor, with the PNP tied to +12 (emitter) and SW (collector). No need for the relay. Really.

Just a thought.

[Glen B]

Wow, now that's a nice find.

So I suppose you will will use an NPN transistor to drive the relay coil, then the contacts of the relay connect to Pin3 (+12v) and Pin6 (SW) terminals of the RJ12. If so, you can easily use one NPN and one PNP transistor, with the PNP tied to +12 (emitter) and SW (collector). No need for the relay. Really.

Just a thought.

Yes, no need for the relay but I feel safer using it FWIW (no transistor connected directly to SW). The Classé RC-1 Remote Interface box uses relays. Maybe they saw some wisdom in that versus solid state switching.

[Glen B]

Just finished building a learning IR remote-controlled trigger for a Classé CAV-150 as a favor to an Audiogon Forum member; parts cost $50.00. Power requirements are 12V DC, 50-300mA from any wall wart adapter. IR sensor and function indication LED are on the front panel, and barrier strip for power and trigger connections are on the rear.

[bradleyaudio]

I am in the process of selling my CAV-150 and ran across this thread. In packing the amp, I came across the Classe supplied pigtail. I vaguely remember using this to turn the amp on and off via a switched outlet many years ago. The pigtail is not connected to anything externally - it is a short length of cable with shrink tubing covering attached components on a small circuit board. I imagine that it works by generating a short pulse when power is applied to the amp and the +12V on the RJ comes up. The tiny circuit board attached to the pigtail has an 8-pin DIP and a capacitor easily recognizable, and I imagine that this is a monostable 555 producing a single pulse on power up. Then when you drop power the amp just shuts off of course.

Just finished building a learning IR remote-controlled trigger for a Classé CAV-150 as a favor to an Audiogon Forum member; parts cost $50.00. Power requirements are 12V DC, 50-300mA from any wall wart adapter. IR sensor and function indication LED are on the front panel, and barrier strip for power and trigger connections are on the rear.

[Glen B]

I am in the process of selling my CAV-150 and ran across this thread. In packing the amp, I came across the Classe supplied pigtail. I vaguely remember using this to turn the amp on and off via a switched outlet many years ago. The pigtail is not connected to anything externally - it is a short length of cable with shrink tubing covering attached components on a small circuit board. I imagine that it works by generating a short pulse when power is applied to the amp and the +12V on the RJ comes up. The tiny circuit board attached to the pigtail has an 8-pin DIP and a capacitor easily recognizable, and I imagine that this is a monostable 555 producing a single pulse on power up. Then when you drop power the amp just shuts off of course.

Yes, I know about the pigtail and how it works. Its meant to turn the amp on manually from a distance as you've done; most folks are looking for an automatic triggering solution. A pigtail appropriately wired (white and green wires of standard 6-conductor phone cord) to a momentary pushbutton switch will also work to turn the amp on manually. This puts the pushbutton in parallel with the front panel switch on the amp.

[bradleyaudio]

That does not describe the pigtail I have. It does not connect to a remote switch. It does not connect to anything other than the the RJ port on the back of the amp. It contains (presumably) a one shot that delivers a single pulse on power up. This allows the amp to be controlled by a switched power outlet since the amp will always turn on when power is applied. I could attach a photo of the pigtail if it would help.

Yes, I know about the pigtail and how it works. Its meant to turn the amp on manually from a distance as you've done; most folks are looking for an automatic triggering solution. A pigtail appropriately wired (white and green wires of standard 6-conductor phone cord) to a momentary pushbutton switch will also work to turn the amp on manually. This puts the pushbutton in parallel with the front panel switch on the amp.

[Glen B]

No photo is necessary. I understand how the pigtail you have works. When power is applied to the amp, the circuit on the end of the pigtail is energized and either sends a turn-on pulse or performs a momentary closure. All I was saying above is, there is another way remote turn-on can be accomplished with a (DIY) pigtail, without switching power to the amp. That is by leaving the amp plugged into a live outlet at all times, and using the momentary pushbutton. The same end result is accomplished, but in the end, they are both still manual methods.

[bradleyaudio]

The way I did this in the past was to use a heavy duty X10 controlled switched outlet, which was set up to be turned on by the remote when the preamp was turned on. I also bought a Xantech switched outlet that takes a standard 12V trigger, but never got around to deploying it.

No photo is necessary. I understand how the pigtail you have works. When power is applied to the amp, the circuit on the end of the pigtail is energized and either sends a turn-on pulse or performs a momentary closure. All I was saying above is, there is another way remote turn-on can be accomplished with a (DIY) pigtail, without switching power to the amp. That is by leaving the amp plugged into a live outlet at all times, and using the momentary pushbutton. The same end result is accomplished, but in the end, they are both still manual methods.

[Glen B]

Yes, triggered power strips/controllers will work. For my own use, I hate the idea of switched outlets. Its just another set of contacts in the electrical path. I have yet to come across a power strip that I like. Call me purist, nitpicker or whatever you like.

[bradleyaudio]

Can't argue with that - thanks :-)

Yes, triggered power strips/controllers will work. For my own use, I hate the idea of switched outlets. Its just another set of contacts in the electrical path. I have yet to come across a power strip that I like. Call me purist, nitpicker or whatever you like.

[millicurie999]

Hi, all.

I know this is kind of the wrong thread but my question is for remote trigger of the older Classe amp and I think this is the most current forum where the issue of older Classe remote trigger is still being discussed. So I apologize in advance for barging in. BTW, I've already gone through the other relevant threads in AVSforum where Glen B posted his advice but I wonder if my situation might be slightly different that already described. So here it goes:

I just brought a used SSP 30 Mk II preamp with the CAV 75 amp. I don't know if the Mk II is different from the Mk I (which I assume was the model discussed in AVSForum) in terms of 12V trigger option but the Mk II has 3 remote trigger outputs. Trigger 2 and 3 are always configured in the same way but trigger 1 can be configured differently than the other two. One of the option is labelled "Polarity" and according to the manual it means the trigger can be set to send the 12V "pulse" when the pre/pro is turned ON or when it is turned OFF. IF this is the case, can't I do the following:

(1) make a Y-cable with one end being the RJ11 and the other two ends with the standard 3.5 mm plugs. The + and - ends from the two 3.5 mm plugs connect to pin 3 and 6 of the RJ11 accordingly.

(2) configure the SSP30 Mk II so that trigger 1 is set to send pulse when the pre/pro is turned on and set trigger 2 to send another pulse when the pre/pro is turned off.

Would that work or did I miss something?

The other question I have is: May be I need a diode on each of the two 3.5 mm plugs to make sure the current goes only one direction (e.g., when trigger 1 send a pulse thru the wire, it doesn't travel up to trigger 2 port)? I have no training in circuit design so I actually don't know what I am talking about. So please correct me if I am way off base.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[Glen B]

I think you've answered your own questions. What you've planned should work. Yes, put a diode inline with each mini plug. Also, you're making your connections to pins 5 (ground) and 6 (+ trigger in), not 3 (+12V out) and 6. See the attachment. Pin 3 is only used with a manual switch or relay contacts.

[Srrndhound]

the Mk II has 3 remote trigger outputs. Trigger 2 and 3 are always configured in the same way but trigger 1 can be configured differently than the other two. One of the option is labelled "Polarity" and according to the manual it means the trigger can be set to send the 12V "pulse" when the pre/pro is turned ON or when it is turned OFF. IF this is the case, can't I do the following:

(1) make a Y-cable with one end being the RJ11 and the other two ends with the standard 3.5 mm plugs. The + and - ends from the two 3.5 mm plugs connect to pin 3 and 6 of the RJ11 accordingly.

(2) configure the SSP30 Mk II so that trigger 1 is set to send pulse when the pre/pro is turned on and set trigger 2 to send another pulse when the pre/pro is turned off.

Would that work or did I miss something?

The other question I have is: May be I need a diode on each of the two 3.5 mm plugs to make sure the current goes only one direction (e.g., when trigger 1 send a pulse thru the wire, it doesn't travel up to trigger 2 port)? I have no training in circuit design so I actually don't know what I am talking about. So please correct me if I am way off base.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Set both triggers for a positive polarity, no delay, and duration of 100 ms. Trig 1 sense Power On. Trig 2 sense Power off.

Yes, you need two diodes, one in series with each trigger output (Trig 1 and 2). Tie the cathode ends (the line end) of the diodes together. These feed Pin 6 of the remote jack.

I have not tried it, but it ought to work.

[Edit: Drive Pin 6!]

[millicurie999]

Thank you, Glen and Srrndhound for the quick responses. Funny I am getting replies from NY and Oregon because my wife comes from Oregon and we now live in NY. I will give it a try and report back but now I get two different suggestions on the wirings, should I connect the +ve end to pin 6 (Glen) or pin 3 (Surrndhound)? Seems like pin 6 makes more sense. Normally, I would experiment with both but I've read that the Classe remote On/Off relay is a little funky and I am afraid to fry the circuit board if I do it incorrectly.

While I am at it, I found these from Radio Shack;

1N5399-S Silicon Diodes

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062575

Would they work? I can solder but that's the extent of my experience with circuit so I really appreciate if someone can point me in the right direction (no pun intended). I did read the the strip end (silver strip in the picture) should face the current flow, correct?

Thanks again.

[Glen B]

Pin 3 supplies 12V. Its obvious that its is not used when an external trigger (as in your SSP 30) is supplying the triggering voltage. The band on a diode identifies the cathode end. Current flows from anode to cathode. The Radio Shack diodes are 1.5A rated and more than adequate. Triggers are usually less than 100mA.

[millicurie999]

Thanks, Glen for a personalized tutorial and the diagram seems fool-proof. Will definitely get it a try.

[Srrndhound]

now I get two different suggestions on the wirings, should I connect the +ve end to pin 6 (Glen) or pin 3 (Surrndhound)? Seems like pin 6 makes more sense. Normally, I would experiment with both but I've read that the Classe remote On/Off relay is a little funky and I am afraid to fry the circuit board if I do it incorrectly.

First off, because of the diodes, it will not cause any damage to drive the wrong pin (6 vs 3), the only bad result would be that the trigger fails to operate as intended. No need to worry.

Secondly--my mistake. ops: When I looked at this diagram to confirm, I saw the "+12V" label at pin 6, but missed that it is referring to the pulsed output being 12V. Sorry for the confusion. I will revise my post above just to make sure it leads no one astray.

While I am at it, I found these from Radio Shack;

1N5399-S Silicon Diodes

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062575

Would they work? I can solder but that's the extent of my experience with circuit so I really appreciate if someone can point me in the right direction (no pun intended).

They will work, but cost more than you need to pay. Here's my fave diode for such applications:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062576 10 pcs 1N4148 for $1.49. However, they have more fragile leads--so if you are just wiring them in series with the control leads, and inside some shrink tubing (as opposed to inside a little project box), then the heftier diode might be better. If so, could also use these: http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2036270 2 pcs 1N4004 for $1.00.

I did read the the strip end (silver strip in the picture) should face the current flow, correct?

Yes, the line end should be as in Glen's diagram.

[bt54]

Classe CAV150 - A Different Triggering Solution

I just purchased a Classe CDV150 and was disappointed to find the proprietary and discontinued trigger setup. The info presented in this thread was a great way to learn the options. Although I think the Xentech 599-00 is a solution it does require additional wiring and adds complexity to the setup. Using a power conditioner was also mentioned. I have a Panamax and it offers outlets that can be triggered with a standard MM mini mono cable. I spoke to Classe and they agreed to this solution with one reservation. On power up the Classe CDV150 will go into Standby Mode - you would still have to manually put it into Power On mode. Classe sells an adapter called a pigtail. The pigtail changes the default power on functionality to Power On - skipping the Standby Mode. The part is available from Classe for about $29 including shipping. This solution is a no brainer that anyone can install.

[Glen B]

Yes, we know about the pigtail. It was mentioned in another thread a few months ago. Thanks.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=492494&postcount=15

[jliuodonto]

Hi Glen,
I have a Classe CAV-150. I was wondering if you could make that IR trigger for me and the cost.

Best
Jimmy

[Glen B]

I can squeeze a build into my schedule. I will have to order some of the parts though. The earliest I can ship is 2-3 weeks. Won't the Classé pigtail work for you ? Send me a PM, lets discuss.

[jliuodonto]

Thanks Glen for all your attention.
The trigger you made works perfectcly with the Classe CAV-150! It`s the best solution I could have had!!!!

Best
Jimmy