Ca-5100 Vs Ca-5200

[rompower]

Anyone can comment on those? :P
Can't get a dealer that keep 'em both to compare side by side

Also need to know if CDP-102 or DISC Transport from Classé is the best, sale's representative @ classé said it would be better to digitally transfert the signal to ssp-800 since decoder is better than cdp-102... any though?



Thanks

Speakers: B&W 803D
Pre/pro: SSP-800 (coming in few weeks)

[wettou]

Anyone can comment on those? :P
Can't get a dealer that keep 'em both to compare side by side

CA-5200 vs CA-5100

For my three 802D and two 802 the CA-5200 worked much better the sound was more open I am thinking of adding an other one so I can bi-amp. To double the volume requires roughly a 6dB increase, which is equivalent to 4 times the power!

This means that for 100W I would need an 400W amp ouch!


Just so you know:

How Much Power Is Enough?
By Mike Wood • April, 2002 Determining amplifier-power requirements for your home theater system. Power output is often the biggest selling point for receivers and standalone amplifiers. Bells and whistles aside, you can often spend a lot less money for an amplifier or receiver that has a lot less power. While there are several factors that influence an amplifier's sound quality, we're not going to go into many of them in this article. We're going to focus on power. Ideally, an amplifier should be rated with low distortion, measured over the entire audible frequency range and with all channels driven. You should always listen to an amplifier before you purchase it. Whether you should test the 60-watt model or the 150-watt version depends on many factors, including your listening environment, the speakers you'll be using with it, and your listening habits.

For starters, it's important to understand that the perception of loudness is logarithmic. All things being equal, when you double the amount of power that you feed to your speakers, you get a 3-decibel increase in the sound pressure level at the output: 3 dB is considered to be a noticeable difference in volume. A 10-dB increase is twice as loud. Therefore, the difference between 1 and 2 watts is equal to the difference between 10 and 20 watts—likewise for 100 and 200 watts. So, the next time a salesman tries to tell you that you should step up from a 50-watt receiver to a 75-watt receiver, keep in mind that the change in amplifier power will barely create a noticeable increase in volume.

With that in mind, you want to determine how loud you like to listen to movies and music. In reality, most people don't listen to music, or even movies, all that loud. Figure 1 is a listing of various sounds and their relative sound pressure level (SPL). Typical listening levels range between 80 and 90 dB. Figure 2 is OSHA's standards for preventing hearing damage. No matter how loud you like your music, listening to it at a constant 115-dB level will permanently damage your hearing within 15 minutes. Most rock concerts are well into this range.

If you want to create a home theater system that can play at theater-reference levels, you should follow the home THX program's advice and try to achieve a peak of 105 dB. This is also the peak for the five main channels of a Dolby Digital soundtrack. The LFE track can play louder: 115 dB. Again, these are peak, not constant, levels. THX's substantial research with actual program material showed that the most demanding channels were, in descending order, the subwoofer, the center channel, the left and right channels (equally), and the surround channels.

You can start to figure out how much power you need by looking at your speakers' impedance and sensitivity ratings. First, most amplifiers are rated into an 8-ohm load. "Yes B&W are at 8 ohm". While most speakers are also rated with a nominal 8-ohm impedance, this rating is more of a mean, or an average. Speakers will often dip well below 8 ohms, particularly at low frequencies. THX-certified speakers are often rated at only 4 ohms. Halving the impedance draws twice as much current, and the amplifier ideally should deliver twice as many watts to keep up. For the sake of this article, we're assuming that you're using 8-ohm speakers and that the amplifiers you're comparing have adequate current capabilities.

Speaker sensitivity is a more-telling number. Sensitivity is often rated with 1 watt (or, more precisely by some manufacturers and in our testing lab, as 2.83 volts) of power and measured at a distance of 1 meter (about 3.3 feet). An average speaker may be rated at 88 dB SPL. Obviously, if you don't listen to music very loud, you won't need much more than a few watts to power a small room with more than enough sound (see figure 3). Music and movie soundtracks are extremely dynamic, though. Even at low listening levels, peaks can quickly require significant power to prevent distortion or clipping. A less-sensitive speaker may not be able to achieve a home theater system's output demands before you reach the speaker's limits.

It would seem, though, that—with an average speaker—you could get away with a mere 64 watts to achieve the theater-reference level for the main channels. This doesn't seem like all that much but also doesn't take into account room acoustics or the speaker's distance to the listener. For starters, if you're twice the distance from the speaker (2 meters or about 6.6 feet), sound will drop off by as much as 6 dB. Since the sound will reinforce itself by reflecting off of nearby walls, the floor, and the ceiling, you may only lose 4 dB or so. This still requires twice the power. The actual amount of attenuation is difficult to predict and is based partly on your room's absorption characteristics. If your room has thick carpet, heavy drapes, and big, plush sofas, there will be more absorption, so your system will require more power.

In some cases, like with subwoofers, you can use the room to your advantage. My Boston Acoustics THX subwoofers have a sensitivity of about 90 dB. (Note: Most powered subwoofers probably don't list the speaker sensitivity, since they have their own amplifier. They should list the speaker/amp combination's output, however.) When I factor in my distance from the subs and the desired 115-dB output level, I should need somewhere in the vicinity of 4,000 watts of power. Even if I could buy an amplifier with that much power, the sub's power handling is only about 150 watts, which means that the driver would likely launch itself into my neighbor's backyard before it would reach the desired output level (assuming my wife, cats, or neighbor would even allow that).

There are a few options, though. Of course, I could buy a more-sensitive subwoofer. A sub with a sensitivity of 93 dB would cut my power requirement in half. Moving the sub closer to a room boundary (putting it on the floor) augments the output by 3 dB, which in turn requires less power. Proximity to two boundaries, the floor and the wall, should garner a 6-dB increase in output. Corner placement (three boundaries) should increase the level by about 9 dB. These increases are theoretical; in practice, the increases are generally somewhat less. Still, this would save substantial power, but it may come at a sacrifice to frequency response, depending on room modes (a topic for a different article). Last but not least, I could add a second subwoofer, which increases the level another 6 dB. The difference in cost between a 500-watt amp and a 150-watt one may be greater than just adding a second sub, assuming that the former is even possible.

Again, you could just follow the THX camp's advice. THX certifies amplifiers at a given voltage with all channels driven for a specific period of time. Using voltage, instead of wattage, ensures that the amplifier will deliver adequate current at different impedance levels. The specification also assumes that the amp is driving THX speakers (a 4-ohm load) in a 3,000-cubic-foot room and takes into account the actual program-material demands mentioned above. The spec for standalone amplifiers is 28.3 volts or 100 watts into 8 ohms. Integrated products, such as receivers, must provide at least 26.1 volts (85 watts) for the front three channels and 20 volts (50 watts) into each surround channel. Then again, if you don't have THX-certified speakers or your room isn't 3,000 cubic feet, your demands may be different. Keep in mind that these specifications are for reference volume levels, something that only the sound engineers themselves actually listen to.

Determining amplifier-power requirements isn't an exact science, nor is it total voodoo. It is, however, somewhat of a juggling act between the desired output, your speakers' capabilities, and the room the speakers will play in. There are other things to consider when you choose an amplifier, as well, including sound quality and appearance. Still, if you keep in mind some of the abovementioned items, you'll at least narrow down your options to the ones that will fit your needs.


OK, now we know about decibels, and that 1dB is roughly the smallest change we can perceive. Have you ever wondered why a 100 Watt amp doesn't sound twice as load as a 50 Watt amp? It's because double the power is equivalent to only a 3dB increase in volume!

This is the same for any power comparison: provided you use the same speakers, and the same amp design (more on that later), 60 watts is 3dB louder than 30 watts, 400 watts is 3dB louder than 200 watts, etc.

Likewise, double the volume requires roughly a 6dB increase, which is equivalent to 4 times the power!


For those who are interested:
dB difference = 10 x LOG(power1 / power2)
dB difference = 20 x LOG(voltage1 / voltage2)
Bear in mind though, that there are often other factors that make a difference. Playing in a band with an amplifier that is slighty underpowered for the rest of the band is nearly like playing without an amplifier at all. So playing with an amplifier that may be only 3dB louder (double the power) may be just enough to be heard properly, and make all the difference. Also, when playing at low volume levels, your ears hear middle frequencies more efficiently (so you would need to turn up the bass and treble a little to keep the same tone). This in itself makes it hard to compare drastically different power levels.

This is also why speaker efficiency is so important. If one speaker is 3dB less efficient that another (so that's -3dB), it is effectively like using an amplifier with only half the power. Of course, -3dB is "noticeably quieter", but not half the volume level.

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/109138.html

[Gump]

rompower,

I ran my 803D's with a Marantz 100watt a/v receiver for over a year and they sounded great. At least that's what I thought at the time. Now I have a Mcintosh MC-205 amp giving them each 200watts and they REALLY sound great.

Here's the difference in a nutshell:

Headroom and distortion.

I can run my speakers at a high (but comfortable) volume for EXTENDED listening sessions and it sounds spectacular. No strain or discomfort.

Let me explain the opposite to you. I almost bought some LINN Chakra amps. I demo'd them in my home for a week. Linn rates them at 200wpc but that is deceiving because they are actually referring to 4ohms. At 8ohms these amps are only putting out about 100wpc (give or take a few).

These amps sounded excellent. Very detailed and fast. But, when listening for extended periods at fairly high volumes I noticed that they were bothering my ears. I couldn't put my finger on it at first but eventually I realized I was a victim of the dreaded "Listener's Fatigue" syndrome. They simply did not have enough power to run my speakers adequately and that's where the distortion factor comes in. It's not something that is immediately obvious and that's why you can be fooled into buying an underpowered amp after a short demo in a store.

I don't know if this helps you any with your situation, but in the long run I believe your 803D's are going to make you happier if they have the proper level of power to run them adequately.

Good Luck!

[rompower]

Thanks Gump!

I talked with my dealer.. and well.. I'm not listening to music/movie that loud so a 100wpc should be ok... Plus, I intend to buy another set of 803D for surround channel... and prolly put my HT in 7.1.. so... if I go for the 200wpc, it will be kinda expensive, OR maybe when I'll upgrade to 7.1 I should buy a 200wpc (2 outputs and keep my 100wpc for the center,surrounds and the backs and front one will be driven by the 200wpc...
That way, I'll be able to enjoy stereo music with the 200wpc

Think it's a good idea?
thx

[beden1]

Anyone can comment on those? :P
Can't get a dealer that keep 'em both to compare side by side

Also need to know if CDP-102 or DISC Transport from Classé is the best, sale's representative @ classé said it would be better to digitally transfert the signal to ssp-800 since decoder is better than cdp-102... any though?
Thanks

Speakers: B&W 803D
Pre/pro: SSP-800 (coming in few weeks)

I have not had the opportunity of hooking them up yet, but I just got a pair of Classe' CAM-350 mono blocks (350 watts at 8 ohms and 700 watts at 4 ohms) for my 803Ds. I had been running them with my Classe CAV-150 (6 channels X 150 watts at 8 ohms and 300 watts at 4 ohms). I first used the CAV-150 bi-amped (3 channels X 300 watts) for my front three speakers. With this setup, the front three speakers sounded very good and were not strained even at higher volumes. They also sounded full bodied at lower volumes as well, which is important to me.

In this setup, my 703 surround speakers were driven through my Pioneer Elite 130 watts per channel receiver. The 703s sounded very bright, harsh and thin with this setup. So, I connected the 803D fronts and 703 surround speakers straight to each channel of the CAV-150 which then gave me 4 channels at 150 watts per, and I bi-amped the center speaker for 300 watts. When I did this, the 703s became smooth and very pleasant to listen to for long durations, and although the 803Ds sounded OK, it was evident they were underpowered. Particularly at lower to medium volumes, they kind of got lost in the mix. In stereo, they just sounded flat and boring, and actually, the 703s sounded better overall.

I'll be hooking my CAM-350s up in about a week, and I'll report back with my impressions. The 803Ds will then have dedicated amps of 350 watts per speaker, and I will bi-amp (300 watts per speaker) the center and surrounds using the CAV-150. I am hoping to find that the system will have more body at the lower and higher volumes, as well as sound more balanced overall.

So far, I feel that 150 watts of power using a quality amp that doubles from 8 to 4 ohms, is not enough power to optimize the performance of the 803Ds. I feel that 300 watts per speaker did a much better job overall. I will note however, that my room is large with high ceilings. A smaller room may achieve different results.

[rompower]

Beden what is your room dimension?

[beden1]

Beden what is your room dimension?

My room measurements are: (approximately 39'L, by 18'W, with 24' ceilings). I would classify it as a lively sounding room, although not too bright.

[beden1]

Thanks Gump!

I talked with my dealer.. and well.. I'm not listening to music/movie that loud so a 100wpc should be ok... Plus, I intend to buy another set of 803D for surround channel... and prolly put my HT in 7.1.. so... if I go for the 200wpc, it will be kinda expensive, OR maybe when I'll upgrade to 7.1 I should buy a 200wpc (2 outputs and keep my 100wpc for the center,surrounds and the backs and front one will be driven by the 200wpc...
That way, I'll be able to enjoy stereo music with the 200wpc

Think it's a good idea?
thx

I think if you are tight on cash, that getting the 803Ds is not a good idea. You would be much better off going with the 803S for the fronts and surrounds, and an HTM3S for the center channel.

Unfortunately, the 803D and all of the B&W Diamond Series speakers need a big commitment of quality electronics throughout the chain. I would not have purchased another pair of amps if I thought they were not absolutely needed.

There are a couple of used Classe' CAV-150 amps for sale currently in Audiogon. Two Classe' dealers have told me that it is an exceptional amp, and one of the best they have produced. This amp will give you the flexibility (ability to bi-amp 6 channels to three, or to bridge them as well) to bring enough power to your front three speakers, and then some.

[rompower]

I allready own a pair of 803D and the htm2d

[beden1]

I allready own a pair of 803D and the htm2d

Then you will need to do as I have had to do, and that is to get some needed power to your front three speakers and to your surrounds, if you decide to add another pair.

I have found with these speakers, is that it's not how loud you play them, it's how full their sound is (or isn't) if they don't have enough juice to pull under any and all demands.

[rompower]

I bought the CA-5100... Waiting for the Ssp-800 (ordered and waiting for it)

I'll add the ca-2200 for front speaker.. I guess I won't hear a big difference from front/surround when I'll watch movie and as I said, I'll be able to enjoy my music with the 200wpc... don't u?

[beden1]

I bought the CA-5100... Waiting for the Ssp-800 (ordered and waiting for it)

I'll add the ca-2200 for front speaker.. I guess I won't hear a big difference from front/surround when I'll watch movie and as I said, I'll be able to enjoy my music with the 200wpc... don't u?

I have not heard the CA-2200, and I'm sure it is a very good amp. I guess I have found that 150 watts is not enough to do these speakers justice in my listening room. When I spoke with Classe' in considering whether to buy the CAV-150, they recommended that I bi-amp the front three speakers. That I would get much more out of the 803Ds with the added power of 300 watts per channel (and I did not tell them the size of my room). I also posted an article about powering speakers a while back that may provide you with some additional insight. http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=30067

I'm not sure what benefit you will get "bang for the buck" going from 100 watts to 200 watts per channel. But, you may end up hearing a lack of balance between your left/right with 200 watts, and your center channel with 100 watts. A better option would probably be to get the CA-5200, and then all of your speakers will be at least balanced.

I have decided to go the route that will provide the speakers with optimum performance IMO, and that is to drive them with 350 watts and 300 watts per channel.

[rompower]

Just bought the 5100... so.. reselling it to buy a 52... will lost too much money...

And... going with the ca-3200 could be an interesting way... front left/right and center will be balanced..
I'll keep the ca-5100 for the back and surround (HT in 7.1) I know.. there'll be a little difference with front/back but well... I guess it'll be better this way instead of putting l&r on 200wpc and center on 100wpc.

Life's hard! hihi

[beden1]

Just bought the 5100... so.. reselling it to buy a 52... will lost too much money...

And... going with the ca-3200 could be an interesting way... front left/right and center will be balanced..
I'll keep the ca-5100 for the back and surround (HT in 7.1) I know.. there'll be a little difference with front/back but well... I guess it'll be better this way instead of putting l&r on 200wpc and center on 100wpc.

Life's hard! hihi

If you just bought the CA-5100, and you have bought your entire system at the dealer, and also have an SSP-800 on order . . . I would think it is reasonable for your dealer to let you upgrade to the CA-5200 without losing any money you have in the CA-5100. If he doesn't work with you, then I would certainly take my business elsewhere in a hurry!

[rompower]

Think i'll stick with the 5100 for now... building my house so.. I'll need some money for new furnishure.
I'll demo the 52 once I'm settled and well.. if it worth it.. I'll make the switch

Thanks

[Gump]

rompower,

Congratulations on your new CA-5100!! It's a great amp and your 803D's will sound great.

Keep the CA-3200 in mind for down the road.

Also, you might want to reconsider the idea of 803D's as surrounds. Ultimately that might be a nice way to go if cost was not a consideration. But, I would check out the B&W SCMS 800 series as surrounds. They are excellent speakers and would suffice for HT surround. Keep in mind we're talking about primarily ambient sound for home theater.

Going with the SCMS speakers over the 803D's would save you about 7,500 dollars. That money could come in handy for that CA-3200 later!

Just a suggestion.

Enjoy your new amp!

[rompower]

Gump,

I connected the 5100 with my rotel rsx1057 & B&W 604s3... WOW simply amazing! Connected with REALLY cheap RCa cable (1$ each)... eheh (it's TEMP, don't worry) Waiting the ssp-800 to get some XLR cable.. but well.. back to our business....

I think I'll bring that 5100 in my living room to test with Arcam a32 and arcam cd-36 + 803D..

Well Gump, you just make me wonder what would be the best for surround...
Here's my concern:

1st: I'll prolly start listening to multi-channel SACD/DVD-A...
2nd: Movies start providing more than ambiant sound to surround, even voice.
3rd: Upgrading to 7.1 in few months... (means another amp, speakers, cable, etc)
4th: Room size : 10H x 21-23long (dunno yet) and 14'frontx16'back (no parallel wall)

Any comments are more than welcome!

[rompower]

Gump... think I just decide to go with the 802D... I'll buy the ca-3200 to get enough power to the 802d and htm2d
I'll keep the 803d for surround
good idea don't u? hihi

[Gump]

Gump... think I just decide to go with the 802D... I'll buy the ca-3200 to get enough power to the 802d and htm2d
I'll keep the 803d for surround
good idea don't u? hihi

Hey man, if you can pull that off your all set..... ;x(

[rompower]

Have to demo the 802d first.. to see if it's worth the extra 6k$ but.. this might be an interesting way! =)
brb, gone demo"ing" =)

[rompower]

Well... I've gone to my retailer...
Here my appreciation of the 802.
802 is less boomy than 803, mid are more natural and open, bass is tight well controlled and no any flavour added. For High, barely the same, except not the same height of the 803d so the tweeter are a little bit lower than 803.. which can influence the listening position... Tough... I think i'll go with the 802... and a sub.. but dunno which one yet

[beden1]

Well... I've gone to my retailer...
Here my appreciation of the 802.
802 is less boomy than 803, mid are more natural and open, bass is tight well controlled and no any flavour added. For High, barely the same, except not the same height of the 803d so the tweeter are a little bit lower than 803.. which can influence the listening position... Tough... I think i'll go with the 802... and a sub.. but dunno which one yet

Boomy bass on the 803D? You may want to check your electronics and room acoustics before investing more in speakers! The bass in the 803Ds is not boomy in the least, and in fact, I've found it to be fast and deliberate.

Did you do a side by side comparative audition in the same room with the same electronics to come up with this perception? Something was scewed in your audition?

[rompower]

yes... same electronic, same room same music!

[rompower]

If you want to quote me... or asking any question/comments... read carefully WHAT I SAID, 803D are more BOOMY than 802D! not that they are actually boomy! :P
And besides, allready own a pair of 803D, just want to add another pair for my future HT 5.1... So was hesitating between 803d and 802d...

[beden1]

If you want to quote me... or asking any question/comments... read carefully WHAT I SAID, 803D are more BOOMY than 802D! not that they are actually boomy! :P
And besides, allready own a pair of 803D, just want to add another pair for my future HT 5.1... So was hesitating between 803d and 802d...

I still say something was amiss in your audition. I can't see how the 803Ds are boomy, or "more boomy" than the 802D, as the 802D has a larger cabinet and 2x ø200mm (8 in) Rohacell® cone bass, as opposed to the 803D that has 3x ø180mm (7 in) Rohacell® cone bass. Very curious indeed!

Actually however, I find neither of these speakers to have "boomy" bass.

[beden1]

If you want to quote me... or asking any question/comments... read carefully WHAT I SAID...

Sorry if you feel that I was attacking you or anything, as that was not my intention. I also feel that I have tried to be helpful to you with numerous responses. But, with a comment like this, I feel like I'm back in private middle school . . . which was the last time in my life that someone had the impression that I could be addressed in that manner!

[rompower]

Don't worry didn't take it for an attack !
Maybe it's the accoustic of the room at the retailer... Was just my impression... I'll take a second audition before buying anything... I'll bring more cds indeed.
I'm not english native so maybe it's a way I type sentances that looks like i took it "badly".. anyway.. don't worry!

Do you think the 802d worth the extra 6k ?

[beden1]

Do you think the 802d worth the extra 6k ?

I don't really know at this point. I had really focused on the 803D and the 802D at the time of purchase, and felt that the 803D was a better value for my primary style of music over the 802D.

I am hooking up my new mono amps this weekend (Classe CAM-350s) to the 803Ds. I'm also having two dedicated 20 amp wall outlets installed next week with 10 guage wire. I want to hear what my 803Ds can really deliver with this kind of quality amperage. I'll determine after some quality listening time whether it is needed to consider moving up the ladder. I am hoping that the 803Ds will perform like I feel they are truly capable of, so I don't have to consider upgrading.

While recently tweaking my system in Pennsylvania, I experimented with using straight high quality shielded 10 guage twisted speaker wire with locking banana plugs. This surprisingly made a big difference, and really woke up my main speakers in this system over the 12 guage braided wire I had been using. In my system with the B&W 803Ds in Florida, I am currently using 14 guage wire as an interim step, as I had to eliminate the Transparent Cables I was using, because they were creating feedback between my speakers and amp. The new 10 guage wire with locking bananas should help as well.

If I were to consider moving up the ladder, I'm not sure that the 802D would be worth it or not. I recently listened to the 800Ds, and really liked what I heard from the sheer benefits of their size. The problem would then be to upgrade to the HTM1D as well, and that is going to be an issue with display room and seating configuration.

Ideally, I'm hoping the 803Ds are capable of satisfying my stereo listening with the added power (they already do a great job for HT). That way, I could then go ahead and replace my HTM1 with an HTM2D, and either add another pair of 803Ds for surround, or hopefully B&W comes out with 805Ds and get those instead.

[rompower]

Htm2d is... damn nice for center! Just bought it currently powered by a rotel rsx-1057 and amp by classe (ca-5100)! Really impressed by the classé amp! AMAZING i mean eheheh

Waiting for the ssp-800

Didn't listen to my 803d in HT mode.. Maybe with the ssp-800, i'll be satisfied with the current system but ... I'll need some surround, tough 803d would be great... I'm back to zero! Really don't know what to do eheh

[Classe4me]

CA-5100 to CA5200 upgrade

Rompower, I just picked up my new CA-5200 last night and traded my 6 month old CA-5100, taking advantage of my dealer's trade-up policy. I had a pretty high opinion of the smaller amp but got a little rattled when I experienced some clipping while watching Master and Commander. It's the only DVD I have ever experienced a problem with so far, and it went into protection mode. I'm a bit obsessive/compulsive and things like that just drive me bonkers and cause me to stress. I really didn't think I was giving the amp much of a workout at the time but evidently I was. Maybe there was one too many cannon balls that did it in?

I ended up purchasing the Classe rack to be able to accommodate the new beast due to it's unusual depth. This amp redefines the meaning of "dead weight" and the heat sinks make it an absolute bear to move around.

I am certainly never going to be a candidate for the strong man competition which made it impossible for me to get the amp into the house by myself and most definitely prevented me from racking it when I got things set up. After dealing with the heft and very deep physical dimensions I was starting to second guess my decision as for buying such a massive and heavy amp.

I just unboxed the amp last night and stayed up until 4 o'clock in the morning putting the rack together, and using only the shelves I needed to hold "the beast," an SSP-600, and a CDP-300. I did use one of the extra shelves as a canopy to help keep dust and other airborne debris from falling into the top of the source player. I also had to rearrange my old Bell'O stand that used to hold my CA-5100, other Classe pieces, power conditioner, and satellite receiver. The Bell'O also serves as the stand for my Wilson WATCH center channel. I was very happy with that stand but it just won't accommodate 126 pounds of amp that is 8.75" tall and over 21" deep with the speaker connectors. After all of this, I did not get to power it up until the morning after I got up 2 1/2 hours later. There is, and was, no break-in time on this amp, but I can tell you that it sounds absolutely amazing. I really didn't expect to notice very much difference between the two amps, but having the extra ponies and punch to power my Wilson Sophia 2s into an arena in which they've never been exposed to is beyond noticeable. In fact, I think I will have to describe the difference as incredible! I am not referring to volume level, or it's ability to blow the windows out of the house. What I am referring to is taking 4 ohm speakers and driving them with authority that I didn't think I needed, or would learn to appreciate so quickly after some samplings of Alison Krauss, the Dixie Chicks, and a few scenes from the DTS version of Twister, and a few chapters of the Incredibles.

What can I say?? I am a 46 year old kid that loves all the Disney Pixar movies and love the way they can bring a nice HT system to life.....a life of animation that is!

I had received mixed opinions and statements as to whether or not it was necessary, or in my best interest in having the larger amp and the extra power. I did not need any more volume, as the CA-5100 would run you out of the house if you pushed it, but I was told that it would make my speakers so much more responsive and I think that is most definitely an accurate statement.

I am very new to this hobby, vice, habit, addiction, or whatever you wish to call it so I won't even try to throw down a bunch of adjectives and superlatives and try to act like I know what I am talking about. What I can do is give my opinion in that having the extra power on this new amp and the way my system now responds is the equivalent of going from towing your 34 foot Airstream trailer with a 3/4 ton truck with a V8 gas engine to hooking it up to one ton dually with a chipped Power Stroke, Cummins, or Duramax, whichever is your diesel engine of choice. It makes listening and watching effortless and is money well spent.

I was debating whether to make my next upgrade the new amp or a JL Audio Fathom F113 sub?? Now I am certain I made the right choice. It has to be my imagination but it almost seems as though this amp has changed the personality of my little Definitive Technology SuperCube II that now seems to have gained quite the attitude. I think that my little sub thinks it's a Gotham or a Thor's Hammer now!

If you are on the fence, and the discretionary income is there, I can only say one thing...."just do it!"

[RebelMan]

classe4me, sounds like you are now at peace with your system.

Curious, how are your speakers configured (SMALL/LARGE) and what crossover settings are you using? Do you have an acoustically dead room? Any idea what the SPLs might have been with the M&C DVD?

[rompower]

Classe4me, thanks for the great reply

Unfortunately, I bought the 5100... I had so many things to buy (one of them is 802D and.. wow they sounds fantastic!)

But.. I'll prolly buy the ca-3200 to power FL/C/FR in few months.. giving the surround job to the ca-5100.

Again, thanks for the great post I'm now convinced! hihi

[sikoniko]

how about some pics?

[rompower]

Well.. here the pictures

Living room: 802D Amp: Arcam a32 and CD-36 cable Bis audio type 3

HT: 803D, center htm2d, Classé-5100, Rotel rsx-1057...

Before making any judgement...
Currently building a house so... all you see atm is temp.
Change after moving: 802D as front, 803d as surround, ssp-800, classé-5100,
should be nice tough


Enjoy the pics!

[wettou]

Well.. here the pictures Living room: 802D Amp: Arcam a32 and CD-36 cable Bis audio type 3 HT: 803D, center htm2d, Classé-5100, Rotel rsx-1057... Before making any judgment... Currently building a house so... all you see atm is temp. Change after moving: 802D as front, 803d as surround, ssp-800, classé-5100, should be nice tough, Enjoy the pics!

Cool, I am sure you can't wait until you get into your new home. Does the filing cabinet rattle when the music is too loud. I had glass doors on a cabinet and had to have them modified so they would not rattle.

[rompower]

the room where the 803d are.. simply s****. BIG echo! but well moving soon so won't do accoustic job in there listening at low volume is good tough.. and well.. no rattle of any kind even if I play it loud. Guess it's a Taylor made cabinet! lol

[wettou]

the room where the 803d are.. simply s****. BIG echo! but well moving soon so won't do accoustic job in there listening at low volume is good tough.. and well.. no rattle of any kind even if I play it loud. Guess it's a Taylor made cabinet! lol

Did you design your home theater with non parallel walls and acoustically favorable dimensions?

[rompower]

yeah

17' front & 19' back, 10' ceiling and 23' depth =)
106" projector full hd (prolly the HC6000 from mitsubishi)
and denon 3800-bdci (ordered, waiting for it)

[Classe4me]

quick response

Rebel, Rom, Sim, and gang, I was thinking I was going to skate by today and not work after about 6 weeks of non-stop load calculations, consultations, designs, etc. I am in the HVAC business and tis the season! It finally got hot here and when they ask that stat for A/C and get nothing the phone goes crazy. I so the design, consulting, and sales and have been working until 10 and 11 at night almost every night. I did skate out on Wednesday night and drove almost to Cincinnati to pick up my new amp. I wanted to give a good response to all of you but the office just called and loaded a 3:30 appt. on me.

Thank you for the kind words Rom, I really appreciate knowing I didn't bore you guys to death. I was kind of wiry last night and writing is my release when I can't rock the house when momma bear is in bed. As you all can tell I am very new and very green to all of this. The only reason it even happened is my wonderful brother-in-law which is a retired 20 year police veteran decided to mastermind the burglary of my home last July while my family was vacationing in Florida. The stripped us of nearly everything we owned of value. Only good part (I think??) is the HT upgrades to an entirely different level.

James, I feel terrible because you and I never got to talk like we had tried on a couple of occasions but maybe we can chat this weekend.

I have my fronts set on large, my center on large (don't know if this is right or wrong??) and my rear/surrounds on small. My crossover is set to 70 at this time.

I don't know if it's my imagination or if this new amp has anything to do with a major increase in bass, but the Dixie Chicks Live at the Kodak Theater was punching SOOOO much bass. It was as though I couldn't turn the sub down low enough. I know it's got it's own amp so I am not sure if I just didn't notice it before or what might be going on??

The room is about 21 x 22 and is carpeted, and from 12 to 16 feet back is a massive Arhaus sectional with a huge chaise on one end, wide sofa across the back, a smaller mid section on the "L" and a circular reading chair type of unit on the other end. I know this thing dampens some major sound because it's 156" wide by about 120" from the back to the end of the reading circle. If you are curious about what this beast looks like go to Arhaus online and look up the Durham sectional. It's configured the way they show the featured unit and it's upholstered in a special order microfiber that has a pretty thick nap. It reminds me of a good old, soft, worn out teddy bear to cuddle up on. I wanted COMFORT!!!!

I do walk around to different places in the room and can detect some boominess at times. I know I could benefit from acoustic treatment but I just don't care for the appearance. I have some large windows that have the big wood shutter type of blinds and no fabric window treatments of any kind. The sectional has 12 huge overstuffed cushions and an additional 11 throw pillows to soak up some of the sound and there is a large papasan chair about 10 feet back from the speakers.

Hopefully tonight when I get home I can figure out how to post pictures onto this post and get opinions on what or if there is anything I can do to help the room without resorting to bass traps or whatever. I am one of these weird people that purchase items like this for as much a decor or art form as much as for sound. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't buy Classe if it sounded like one of those $199 rack systems from the 80s.

I appreciate nice things but they do have to look good. I am slowly getting out of my car addiction and moving towards HT/stereo addiction.

Also James, I do not have an SPL meter nor do I recall the volume level I was listening to M & C on but it was less than reference level. I feel like I have plenty of other DVDs that tax the system as much such as U-571, both Kill Bills, Gladiator, and even some of the Pixar DVDs. The Incredibles can rock the house for an animated feature.

I can't explain why that one movie did it but it did on both times I watched it. I will try it again with the new amp and see what happens.

Sorry for the lengthy post that was supposed to be short. I get going and can't stop my fingers. Now I am going to have to drive like a maniac to get to my 3:30!

I do want to get the Classe gurus help getting my CAN-BUS set up. The software and firmware updates are holding me back. I run Apple computers and nowadays it's hard to find any computer with an RS-232 port on the back. I am using a jump drive, adapter cable, and two older notebook computers to try to get things ready to update. I don't want to do something that erased the operating system and have to go through Classe to bail me out.

I am out of here for now and shall return!

Thanks again for the interest and kindness.

[Nolan B]

I have a question regarding heat and the 5100. My RMB 1077 is having some issues and may need to be replaced. By luck of the gods my dealer has a 1 year old 5100 I may be able to upgrade to by trading in my 1077. My main concern however is heat. The 5100 woud have to be placed in a cabinet that is enclosed on the front (at all times) sides but open on the back. I have a RFK 100 which is a Rotel fan unit I can place right on top of the amp to vent the heat. Will that be enough?

[hifiguymi]

It should be. Between the open back and the fan I think you'll be OK.

You have XT Series, correct? I don't think the CA-5100 would get that hot running those speakers.

Eric

[Nolan B]

It should be. Between the open back and the fan I think you'll be OK.

You have XT Series, correct? I don't think the CA-5100 would get that hot running those speakers.

Eric

Nope...i have FPMs

[hifiguymi]

That is a pretty easy speaker to drive. I think you will be just fine.

Eric

[wettou]

yeah 17' front & 19' back, 10' ceiling and 23' depth =)
106" projector full hd (prolly the HC6000 from mitsubishi)
and denon 3800-bdci (ordered, waiting for it)

Cool:T Pictures whe you have them!

[rompower]

~2-3 months...
But.. I'll forgot the non parallel walls, I heard this is a real pain to remove stationary waves...

so.. 17.5 wide, 9.5 H and 23depth

And to close the book on this thread, I bought the ca-5100 and added a CA-3200 for the front....