Auto-calibration

[merlinus]

Is this necessary, given that my surround speakers need to be placed a fair distance behind the listening/viewing position due to room constraints?

And if not, how can I then easily calibrate the speakers in terms of sound volume?

I just learned from RebelMan that the new Classe SSP-800, which I have on order, will not have this feature, even though it is included in both the much less expensive SSP-300 and SSP-600.

And PEQ for the 800 will require an acoustician!

Frankly, this seems outrageous.

[sikoniko]

You can always go to RatShack and buy a calibration meter. Personally, I always like to check the auto-calibration function anyways. I've had proc's and receivers that did not calibrate properly.

I don't see this as a deal breaker.

As far as the EQ goes, realistically, it is best to start with treating a room anyways. The less "tweaking" on the settings, the better off you are. I think Classe is just putting it in the unit for people who think the lack of this feature would be a deal breaker for.

[merlinus]

Thanks for the info and encouragement! I heard from RebelMan who also explained how to calibrate the speakers manually.

So I will continue the wait for the SSP-800, as planned.

Unfortunately with an open-on-two-sides and 15-foot high wood ceiling living room, treatment would be very challenging.

[sc2]

Maybe a few trees!

[wettou]

Unfortunately the SSP-800 will have no automatic calibration, so we are on our own but we can get professional calibration starting at $400 for basic calibration up to sky is the limit.

Here is an option get your room checked by Rives Audio they can make great suggestions.

Classé said that Audysey Multi EQ and the likes are not working properly!! I think it is more an issue of paying licensing fees to THX, Audysey and the like, rather than incorporating very good technologies. It is called maximizing profitability.

That is very unfortunate as they charge a premium for their products, but let's not forget that this is the same for all luxury products we all buy names

[RebelMan]

Classé said that Audysey Multi EQ and the likes are not working properly!! I think it is more an issue of paying licensing fees to THX, Audysey and the like, rather than incorporating very good technologies. It is called maximizing profitability.

That's an invalid assumption.

If Classe' wanted to incorporate THX they could have as they did in previous generations and pass on the costs to the consumer. Remember the SSP-800 was originally going to sell for $10-$12K (minus THX) and then it dropped to $8K.

Licensing fee's had nothing to do with excluding THX from the SSP-800. However, the inclusion of Dolby ProLogic IIx, which was not available before, superseded THX thereby eliminating any post processing redundancy.

Classe' spent a lot of time testing Audyssey in the lab and found that it doesn't work. The results are supported by people (consumers) in the field that have tried it too.

People that are genuinely interested in high sound quality are not going to put their priorities on features.

[wettou]

I am curious about some of your statements, you say that Classé spent a lot of time testing Audysey and yet you don't work for Classé so are you going by what you are told from Classé?

There are fundamental economics, Classé needs to show strong profitability and finance is now driven by B&W.

I don't understand why Classé has to cut corners and not incorporate these features.

When you see that companies like Oppo are able to incorporate technology like VRS™ by Anchor Bay Video Processing in their latest DVD player and offer it at $399 vs other companies that offer the same thing for $5000. And by the way Oppo is part of a very large Chinese company, I think that is why a lot American, European and Canadian companies have lost the battle when it comes to electronics!!

They don't' invent any thing thy just repackage it with nice looking boxes mind you, that even I am willing to pay for.

[hifiguymi]

wettou,

Have you ever listened to a system that used Audyssey (like a Denon receiver/processor) and tried it with the Audyssey on then off?

Eric

[wettou]

To be honest I never did, so I don't know if I am missing anything?

[hifiguymi]

The reason I ask is I don't really like it. I would say it's less than 10% of the systems I've sold and set up where I like the Audyssey on more than off. The imaging suffers big time and the overall sound is much thinner with it on. You should try to listen to a system and see for yourself. I don't think you will want it after hearing it.

Eric

[Kal Rubinson]

The reason I ask is I don't really like it. I would say it's less than 10% of the systems I've sold and set up where I like the Audyssey on more than off. The imaging suffers big time and the overall sound is much thinner with it on. You should try to listen to a system and see for yourself. I don't think you will want it after hearing it.
Eric

My feelings about it are different although it is far from perfect. I have experienced the same negative effects as you describe but they were the result of imperfect procedures and were corrected with additional work. IMHO, the greatest flaw in Audyssey is the implication, given by almost all manufacturers who use it, that it is simple and always accomplished with one casual run.

However, I will point out that one can add Audyssey to any system if one really wants it.

Kal

[wettou]

Yes you can add Audyssey for $2500 for the unit plus professional calibration $1000 at least. Seems a bit pricey.

Better of using engineering design for the room such as the ones offered by Rives Audio and the like.

[Kal Rubinson]

Yes you can add Audyssey for $2500 for the unit plus professional calibration $1000 at least. Seems a bit pricey.

Better of using engineering design for the room such as the ones offered by Rives Audio and the like.

I think it is highly questionable to consider one superior to the other without considering the differences in their implimentations and applications. As for cost, getting a PARC system for multiple channels is much more expensive.

Kal

[wettou]

True one has to consider everything, I was not talking about PARC I was talking about having the room engineered so it sounds better.

[Kal Rubinson]

True one has to consider everything, I was not talking about PARC I was talking about having the room engineered so it sounds better.

OK. No argument with that. Correct construction, treatment and setup are primary. EQ is a commonly necessary adjunct.

[wettou]

Have you heard demonstrations of Lyngdorf's digital room correction components?

And what do you think of them are they worth the investment, do you think it could improve the Classé SSP-800

[Kal Rubinson]

Have you heard demonstrations of Lyngdorf's digital room correction components?

I have and I expect to try one at home soon.

[wettou]

Hello Kal

So what is your take is it worth it?

[Kal Rubinson]

Hello Kal

So what is your take is it worth it?

???? I don't have it yet!!!! It was effective at the demo but I saw some issues which I will have to pursue when I have it in house.

Kal

[RebelMan]

It was effective at the demo but I saw some issues...

At CES? I missed it but heard that it was impressive considering.

[Kal Rubinson]

At CES? I missed it but heard that it was impressive considering.

Yup. Impressive considering.

Kal

[wettou]

Kal,

When do you anticipate reviewing it?

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal,

When do you anticipate reviewing it?

Shortly after they send it to me. :W

They estimated Q2/2008 at CES.

Kal

[NonSense]

This was a timely thread.

I was able to have a demonstration of the Lyngdorf system at the FSI in Montreal this past weekend. It is impossible to have a critical listening session at one of these events, but I was impressed with the results it made on their system. They were using all their own electronics including their dipole DP-1 speakers. (They did have a MacIntosh music server, but was not used in this particular demonstration) As you can imagine the rooms are terrible as they are just hotel rooms with the beds removed. There was some treatment behind the system to cover the windows, but none on the walls. The placement of the speakers were generally not ideal as they were close to the far wall and at either side of their gear. No treatment on the rest of the walls. With the correction off, the bass was very strong and muddy. With the correction on, the clarity of the music was much better. I'm not sure if there was any improvement aside from a better balance of LF vs HF. As I said, it's difficult to do any critical listening.

Having listened to this system, it was far from the best system of the day IMO, and others seemed to achieve superior results with better placement, room treatment, (and likely just better gear). It would have been great to add this product to one of those systems, to see if the improvment would have been much less on a better configured room.

I'm sure we will have this answer soon.

[NonSense]

I might add one further thought. Their sales pitch was indeed that the system was designed for those who cannot accomodate proper room placement and treatment. But on the other hand this configuration also accentuates the improvment made during the demonstration.

[Kal Rubinson]

I might add one further thought. Their sales pitch was indeed that the system was designed for those who cannot accomodate proper room placement and treatment. But on the other hand this configuration also accentuates the improvment made during the demonstration.

LOL! I remember when Peter Lyngdorf came to my apartment to give me a TacT years ago, he asked me to push my speakers into the corners so the system would not sound so good. He wanted to make the effect of his system truly noticeable. I declined.

Kal

[wettou]

Ok that is interesting, so as Rives Audio preaches engineer the room before spending thousands of $$$ on equalizers and room correction boxes.

It cost $1000 to get Rives to do an assesment of your room and give you plans on how to fix it.

http://www.rivesaudio.com/

They updated did their web site cool!

[Kal Rubinson]

Ok that is interesting, so as Rives Audio preaches engineer the room before spending thousands of $$$ on equalizers and room correction boxes.

It cost $1000 to get Rives to do an assesment of your room and give you plans on how to fix it.

http://www.rivesaudio.com/

They updated did their web site cool!

Of course. Lyngdorf's perspective derives from his position (at the time) as the head of a large retail chain. He wanted a box that would let the purchased componentry sound at home at least as good as it did on demo despite domestic constraints against proper positioning and proper acoustic treatments. In other words, he was fighting the acoustics. Rives EQ is complicit with the acoustics. :T

Kal (who just took delivery on a sub-PARC)

[RebelMan]

Kal (who just took delivery on a sub-PARC)

For which system?

[Kal Rubinson]

For which system?

Small one with a ROC sub.

Kal