Official SSP-800 Thread

[RebelMan]

Steve, the initial run of SSP-800's will not include the advanced DSP module (chip). Your dealer is referring to something other than the advanced DSP.

[merlinus]

So what formats will the initial run of the SSP-800 support?

And am I correct in that the upgrade will be user-friendly?

In response to your post earlier in a different thread, audio performance is what I am looking for -- features and other such candybars are secondary.

[sc2]

Steve, the initial run of SSP-800's will not include the advanced DSP module (chip). Your dealer is referring to something other than the advanced DSP.

Rebelman, it was an assumption on my part, I didn't remember the name of the chip he told me exactly... I assumed this what he was talking about.

[wettou]

regular format like you have now on the SSP-600 so why upgrade oh yes HDMi and also supposed to be entirely redesign!

It would be interesting to make a side by side comparison!

[RebelMan]

So what formats will the initial run of the SSP-800 support?

All of the standard formats. See the opening post for details.

And am I correct in that the upgrade will be user-friendly?

This remains to be seen. Classe' will reveal these details at launch maybe sooner.

[RebelMan]

...also supposed to be entirely redesign!

Indeed, from the ground up. :T

[wettou]

Let's hope that it lives up to it's expectation.

Also has any one have the new Classé CDP-502. I would be curious to see how it compares with the new Oppo DV-983H at least on the video, I would hope that it would smoke the Audio but am not sure about the video!

I have a big problem spending $8.5K for a player with one year warranty and outdated within a year or two.

[merlinus]

FWIW, my dealer/friend highly recommends going with the CDP-202 for audio (CDs, DVD-As and such) and the new Marantz blu-ray unit.

[hifiguymi]

I have a big problem spending $8.5K for a player with one year warranty and outdated within a year or two.

Classe has three year warranties on DVD and CD players, five years on everyting else.

Eric

[jazzyjez]

Thanks RebelMan for the very informative thread on this new processor. Could you please provide some further details on its video features? I realize that the emphasis of this device is in its audio capabilities, and I note your comment in the comparison with the Denon unit and the HQV chip. Nevertheless, since it does have analog inputs, it begs the question (for me): does it support frame rate conversion? E.g. if I feed it a 576i/50 (PAL) signal, can it output it (via HDMI) as 1080i-or-p/60, and alternatively, could it output it as 480/60 (NTSC)? Such conversion is needed when using US displays that only handle 60Hz - sorry I still have some old euro gear I like to use from time-to-time! It appears as though the ADV7802 would be a candidate for this, but it still depends on their implementation.

As a follow-on question, is the unit sufficiently worldwide compatible - e.g. voltage, output format selection - such that if I did ever decide to move back across the pond I could take this with me? (Hopefully these would be user switchable/selectable options, although dealer/factory switchable would be OK.)

As a side question to this thread: are Classé's power amps dual-voltage or switchable?

[wettou]

Any news on release date for the SSP-800, is it still May or are we looking at June!

It will be interesting to see if they provide the upgrade to include all new codec free or charge more money for it?

[stubie]

I've been waiting for some time for a quality pre-amp/processor to come along that will support multi-channel HDMI source. Ever since I got a PS3, that ability has been given greater importance for me.

I read here though that the SSP-800 will have "MCH LPCM 96 kHz/24 Bit". No 192/24? That would seem rather odd, and very disappointing, and would make it almost obsolete before it was even available! It would have also been great if it could lock to 176.4/24 from the PS3, which would be very useful for SACD playback. Having the ability to feed the DACs DSD direct from HDMI would be handy too (the PCM1796 and PCM1792 do have a DSD mode).

So is it really limited to multi-channel at just 96/24 ?

[wettou]

Yes it is already outdated before it even comes on the market, typical of high end companies!!

It would be nice if it supported 192khz/24bit but don't hold your breath. Classé will say that it not necessary same as with the new codecs DD tru HD or DTS- Master Audio and THX Ultra2 Plus or Auto Room corrections!!!

You don't need that 8O

[RebelMan]

Let's hope that it lives up to it's expectation.

There should be no doubt that it will. The Spring 2008 issue of Home Electronic Ideas puts together three mythical sound systems. The Sports Fanatic comprised of Denon and Boston Acoustics, The Designer consisting of Lexicon and Meridian and last but not least the Musical Aficionado combining (you guessed it) Classe' and Theil. Was is a coincidence that the magazine picked Classe' for the audio billing? I don't think so.

[RebelMan]

Thanks RebelMan for the very informative thread on this new processor. Could you please provide some further details on its video features?

No video frame-rate conversions, deinterlacing or scaling will accompany the SSP-800, only switching and transcoding.

As a follow-on question, is the unit sufficiently worldwide compatible - e.g. voltage, output format selection - such that if I did ever decide to move back across the pond I could take this with me? (Hopefully these would be user switchable/selectable options, although dealer/factory switchable would be OK.)

As a side question to this thread: are Classé's power amps dual-voltage or switchable?

Electrical requirements for all Classé Delta equipment is fixed at the factory which the manufacturer can reconfigure for changes in domestics.

[RebelMan]

Any news on release date for the SSP-800, is it still May or are we looking at June!

It will be interesting to see if they provide the upgrade to include all new codec free or charge more money for it?

Still May. Upgrades costs TBD.

[RebelMan]

So is it really limited to multi-channel at just 96/24 ?

Yes, but I am unaware of any Blu-ray title that comes close to this figure. Hires audio sources like SACD can breach this figure but is generally limited to two-channels and it rarely happens. Furthermore, there's no real future left for DSD processing.

[RebelMan]

Yes it is already outdated before it even comes on the market, typical of high end companies!!

What is outdated? DVD-A? SACD? Or the way movies are mic'ed, mixed and mastered?

Certainly not the SSP-800. It's upgradeable!

[Kal Rubinson]

There should be no doubt that it will. The Spring 2008 issue of Home Electronic Ideas puts together three mythical sound systems. The Sports Fanatic comprised of Denon and Boston Acoustics, The Designer consisting of Lexicon and Meridian and last but not least the Musical Aficionado combining (you guessed it) Classe' and Theil. Was is a coincidence that the magazine picked Classe' for the audio billing? I don't think so.

I cannot tell you how much that impresses me. :rofl:

[RebelMan]

I cannot tell you how much that impresses me. :rofl:

I think you just did! :W

[wettou]

Upgradeable, well we will see! I am a bit jaded as a few years back I purchased an Integra Research RC7 taht was supposed to be upgradeable, only to find out that they never upgraded it but instead created a new model where you had to fork an other $6000 to get the RDC 7.1 :evil:

So it made me realize that Marketing says one thing but then when reality comes they just say sorry it was nice taking your money.

Does Classé has a history of truly upgrading their processors, from what I have heard they are the same they just release a new model and you can just recycle the old one.

The only people that have a true upgradeable policy is Steinway if you buy a Steinway piano, or (Boston, which is design by Steinway but made in Japan) with in ten years you can upgrade it for the full value of your old piano, Now that is upgradeable :T

[RebelMan]

I hear you. The DSP is upgradeable in the SSP-800 that's all. The SSP-900 was completely modular and thus most everything was upgradeable but it was very expensive to build and potentially unstable. Usually Classé doesn't have upgradeable products and the SSP-800 wouldn't be either if their supplier of DSP's was further along with their development of the new module.

[merlinus]

The only people that have a true upgradeable policy is Steinway if you buy a Steinway piano, or (Boston, which is design by Steinway but made in Japan) with in ten years you can upgrade it for the full value of your old piano.

Whilst this is true, Steinway raises prices by 5% annually. So at the end of ten years, the new piano you want is 50% more than it was when you purchased your current one, and that one is only worth what you paid for it originally in terms of upgrade credit.

And that does not take into account that the dollars (or other currency) are also worth less, due to inflation.

However, when after almost twelve years I traded in my Model 1098 vertical for a Model A grand, I was given $1000 more in credit for it than I originally paid.

[wettou]

Interesting, well I guess there are no free lunches! :

[stubie]

Yes, but I am unaware of any Blu-ray title that comes close to this figure. Hires audio sources like SACD can breach this figure but is generally limited to two-channels and it rarely happens. Furthermore, there's no real future left for DSD processing.

It's like saying that you're unaware of any roads with speed limits greater than 120km/h (75m/h), so it's OK if "high-end" cars don't go faster than that (even though cheapo "consumer" ones do) as long as they can do better than consumer cars within that 120km/h range. It might seem like a valid argument in theory, but it's not likely an argument you'd win, or one that would sell "high-end" cars

You're unaware of any current Blu-ray title that comes close to that figure, and if say in 2 years time one is released that is, I don't want to have to ditch/replace some $8000+ purchase just to hear it properly. There does exist however 2 channel DVD-As that are 192/24. DVD-A is limited to 96/24 when there are more than 2 channels. SACD doesn't have any different capabilities between 2, or more channels. They're all each the same 2.8224MHz DSD stream.

In some respect it doesn't really matter whether there is source material currently that needs 192/24 or not, the simple fact is that it's part of the HDMI spec for multi-channel audio, and I'd hate to think a source device may come along that is unusable because - for whatever reason - it only outputs at a perfectly valid HDMI sample rate not supported by the SSP-800.

Even if it was true that "there's no real future left for DSD processing.", the whole point of using the DSD capabilities of the DAC would be to not do any (or do very little) processing at all (DSD or otherwise). Just feed the DSD stream straight to the DACs, with perhaps the only processing option being delays for each channel (to compensate for different speaker distances). Perhaps you believe DSD is dead (and certainly any signal processing in the process of creating DSD titles, is often, perhaps mostly done with PCM data), but many of us have (stereo and multi-channel) music on SACDs that just isn't available any other way (at similar quality level), and we'd like it to get to the DACs in the purest (or least altered) form possible.

A conversion from DSD to PCM isn't a perfect 1:1 process, and so there will be quantisation errors, and/or noise shaping or dithering used/required, some of which can be completely avoided if the DSD can go straight to the DAC. Similarly with 192kHz support (or 176.4kHz for the PS3's conversion) the errors when converting DSD to PCM are reduced compared to 96kHz.

So it's not just about having the capability, it is about quality, and not settling for "good enough" (eg. 96kHz is "good enough"), and isn't that why we're eagerly awaiting the SSP-800, and haven't already run out and bought some Denon or Yamaha product?

In the case of the PS3's DSD to PCM conversion, the choices are 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4kHz. If the SSP-800 can't do 176.4kHz, will it do 88.2kHz even, or will it be stuck at only 44.1kHz, 48kHz and 96KHz?

All this talk has been about, "MCH LPCM 96 kHz/24 Bit", but does this also mean "2CH LPCM 96 kHz/24 Bit" only too?

RebelMan, I didn't mean this post to come across as an "attack" against you. I realise you're just the "messenger" when it comes to details about the SSP-800. But I hope you can understand why for me at least, I consider 192/24 to be important, and direct DSD potentially quite useful (even more so in the absence of 192kHz).

[RebelMan]

It's like saying that you're unaware of any roads with speed limits greater than 120km/h (75m/h), so it's OK if "high-end" cars don't go faster than that (even though cheapo "consumer" ones do) as long as they can do better than consumer cars within that 120km/h range. It might seem like a valid argument in theory, but it's not likely an argument you'd win, or one that would sell "high-end" cars

I was being polite. Fact is, to borrow your analogy, there are no roads that go faster than 75mph. Why put all that power in a rice burner and have no where to go? :B

You're unaware of any current Blu-ray title that comes close to that figure, and if say in 2 years time one is released that is, I don't want to have to ditch/replace some $8000+ purchase just to hear it properly. There does exist however 2 channel DVD-As that are 192/24. DVD-A is limited to 96/24 when there are more than 2 channels. SACD doesn't not have any different capabilities between 2, or more channels. They're all each the same 2.8224MHz DSD stream.

I try not to make it a habit of banking on “what if” scenarios. I look for standards and support those as much as possible. After all, content is king not fancy specifications. I limited the scope of my comments to SACD but since you brought it up, DVD-A is in worse shape then SACD and is therefore less relevant. I didn’t think it needed to be said before but I’ll elaborate by saying DSD has no place because most SACD players output DSD in MCH-PCM which again stretches to the capabilities of SSP-800 but go no further.

In some respect it doesn't really matter whether there is source material currently that needs 192/24 or not, the simple fact is that it's part of the HDMI spec for multi-channel audio, and I'd hate to think a source device may come along that is unusable because - for whatever reason - it only outputs at a perfectly valid HDMI sample rate not supported by the SSP-800.

Well by this statement I take it that you never supported DVD’s then. In practice it is rare for anything to fully support the official design specifications like those originally established for HDMI and Dolby Digital and so forth. Generally other factors we are not considering (establishing standards, feasibility, costs…) come into play making the issue a moot point. However, keep in mind that the current DSP is the limiting factor of bandwidth not the SSP-800. If the upgradeable module fully supports the new advanced audio streams/codecs then playback of ultra hires content would be possible and would again make this issue moot.

Even if was true that "there's no real future left for DSD processing.", the whole point of using the DSD capabilities of the DAC would be to not do any (or do very little) processing at all (DSD or otherwise). Just feed the DSD stream straight to the DACs, with perhaps the only processing option being delays for each channel (to compensate for different speaker distances). Perhaps you believe DSD is dead (and certainly any signal processing in the process of creating DSD titles, is done almost always with PCM data), but many of us have (stereo and multi-channel) music on SACDs that just isn't available any other way (at similar quality level), and we'd like it to get to the DACs in the purest (or least altered) form possible.

I would qualify that by saying there are “some” of you but definitely not many. You are looking at this situation from only one point of view. Like it or not this hobby of ours is also a business for other’s. Besides, multi-channel recordings mastered in PCM are usually limited to 96/24 making much of DSD capabilities lie to waste. Furthermore, DSD was never intended for consumer adaptation but rather the preservation of master recordings at the professional level.

So it's not just about having the capability, it is about quality, and not settling for "good enough" (eg. 96kHz is "good enough"), and isn't that why we're eagerly awaiting the SSP-800, and haven't already run out and bought some Denon or Yamaha product?

If it were only that simple. It’s not extracting the data that matters so much but what happens to it after words that does. There are fundamental differences that factor into the final sonic product, like component choices and implementation, that distinguishes Classe' from the Denon's and the Yamaha's of the world and why we as consumers chose them.

In the case of the PS3's DSD to PCM conversion, the choices are 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4kHz. If the SSP-800 can't do 176.4kHz, will it do 88.2kHz even, or will it be stuck at only 44.1kHz, 48kHz and 96KHz?

All this talk has been about, "MCH LPCM 96 kHz/24 Bit", but does this also mean "2CH LPCM 96 kHz/24 Bit" only too?

Good questions. I know that support of 96/24 MPCM was primarily intended for video sources which will include 48 kHz sample rates and 16-Bit quantization. I don't know about multiples of the RedBook standard but I can find out.

RebelMan, I didn't mean this post to come across as an "attack" against you. I realise you're just the "messenger" when it comes to details about the SSP-800. But I hope you can understand why for me at least, I consider 192/24 to be important, and direct DSD potentially quite useful (even more so in the absence of 192kHz).

No worries, I didn’t see it as an attack but what you are asking for are niceties not necessities. While I agree it would be nice to have the capability it would be even nicer to make good use of it. Unfortunately, for now and the foreseeable future it remains a very niche market. Seriously, which would you rather drive, a hopped up Honda Civic or a governor limited McLaren F1?

[wettou]

SA-CD.net

I find interesting that people say that SACD is dead! There are over 5600 discs available agreed mostly Classical and Jazz but for those of us who enjoy symphonies or the real sound of real instruments rather than electronic synthesizer.

Well SACD (DSD recording) multichannel is a cool format, especially if you have a full fledge 5.1 system (three 802D, two 802 and JLAudio F113 sub gives you unbelievable music : )

Check out www.sa-cd.net

I think that Blu Ray DD Tru HD or DTS Master Audio might stretch the limits

[RebelMan]

I find interesting that people say that SACD is dead!

Who said it was dead? :W

[wettou]

Not on this thread but I have read it on other threads :T

[Kal Rubinson]

I find interesting that people say that SACD is dead! There are over 5600 discs available agreed mostly Classical and Jazz but for those of us who enjoy symphonies or the real sound of real instruments rather than electronic synthesizer.

I got 8 new releases last week alone!

I think that Blu Ray DD Tru HD or DTS Master Audio might stretch the limits

One can only hope so.

[sikoniko]

INo worries, I didn’t see it as an attack but what you are asking for are niceties not necessities. While I agree it would be nice to have the capability it would be even nicer to make good use of it. Unfortunately, for now and the foreseeable future it remains a very niche market. Seriously, which would you rather drive, a hopped up Honda Civic or a governor limited McLaren F1?

depends.. who is making the car/insurance payments?

[RebelMan]

depends.. who is making the car/insurance payments?

The manufacturer. :P

[stubie]

I try not to make it a habit of banking on “what if” scenarios. I look for standards and support those as much as possible.

I do take into account (not bank on) "what if" scenarios when considering whether a device is suitable for me. I attempt to look ahead to what I'm likely to want to use any particular device for, so that its useful life is as long as possible. In this case the "what if"s are not some "pie in the sky" abilities. They're capabilities that lots of (supposedly) lesser devices have.

By your logic, why bother with HDMI 1.3? How much current content has/uses deep colour, or makes use of the full xvYCC YCbCr code range? I think it's realistic to expect that something like xvYCC will be made use of, and there are output devices that can use it, so it's something I'll plan ahead for, hence I want HDMI 1.3. I'll apply similar logic to other aspects of what my pre-amp/processor requirements are.

I limited the scope of my comments to SACD but since you brought it up, DVD-A is in worse shape then SACD and is therefore less relevant.

SACD and DVD-A are only less relevant (or irrelevant) if you ignore that SACDs and DVD-As do already exist, and people already own them, and want to get the best out of them. There are plenty of high quality choices around for stereo only listening. The hope was that with the SSP-800 there'd finally be something at that level for multi-channel audio - something without all the usual compromises that seem to come with it.

Well by this statement I take it that you never supported DVD’s then.

I'm sorry, I don't get the connection. Perhaps you could elaborate? I certainly don't consider 192/24 some obscure part of the HDMI spec (DSD I will agree is a little obscure).

If the upgradeable module fully supports the new advanced audio streams/codecs then playback of ultra hires content would be possible and would again make this issue moot.

If the capabilities end up being similar to the DAE-6D (which does do Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD) then it still won't support 192/24 MPCM, though its specs, like for the DAE-7, do imply it could do stereo 192/24 - but I would like confirmation of that.

You are looking at this situation from only one point of view.

Of course I am. From my point of view, and as selfish as it sounds, that's all that matters to me in this case

Besides, multi-channel recordings mastered in PCM are usually limited to 96/24 making much of DSD capabilities lie to waste.

There are non-PCM mastered SACD titles.

If it were only that simple. It’s not extracting the data that matters so much but what happens to it after words that does. There are fundamental differences that factor into the final sonic product, like component choices and implementation...

It's certainly true that having good clean power, low jitter, balanced topology, a quality isolated analog signal path etc. makes a big difference. But it also helps to have the best source material you can. In fact, the better the rest of the system, the more likely deficiencies in the source will be noticed/heard.

I know that support of 96/24 MPCM was primarily intended for video sources...

I suppose that could be Classé's thinking. I don't consider that MPCM (96/24 or otherwise) is meant to primarily be for video sources. DD/DD+/TrueHD and DTS/DTS-HD MA, etc. are intended primarily for video. MPCM on some Blu-ray discs is likely there because of a lack of access to a TrueHD/DTS-HD encoder at the time, or the expectation that many players/processors don't have TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding ability yet, but they still wanted to show off how much better Blu-ray could be than previous DD/DTS, and also not be out-done by HD-DVD. Unlike HD-DVD, both TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding are optional with Blu-ray, so not having the ability to decode either lossless format would be possible or even probable for early players. But PCM is mandatory, so that was used to provide lossless/uncompressed audio. With growing TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding support, MPCM for Blu-ray movie soundtracks may become less common.

Ideally something like the SSP-800 would do decoding of all DD and DTS formats, since (so the theory goes) it will have superior signal processing, bass management, speaker delay etc. (which of course should be able to be applied to MPCM too), perhaps even just a better quality/precision DD/TrueHD/DTS/DTS-HD decoder (though wouldn't it all just be whatever MDS provide to any/all of its customers?). It also improves consistency for things like decoding volume levels (it's amazing the differences I've heard between various DTS decoders) and application of dialog normalisation, and other format specific abilities, between different source devices. So there is incentive to always use bitstream to the pre-amp/processor. I don't think I've used my DVD players' DD or DTS decoding ever - just send the bitstream straight to the pre-amp/processor, and I expect that's how things will eventually play out once TrueHD/DTS-HD decoders in pre-amps/processors/receivers are de rigueur, and so for video, using MPCM would become uncommon - it would be the exception.

So the use of MPCM then becomes primarily for multi-channel music. Since S/PDIF hasn't been able to carry multi-channel high-res audio (at least in some music-industry approved copy protected form), those who want digital from an SACD player have been stuck with barely supported i.Link (almost always with DSD streams), and those who want full-res digital from DVD-A have been stuck with, err... nothing (without DVD-A player modification). MPCM (or DSD) over HDMI finally gives us a standard/supported method for multi-channel digital transport of high-res music to a pre-amp/processor/DAC. I see this as the primary use for MPCM.

Unfortunately, since the SSP-800 won't (initially) support TrueHD or DTS-HD MA, the use of MPCM for video will be much more common than it really should be. Simply because the SSP-800 won't have TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding, MPCM support becomes a requirement for video. Perhaps this is why Classé would consider support of MPCM to be primarily intended for video (though DTS-HD could be 192/24 for 2 channels and the Blu-Ray spec allows for TrueHD at 192/24 for 6 channels, neither of which the SSP-800 would cope with).

For those of us who would be intending to use (high-res) MPCM for music, I'd like to see it done properly with 192/24 support. The DACs are there to support it. Without it, "The SSP-800 makes no compromises" isn't exactly true is it?

I don't know about multiples of the RedBook standard but I can find out.

They're not just multiples of the Red Book standard, they are part of the DVD-A standard. Like 192kHz, 176.4kHz in DVD-A is for 2 channel only, but multi-channel can be 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz or 96kHz.

Seriously, which would you rather drive, a hopped up Honda Civic or a governor limited McLaren F1?

That depends. If everyone else knew the McLaren F1 was governor limited, then it might not have quite the same appeal.

[merlinus]

I am in awe of your knowledge and understanding, stubie, most of which I cannot even begin to fathom.

So can you perhaps cut to the chase, so to speak, and give us your summary statement on the SSP-800? From what is seems from reading your posts, it is a far cry from the lofty heights extolled by RebelMan.

I personally am interested in top-of-the-line audio -- video for now is a far second, although I do not want a separate two-channel amp in addition to a processor.

It is also interesting that Classe does not support SACD in any of its CD and DVD players.

[wettou]

Well, Classé actually supports SACD two channel in their latest universal CDP-300 DVD. Why only two channel who knows!!

The interest at least for me is SACD in multichannel with my current system B&W Nautilus 802 (three 802D and two 802 and JLAudio F113 Fathom sub)

[merlinus]

Taken from the specs for the CDP-300 at the Classe website:

formats supported CD, CD-R, CD-RW
DVD Audio & Video, VCD, SVCD, MP3,
WMA, DVD-R, DVD+R,
DVD-RW, DVD+RW

I do not see SACD here.

[stubie]

So can you perhaps cut to the chase, so to speak, and give us your summary statement on the SSP-800?

Its 'digital' specs/capabilities are probably the most complete of any multi-channel pre-amp/processor at this level of audio quality. It would be hard to find anything else currently with MPCM HDMI to equal it (perhaps the Halcro SSP200, or SSP100+MPCM upgrade?). I don't mean to suggest it won't be a fantastic product. Based on previous/current Classé products and the history of the engineering team, you could almost assume it will be. It's just so tantalisingly close to what I've been looking (or waiting) for. With the addition of 176.4kHz and 192kHz support, for me it would be next to perfect - even without TrueHD/DTS-HD support. The ability to pass DSD straight to the DAC would just be a really nice bonus.

It is also interesting that Classe does not support SACD in any of its CD and DVD players.

I seem to remember reading that the reason SACD support isn't in recent products like the CDP-502 has a lot to do with the choice and continued availability of a transport mechanism that supports it.

[merlinus]

Thanks very much for the clarification and opinion -- much appreciated. I will not, therefore, cancel my order for the SSP-800....

I only graduated a month ago from a 17-year-old two-channel Adcom setup with Boston speakers and equally old 20-inch TV!

[Kal Rubinson]

The ability to pass DSD straight to the DAC would just be a really nice bonus.

For me, it is essential. :W

Kal

[merlinus]

OK, Kal. So what preamp/processors currently have this ability?

[stubie]

For me, it is essential. :W

I can appreciate that. Without any 176.4kHz or 192kHz support, it does become a higher priority for me.

[sikoniko]

For me, it is essential. :W

Kal

Kal,

Have you been considering this for your multichannel system? HT system? both?

It is my understanding that the integra is in your HT system. is that sort of a revolving door for whatever you are reviewing?

BTW, did everyone see the PS3 announcement? firmware 2.30 due April 15th will add DTSMA support?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/04/10/ps3-firmware-v2-30-walkthrough-dts-hd-ma-support-new-ps-store/

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal,

Have you been considering this for your multichannel system? HT system? both?

I am always considering everything. :B Certainly, a new pre/pro from Classe deserves consideration.

It is my understanding that the integra is in your HT system. is that sort of a revolving door for whatever you are reviewing?

So far. I will buy something as soon as I find something that is worth keeping for a long period. That, of course, is complicated by the shifting sands of technology, particularly today.

Kal

[stubie]

OK, Kal. So what preamp/processors currently have this ability?

I'm not Kal, but... it's not common, but there are ones around with i.Link connections for DSD direct to DACs. For DSD over HDMI the choices are Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Integra or (presumably but I don't know for sure) Sony receivers. I'm sure there'd be others. If you want all that and "audiophile" (whatever that means) grade DAC implementation, analog signal path and balanced output, then you're kinda stuck, except perhaps for the Denon AVP-A1HD (I won't pass judgement on it one way or the other until I've listened to it).

Multi-channel often seems to get treated like some second-class citizen (as if multi-channel is only for playing around with movies and the like and serious audiophiles do only stereo, so why would anyone need DSD with multi-channel?), and so for whatever reason features like this and multi-channel tend to be mutually exclusive. There's no technical reason why that should be.

[Kal Rubinson]

There's also a number of other proprietary links like DenonLink, MHR and something from Accuphase. But I think your assessment of the attitudes is on point.