5200 ou two 2200 on 801d ?

[Ashram]

hello with all, it 's my firt post



I have 801d and I have just sold a cp500/ca2200 unit which functioned well but I would like still better!
I already listened to two ca2200 on the 801d and that was extraordinary!
I thought of taking a ca5200 for biamplifier the enclosures but I hesitate finally with two ca2200… that think about it?



PS: excuse me for my English but I am Belgian ops:

[hifiguymi]

Have you heard the CA-M400's on your speakers. Those are wonderful amps on the 8xxD speakers. The CP-700 and CA-M400 is a great sounding combo.

Eric

[Ashram]

Have you heard the CA-M400's on your speakers. Those are wonderful amps on the 8xxD speakers. The CP-700 and CA-M400 is a great sounding combo.

Eric

not, I did not listen to them yet but… if I takes two of them, it will be monoamplification

and the biamplification is better, not ?

the transformer of a CA5200 is 2,5kva and that of the cam400/ca2200 is 1,35kva. In theory, two amplifier will do better than the ca5200… according to certain consultants classified; the ca5200 would behave better !?!

[hifiguymi]

Biamplification is not always better. You need twice the cabling (at least interconnects if you were planning on bi-wiring anyway) to bi-amp with the CA-5200 then what you would need with two CA-M400's. If you have a preamp like the CP-700 that has two sets of balanced outputs it's less of an issue, but most of the time you need to use a "y" adaptor or use balanced cables for one of the sets of interconnects and single ended for the other. That is not ideal.

The CA-M400 is a fully balanced power amp. Classe makes two different amp "mosules" for all of their amps. They have a 100 watt and a 200 watt and the CA-M400 uses two of the 200 watt modules in a balanced configuration. It has a lower noise floor and has a great sense of ease when running almost any speaker. It will take up twice the space using CA-M400's as opposed to a CA-5200, but it will sound better.

As for the comment on the transformer size, two CA-M400 would give you a total of 2.7kva and the one CA-5200 has, as you stated, 2.5kva. The transfromer in the CA-5200 has to run 5 amps as well.

Eric

[Ashram]

it is true that the cam400 would have me to be listened to but it appears that they are more “rough” that the ca2200 in biampli (a friend tested once)

for the préampli, I had a cp500 and I believe well that I will take a cp700!
in truth, I was left on a SSP600 but the préampli hifi is a cp500 and part HC though very good in my opinion is exceeded (not of HDMI; not possibility of PCM forTrue HD or DTS HD)

[Birdy]

I already listened to two ca2200 on the 801d and that was extraordinary!

Je te le confirme!!!! C'est fabuleux... N'en suis toujours pas bien et mes 802 sonnent tristement depuis... :cry:



PS: excuse me for my English but I am Belgian ops:
Nothing to be ashamed of.....

Birdy

[RebelMan]

Birdy, what do you mean that your 802D's ring sadly?

[RebelMan]

Ashram, I am not a proponent of passively bi-amping as the gains in sound quality, if any, are no better than bi-wiring with a more powerful amplifier of the same make. However, if I insisted on it, I would horizonally bi-amp the low frequency drivers with a solid state power amplifier and use a single-ended triode variety for the midband and high frequencies.

A pair of CA-M400 will benefit you more than either a pair of CA-2200's or solitary CA-5200 will in terms of headroom extention, increased control and lower distortion and noise.

[Ashram]

ok thanks
I had also thought of two CAM400 on the low register and only one CA2200 on midrange/tweeter (since the profit of the amplifiers is similar) but... the price is not the same !

[Birdy]

Birdy, what do you mean that your 802D's ring sadly?

Your french is excellent James! :P

Well, let me just say that after listening a whole afternoon to a pair of 801 powered by 2 CA2200 I have to get used again to the sound of my 802...

Birdy

[Ashram]

tomorrow,
I will listen on 800d:
4*cam400
ca5200
ssp600
cp700
cdp300
cdp202
I will have finally answer (and listen) to all my questions but...
I will leave on ca5200+cp700 except if the cam400 strikes me :P and the ssp600 is enough for me in préampli.

[sikoniko]

tomorrow,
I will listen on 800d:
4*cam400
ca5200
ssp600
cp700
cdp300
cdp202
I will have finally answer (and listen) to all my questions but...
I will leave on ca5200+cp700 except if the cam400 strikes me :P and the ssp600 is enough for me in préampli.

interested in your opinion. look forward to the update.

[Birdy]

tomorrow,
I will listen on 800d:
4*cam400
ca5200
ssp600
cp700
cdp300
cdp202
I will have finally answer (and listen) to all my questions but...
I will leave on ca5200+cp700 except if the cam400 strikes me :P and the ssp600 is enough for me in préampli.

Curious also to read you... :P
Remember me, what's your current configuration? :roll:

Birdy

[Ashram]

nothing for the moment but I had cp500/ca2200 :

[Ashram]

the system 8O

[Kobus]

All the words I was gonna say would have been banned by this forum.

Dealer system I suppose, you said you have 801.

Kobus

[sikoniko]

is that your system or the dealer system? do you have a review coming soon?

btw, the 800's are too close to the walls.. heh..

[RebelMan]

Just when I thought I could get away from thinking about an HTM1D someone, with uncanny timing I might add, posts an awesome pic that makes me doubt my decision. I am getting desperate about my center channel woes folks! :roll:

Ashram, how did the system sound with multi-channel cinema sources?

[Ashram]

All the words I was gonna say would have been banned by this forum.

Dealer system I suppose, you said you have 801.

Kobus

not, it's at a private !!!
I prefer my 801d even if at his place the 800d are wonderful (four CAM400... :T )

Just when I thought I could get away from thinking about an HTM1D someone, with uncanny timing I might add, posts an awesome pic that makes me doubt my decision. I am getting desperate about my center channel woes folks! :roll:
Ashram, how did the system sound with multi-channel cinema sources?

the HTM1D is the best center than i could listen 8O
it's perfect with 800d/801d and the 803d in the rear 8)

DVD track: DTS n°4, Eagles (melbourne), "the big picture" Cincinnati popp orchestra, war of the world...

[Birdy]

not, it's at a private !!!
I prefer my 801d even if at his place the 800d are wonderful (four CAM400... :T )



the HTM1D is the best center than i could listen 8O
it's perfect with 800d/801d and the 803d in the rear 8)

DVD track: DTS n°4, Eagles (melbourne), "the big picture" Cincinnati popp orchestra, war of the world...

Impressive :P did you made any conclusion about 5200 vs 2200? 8O


Birdy

[Ashram]

no conclusion but it's for few day

[Ashram]

I made a listening complete of all the range classé!
conclusion: the CAM400 is sharper, dynamic, tranparant that other solutions (CA5200 and two CA2200 into vertical).

[Birdy]

[QUOTE=Ashram]I made a listening complete of all the range classé!
conclusion: the CAM400 is sharper, dynamic, tranparant that other solutions (CA5200 and two CA2200 into vertical).

Yeah but the price of 4 CAM 400.... ops: ops:

Birdy

[Ashram]

yes but two CAM400 are sufficient for me

[Matt M.]

Hi ash !

I was curious to read your intervention here.

Now I expect a more detailed report on your listening ! :B

Matt M.

[Birdy]

Hi ash !

I was curious to read your intervention here.

Now I expect a more detailed report on your listening ! :B

Matt M.

Teasing Matt????? :P :P


Birdy

[yannparis]

ok thanks
I had also thought of two CAM400 on the low register and only one CA2200 on midrange/tweeter (since the profit of the amplifiers is similar) but... the price is not the same !

You could have a solution with the 2*400 CA-2400 announced by D Nauber.
You will have the bi-amp medium/treble quality, 400W, price ( if it is in line price the current policy).

Regards, Yann

[Ashram]

You could have a solution with the 2*400 CA-2400 announced by D Nauber.
You will have the bi-amp medium/treble quality, 400W, price ( if it is in line price the current policy).

Regards, Yann

where ????

[yannparis]

A&T trade (Russian distributor) seminar in Turkey 10-15 April.

Regards, Yann

[fredBelgium]

Hello,

Indeed this CA-2400 is a super news. I would be very curious to make a comparison of two CA-2200 into vertical against two CA-2400 into vertical.
We thus will have patience.

Fred.

[sikoniko]

I havent seen any further info on a ca-2400... any links?

[fredBelgium]

Hello,
I do not think that there are already bonds on this subject but that should not delay.
Fred.

[fredBelgium]

Super Olivier,

Grace à toi je parle maintenant anglais !

Fred.

[Andrew M Ward]

Ashram, I am not a proponent of passively bi-amping as the gains in sound quality, if any, are no better than bi-wiring with a more powerful amplifier of the same make. However, if I insisted on it, I would horizonally bi-amp the low frequency drivers with a solid state power amplifier and use a single-ended triode variety for the midband and high frequencies.

A pair of CA-M400 will benefit you more than either a pair of CA-2200's or solitary CA-5200 will in terms of headroom extention, increased control and lower distortion and noise.

100% Agreed..!

[fredBelgium]

Hello,

Afflicted but it is not my opinion. With listening the B&W need a real Bi amplification. It are more at ease in this case. Alas two CAM-400 do not bring the maximum. On the other hand two CA-2200 or 4 CAM-400 yes. The result is made feel by the means of a greater ease. More definitions, the distribution as well as the depth of the plans are more realistic. We lengthily made the tests in Belgium over more than one year and this in different auditorium. The result is obvious.
You must absolutely make the test of comparison on line. Between 2 CA-2200 into vertical and 2 CAM-400. The result be worth the sorrow of it.

Good listening with you, Fred.

[yannparis]

I have a question about the x400. Looking at Classe's web, it seems that it uses "balanced" 200W modules.
Is it a bridge mode?
> Does it means that the current capacity is limited at the (already impressive) 200W's module limit?
> Does it mean that the output impedance is doubled?

Regards,

Yann - Paris, France

[fredBelgium]

Hello Yann,
Following our research on the capacity while running of the CAM-400 and the CA-2200 it seemed to us that the capacity while running was almost identical. Maintaining simplest is to make a comparative listening direct. Because in this case it is rather obvious. The 2 CA-2200 moreover have this capacity to be close to listenings with tube with the speed of attack. The CAM-400 are much right, slightly colder. What is extremely different it is that the CA-2200 make more palpable sound space. The relief is more impressive.

Fred.

[yannparis]

Merci ( Thanks!) Fred,

But it is very difficult to find a store having 4*CAM400.

The other solution for me, is to try a baby (dm38) Halcro. the trouble is that Halcro's amplifiers do not like low impedance (due to security concern).

Regards,

Yann - Paris, France

[fredBelgium]

It is true that being given the price of 4 CAM-400 it is worth mien to make a test before purchase. During my tests with the two CA-2200 I had taken mine with me.
In France as in Belgium no retailer has stock this quantity of amplifier.
Fred.

[yannparis]

You can listen to 5200 used in bi-amp. It is not exactely 2 * 2200
Due to thermal concern a 5400 is unlikely...

regards

Yann - Paris, France

[RebelMan]

Alas two CAM-400 do not bring the maximum.

Hi Fred welcome to the Club. I have see your site more than a year ago, nicely done.

I don't question the differences you heard from vertically bi-amping a pair of CA-2200 with your 801D versus a pair of CA-M400's but I do have trouble accepting it based on science. Theoretically, the CA-M400 should perform better at greater demands. Can you explain why the difference favors the CA-2200 and furnish the empirical data you collected in your year long test?

[fredBelgium]

Hello RebelMan,

To start I would like to specify this. All these observations were made by a group of ten impassioned B&W/Classé. At the beginning of our step several among we had decided this to direct towards CAM-400. But the price being important it was as obvious as it was necessary to make tests before purchase. What we did on several occasions over a period of a little more than one year. As regards the theory on the difference between the CAM-400 and the CA-2200 it interests me only little bus what seems to me much more important the result. And the result it is listening. From a theoretical point of view we can nevertheless say this.
The amplifier of reference at Audio Classé in the series Delta it is the CA-2200. In this case it is not me which says it but well Classé. One should not lose sight of the fact that the CAM-400 is a derivative of the CA-2200 like the 3200 and 5200. Theoretically the value of energy of a CA-2200 is almost the same one as a CA-2200 IF the CA-2200 is used into vertical. With the great advantage Bi of amplifying an enclosure. What the CAM-400 does not do which remains a monoamplification by enclosure then. It is absolutely necessary to make the comparative test because it is incredible of truth. If you did not make the test then the theory is not enough. Attention that on certain listening the CAM-400 go further in the low register, but very slightly. On the other hand on globality, two CA-2200 into vertical, go much more loins in fluidity and smoothness. And them attacks are of very first order. I still repeat it but made the test as quickly as possible because that is worth the turning. Attention that in this case I speak only about 2 CAM-400. 4 CAM-400 will be normally obviously higher than the two CA-2200 but for the double of the price. 2 CAM-400 and 2 CA-2200 being them at the same price.

Frederic.

[Kobus]

Very nice site Fred.

Kobus

[fredBelgium]

Large a thank you for the compliment. That always given pleasure. Fred.

[Matt M.]

100% Agreed..!

100%...don't agree ! :B

As Fred explained, BW speakers in general (and especially 800 series) love
Biamping. And passive biamping brings a lot more than single biwiring !
However, the question of comparing biamping with a given amplifier, to
biwiring with a more powerful one is very interesting, and I don't think there
is an "absolute" anwser. That will depends on the amplifiers considered.

Nonetheless, concerning Classé power amplifiers, I already made the
comparison (2 CA2200, vertically biamplified, versus 2 CAM400, on 800 and
801D), and despite the dynamic (a bit better with the CAM, due to its higher
power reserve), and the bass (a bit deeper), the CA2200 solution brought,
on the whole, a better listening result, thanks to a better definiton (because
biamping), and also a bit smoother and more melodious sound.

However, it is only my opinion (and Fred's one, who accompanied me during
one of those listenings). It is obviously possible to prefer the CAM, precisely
because of its dynamic and its bass.
Consequently, I encourage anyone to do the comparison, to make up its
own mind.

Matt