Issues with High Frequencies

[moonlightdrive21]

While in general I am a very happy owner of my new Classe gear (3200 amp, SSP 600 preamp, CDP-102 CD Player) and how they sound with my 802D's, I do have one issue with certain kinds of music/CD's...

The tweeter is emphasized more compared to my old system (i.e., Classe CA200 amp, CP-50 preamp, Sony CDPXA7ES Cd Player) with the same speakers. Maybe the old system was coloring it more or rolling off, I'm not sure. But the reality is that certain rock CD's when played loud are a "little" rough on my ears and unpleasant after listening for a while.

The more forward tweeter actually makes melodic music sparkle beautifully, but is a not quite as smooth with rock. Now one can easily argue that most rock is not recorded well and so a high end system will reveal the flaws, etc. But we all know that there are very high end systems that play classic rock CD's superbly at loud volumes or otherwise.

I don't want to exaggerate my issue, because it's not a dramatic problem, but one worth trying to address if possible.

The only change I can think of that *might* make a difference is changing the interconnects between my CD player, preamp and power amp. I did not invest in high end interconnects because my belief is that the expensive stuff just adds tonal qualities. But at this point, perhaps I need cables that will tone down the highs without compromising the beautiful sparkle and detail in the sound. I don't want to change the speaker cable, because they are high end MIT cables that are actually known to calm the highs a bit.

Your thoughts? If you agree, what interconnects could do the trick?

Do any of you who have the electronics/speakers I have experience the same? I know Photman does not have this issue with the same setup I have.

Thanks!!
Dave

[bigburner]

Do you still have the Sony CDPXA7ES Cd Player? Connecting that up to your new preamp and amp would certainly focus your attention on the new CDP-102 CD player if the issue goes away.

[moonlightdrive21]

Do you still have the Sony CDPXA7ES Cd Player? Connecting that up to your new preamp and amp would certainly focus your attention on the new CDP-102 CD player if the issue goes away.

Sold it to my brother. :-) But great idea - thanks.

However, I *think* I can rule out the CDP-102 Player because my old amp/preamp with the same DVD player and speakers with the same DVD concerts were producing more reserved high frequencies compared to the new 3200 and SSP600 combo.

The reality is that the large majority of what I listen to sounds incredible and much better than my old system, despite this subtle high frequency issue. So, maybe making any modifications to my setup to tone down the highs would be ruining the beautiful sound I am getting when playing about 85% percent of my CD's/DVD's.

Latest update, I am a "believer" in break in because the issue I had has already improved. I have a feeling that after further break in, it will be just right for 95% of what I listen to. I put about 24 hours into the electronics so far.

Someone told me that the midrange and bass open up more after break in, and maybe that will balance out the sound more so that the tweeter isn't as prominent in the overall sound. Again, I am already noticing improvements in this regard.

I hope I am not misleading any casual forum visitors into thinking that the Classe electronics I mentioned are not superb or are bright!!!! Not the case!!! Many expert reviews will tell you that these electronics produce very smooth and silky sound, but very detailed. My issue is related to my unique situation, which could be caused by one of many different reasons such as my room, my cables, bad source material no matter what system you put them through, my unusually and very sensitive ears, the fact that I often crank up the music in a 15 by 20 room, etc.

Thanks,
Dave

[Fife]

My finding is that older gear is colored and/veiled. New gear is analytical and more detailed.

[Glen B]

Its amazing how Classé grew into the strong, cutting-edge company it is today by manufacturing colored and veiled equipment. More amazing is how the poor, clueless audiophiles who bought this equipment for two decades could be so gullible. :roll:

[RobP]

My finding is that older gear is colored and/veiled. New gear is analytical and more detailed.

:scratchhead: Damn, I wish you wouldnt have said that, now I have to sell all my old stuff.

[Fife]

GlenB
Are you saying some of the companies that have been around for 20 years are all "cutting edge"? I don't think anywhere in my sentence did I say Classé grew into the strong, cutting-edge company....by manufacturing colored and veiled equipment. :rant:
If that wass the case, then I have to disagree with your comment. I have a ML 23.5 and I still prefer it over the newer ML 400 series. Many audiophiles also share this sentiment. I think Madrigal/Levinson equipment was better 10 years ago than it is today. I have no problems with coloration as I enjoy listening to it over longer listening sessions.

I think Aragon, Proceed, Sonic Frontiers, Fosgate were pretty cutting edge companies at their time an its too bad they dont exist. Now to say that a company is cutting edge just because they have been around a long time is just silly. I'm sure Ford is cutting edge. :roll:

Soundgravy
Actually, I sold my newer stuff and bought even older gear. At this moment, I prefer the warmer/colored sound of my B&W/Proceed combo vs my detailed/analytical B&W/Bryston combo & PMC/Bryston combos.

Eveyones tastes, values and budgets differ.
Different strokes for different folks. :W

Sorry for taking this off topic but I think sometimes we just type what we think immediately on the Internet and the POST button is just a click away.

Anyways everyone is forgiven. No harm done. Now lets just listen to music and help moonlightdrive21.

moonlightdrive21
I have Harmonix cables and they DEFINITELY tame the treble and color the sound with a super smooth mid-range. Not cheap though. However, others will debate that cables dont matter so.....

[moonlightdrive21]

Fife:

Thanks very much!! I will keep that particular cable in mind, I appreciate the info. My plan is to get about 100 hours in with the new electronics and to try many different CD's before I decide if I need or want to try out new cables.

As an example, tonight I listened to the new Tool CD (which is guitar driven hard rock), and there was not even a hint of unpleasant treble, just beautiful and "just right" sparkle on the top end. Plus the overall sound was fabulous. I'm going to keep trying different CD's and DVD concerts over the weekend (not a bad way to spend it). Will be getting into my classical collection next, especially a few of the great chamber music CD's I have.

Thanks,
Dave

[RobP]

GlenB

Soundgravy
Actually, I sold my newer stuff and bought even older gear. At this moment, I prefer the warmer/colored sound of my B&W/Proceed combo vs my detailed/analytical B&W/Bryston combo & PMC/Bryston combos.

Eveyones tastes, values and budgets differ.
Different strokes for different folks. :W

Sorry for taking this off topic but I think sometimes we just type what we think immediately on the Internet and the POST button is just a click away.

My response was in jest oke: , I am actually just now upgrading slowly from Rotel into the previous line of Classe gear and I love it. Would I go to the new Delta series? Yes, will my pocket let me? No.... :lol:

[Glen B]

GlenB
Are you saying some of the companies that have been around for 20 years are all "cutting edge"? I don't think anywhere in my sentence did I say Classé grew into the strong, cutting-edge company....by manufacturing colored and veiled equipment.

No, that's not what I said or meant, neither did I attribute the above statement in bold to you. Sorry, your post caught me at a bad time today. I was being sarcastic, thinking that you were saying all older Classe is colored and veiled. If you had said "I find newer stuff is more analytical and detailed" I would probably not have give it a second thought.

[RebelMan]

Do you still have the Sony CDPXA7ES Cd Player? Connecting that up to your new preamp and amp would certainly focus your attention on the new CDP-102 CD player if the issue goes away.

The CDP-102 could be the source of the problem, (cute eh?) LOL . Seriously, I do notice sharper treble with the CDP-300(CDP-102) compared to the CDP-202. It's a subtle difference that I think I mentioned to moonlight in a previous PM given his hypersensitivity to high frequencies.

While I am not convinced that one quality brand of cable is superior to another, similar to designer jeans, I have found subtle sonic differences between cable types.

In general silver materials are slightly more revealing in the upper registers and leaner in the low end whereas copper is more dynamic in the lower registers while more forgiving on the top end. I find the use of copper cables more complimentary to B&W speakers than silver ones and I get satisfactory results with the balanced Kimbers, but Classe' chose Chord for some of their internal wiring and it maybe helpful to keep this in mind if interconnects are considered to address some of moonlight's issue.

[Briz vegas]

Don't forget Cat cables guys. I always get edgy when I see cable brands mentioned here.

I am way down the 800 chain compared to you guys but definitely check out some more expensive cables if you only have very modest ones. I am currently discovering cables, particularly interconnects, can make a very significant difference.

Also don't discount the break in process. My Naim CD player took a good few weeks of fairly heavy use before suddenly changing character (to the sound I had heard on the demo unit).

[moonlightdrive21]

Thanks Briz.

I'm happy to report that already after 40 hours of break in, the original issue I had is virtually non existent. :T Can't tell you how happy and relieved I am. It's gone from a forward sounding high end, to a velvety smooth but exciting overall presentation.

Thanks guys.

Dave