Schitt Modi Multibit

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  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15294

    Schitt Modi Multibit

    This will be a run down on the Schitt Modi Multi-bit, test review sample provided by a forum member.

    This unit's claim to fame is being the lowest cost DAC on the market with a closed form HF upsamping filter (original samples are kept, oversampling interpolates between them), and a true multi-bit DAC chip, the AD5547, a 16 bit resolution multiplying DAC from Analog devices.






    The Modi offers Optical, S/PDIF, and USB inputs, with stereo unbalanced RCA outputs.

    Basic specs are on the Schiit site; THD 10-20kHz is rated at 0.006% or less at full rated output.


    All testing was done on the S/PDIF RCA input.


    First, a frequency response sweep was performed, 20-20kHz. Seems basic, but you might be surprised at what I've seen just on that. Drive level was -6dBFS (that means, 6dB below full scale output in digital terms)





    Response is down only a about 4 tenths of a dB at 20kHz, a fairly good result in this price class.


    To get an initial idea of low level nonlinearity and noise performance, I usually go next to 1kHz at -60 dB, to check for idle tones (common in Delta-Sigma converters) and look at the noise floor- to see idle tones or other artifacts clearly, I use a large FFT sampling size and average 20 samples, which filters out random noise.

    FFT



    Scope Mode


    This is not as clean as I would like to see- one of the challenges with lower cost true multi-bit DACs is switching spikes when going through the zero crossing region.

    Here's that 1kHz at -60dBFS in a narrower measurement span, ending at 2 kHz.



    Now, let's put things in perspective, these artifacts are at about -110 dB or lower; we could simply argue that having a very good analyzer makes things look a bit worse than they are...


    If we drop the digital input level further, to -70 dBFS, the situation, or problem, becomes clearer, though.




    Here, the scale transition spikes are quite clear.



    To confirm if the low level spikes are all harmonically related, I repeated this test with two new lower test frequencies, 50Hz and 100Hz. The spacing interval should change depending on the fundamental, and it does.







    The other low level test I usually do is 1kHz sine at -90dB, both for 16bit data and 24 bit- as this is a 16bit DAC, the latter test isn't possible.

    Normally with a good DAC the result is a stepped staggered up and down pulse wave, as -90 dBFS is just toggling the LSB of the DAC. Here we have something I've never seen before... (I probably just don't get out enough...)




    This is a good example of what it should look like, on a Cambridge Audio 851D, which has a fairly sophisticated implementation of the AK4490.




    Last up, let's take a look at the high frequency CCIM test (19+20kHz Intermodulation Distortion). This is pretty demanding, with inputs at -6dB at 19 and 20kHz.

    This is what the output looks like in scope mode, showing how the signals beat together and reach a much higher peak level when they sum in phase (which is why each individual signal is no more than -6dB).




    And the FFT spectrum-



    This result is fairly good- the difference frequency component at 1kHz is down about -82 dB, and the image components near 25 kHz and 38kHz are mostly under -80dB. Possibly more important, there are virtually no side bands around the 19 and 20kHz product.



    Now, this is only the 2nd low cost DAC I've tested on the AP, and I don't have the digital interface necessary for testing with phones or iPods, so It's hard for me to put in fairly in perspective. So I'll let the results speak for themselves, and post results on another low cost DAC sent to me to test...

    I will say that the very low level performance is somewhat of concern, and I've also heard that even the Schiit Yiggy has some issues with zero crossing behavior, but not at all to this degree. For 4x the money, (I paid $999 for the one I bought new) one does get a very large step up in performance and capability with the Cambridge 851D, including a sophisticated output volume control. .
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  • Steve Manning
    Moderator
    • Dec 2006
    • 1891

    #2
    Don't yell at me, but ...... would it be worth the effort to run the same tests using the USB input as an exercise in curiosity?
    Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



    WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

    Comment

    • Hdale85
      Moderator Emeritus
      • Jan 2006
      • 16073

      #3
      So you've heard the Yggdrasil has similar issues? That's disappointing considering its a $2300 DAC.

      Comment

      • JonMarsh
        Mad Max Moderator
        • Aug 2000
        • 15294

        #4
        Originally posted by Steve Manning
        Don't yell at me, but ...... would it be worth the effort to run the same tests using the USB input as an exercise in curiosity?
        The standard Digital interface module on the APx555 doesn't include USB. USB capture requires buffering, data gating, and reclocking of data compared with S/PDIF. I.E., measured performance or subjective performance may be worse. CMRR isolation from the driving device can also be a big issue. (the USB interface I do use costs almost $2K these days). The issues here are of the fundamental issues making a multibit R2R ladder converter work without glitches due to switching the MSB at zero crossing. Delta Sigma DACs get around that, but then they have other issues...
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        Comment

        • JonMarsh
          Mad Max Moderator
          • Aug 2000
          • 15294

          #5
          Originally posted by Hdale85
          So you've heard the Yggdrasil has similar issues? That's disappointing considering its a $2300 DAC.
          It uses a much better AD DAC chip, but it's still something of an issue, I've heard from some people. Until I have a chance to measure one, or see other reputable test results, it's just hearsay to me.
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          Comment

          • Hdale85
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Jan 2006
            • 16073

            #6
            I've been wondering how good the Schiit stuff really is, I wish you had something higher end of theirs to test rather than the cheapest thing they offer lol.

            The real question is, is this better or worse than the other cheap DAC you tested? I'm not knowledgeable enough to tell from the images sadly...

            Comment

            • BobEllis
              Super Senior Member
              • Dec 2005
              • 1609

              #7
              Thanks Jon. Did you get a chance listen to it at all? What would the glitches you found sound like? The Modi MB is significantly better than my Oppo BDP-103's built in DAC. Certainly not of the level you're used to, but better than a lot of standard consumer level stuff.

              Comment

              • wkhanna
                Grumpy Old Super Moderator Emeritus
                • Jan 2006
                • 5673

                #8
                the trace you got for 1kHz sine at -90dB is fascinating.
                V unusual compared to any i have seen in any reviews.

                would really like to understand what is going on there......

                also a few links to explanations of some terms...

                Differential Nonlinearity (DNL) & Least Significant Bit (LSB)

                Fast Fourier Transform (FFT)

                FFT based spectrum analyzers
                _


                Bill

                Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob
                ....just an "ON" switch, Please!

                FinleyAudio

                Comment

                • Steve Manning
                  Moderator
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 1891

                  #9
                  Originally posted by JonMarsh
                  The standard Digital interface module on the APx555 doesn't include USB. USB capture requires buffering, data gating, and reclocking of data compared with S/PDIF. I.E., measured performance or subjective performance may be worse. CMRR isolation from the driving device can also be a big issue. (the USB interface I do use costs almost $2K these days). The issues here are of the fundamental issues making a multibit R2R ladder converter work without glitches due to switching the MSB at zero crossing. Delta Sigma DACs get around that, but then they have other issues...
                  I was wondering if that were even an option in your test setup, never really seen USB as option on most test equipment. ...... I was just curious to see a comparison of the two inputs.
                  Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                  WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                  Comment

                  • JonMarsh
                    Mad Max Moderator
                    • Aug 2000
                    • 15294

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Steve Manning
                    I was wondering if that were even an option in your test setup, never really seen USB as option on most test equipment. ...... I was just curious to see a comparison of the two inputs.
                    There's another Digital I/O module with USB, HDMI, I2S, and if I recall correctly, some Bluetooth capability- the price bump was substantial and for what I'm normally interested in, it didn't seem worth it. By substantial, I mean about $5K.
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                    Comment

                    • Steve Manning
                      Moderator
                      • Dec 2006
                      • 1891

                      #11
                      Originally posted by JonMarsh
                      There's another Digital I/O module with USB, HDMI, I2S, and if I recall correctly, some Bluetooth capability- the price bump was substantial and for what I'm normally interested in, it didn't seem worth it. By substantial, I mean about $5K.
                      Too many other toys that money could go to.
                      Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                      WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                      Comment

                      • JonMarsh
                        Mad Max Moderator
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 15294

                        #12
                        Originally posted by BobEllis
                        Thanks Jon. Did you get a chance listen to it at all? What would the glitches you found sound like? The Modi MB is significantly better than my Oppo BDP-103's built in DAC. Certainly not of the level you're used to, but better than a lot of standard consumer level stuff.
                        When building to a price point, one must be very focused on the key issues considered important- and Mike Moffat at Schiit has some very specific ideas about what is important. This particularly pertains to the closed form digital filter, and to using multi-bit instead of Delta Sigma. One can see from the frequency response that it has been optimized to be as flat as possible, particularly in the bottom end, which will help keep group delay low, but may require using servo's instead of blocking capacitors.

                        BTW, anyone with more than a casual interest in Schiit should read "Schiit Happens: the story of the world's most improbably startup". They do a lot of listening tests, and what I figure is that this is the best sounding DAC they could build for this kind of money.

                        I would expect that these crossover spikes do have some impact on the perceived tonality, as it creates harmonic energy over a very wide band and at frequencies much higher than the fundamental. Their might be some correlation with crossover notch in power amplifiers.

                        Another test that might be revealing is the level sweep distortion such as in testing preamps and power amps. As it was, I had to be very disciplined in my use of time this weekend to find the time to do the tests which I did run, which are pretty conventional ones for DACs.

                        I haven't tested the BDP-103- it's a unit very focused on video quality and performance. The one to compare against for Audio would be the BDP-105, which uses ESS Sabre DACs; I expect it to sound fairly good and measure well. OTOH, one must note that the Sabre DACs are, shall we say, a bit temperamental, and require optimized supporting circuitry to do their best- many early products with them fell short. One that is fairly good is the AURALiC Vega, which I've been meaning to get around to testing, along with my TotalDAC, but priorities and spare time have been the issue.

                        Most of this weekend was spent on my day job, because I had some time critical stuff having over me, and had arranged to take Tuesday off to work as a poll worker in my GF's polling station, because she unexpectedly lost two of her people very recently, due to a medical issue.
                        the AudioWorx
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                        In Development...
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                        Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                        Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                        Comment

                        • JonMarsh
                          Mad Max Moderator
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 15294

                          #13
                          Originally posted by wkhanna
                          the trace you got for 1kHz sine at -90dB is fascinating.
                          V unusual compared to any i have seen in any reviews.

                          would really like to understand what is going on there......

                          also a few links to explanations of some terms...

                          Differential Nonlinearity (DNL) & Least Significant Bit (LSB)

                          Fast Fourier Transform (FFT)

                          FFT based spectrum analyzers

                          I think it's fundamentally related to the midscale glitch this part has when configured for bipolar operation. This is from the data sheet of the 8847. (16 bit version; the 8857 is just 14 bits)





                          The spike artifact in the Modi is greatly reduced from the ~250mV seen here, probably with a feedback cap around I/V amplifier, but it is still present at a low level, about +/- 500uV, or 1mV peak to peak. This swamps out the actual LSB level. And as a byproduct of reducing it in peak level, it is spread out time wise, to much longer than 10ns.

                          The -90 dBFS 1kHz test is an acid test for low level stuff- it's just toggling the LSB! (Least Significant Bit) for 16 Bit data. This is only a 16 bit DAC, not dual mode 16bit and 24bit. It's not normally used for audio; it's application area is precision control in medical and aerospace electronics. It is not used to reproduce audio in those areas. (BTW, TotalDAC's first product was using a specialty AD DAC chip, too, but then he went to his own custom configuration with a gate array and discrete foil resistors).
                          the AudioWorx
                          Natalie P
                          M8ta
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                          Modula MT XE
                          Modula Xtreme
                          Isiris
                          Wavecor Ardent

                          SMJ
                          Minerva Monitor
                          Calliope
                          Ardent D

                          In Development...
                          Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                          Obi-Wan
                          Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                          Modula PWB
                          Calliope CC Supreme
                          Natalie P Ultra
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                          Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                          Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                          Comment

                          • BobEllis
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Dec 2005
                            • 1609

                            #14
                            Thanks, Jon. I wonder how much of the added decay I hear on cymbals is actually crossing spike errors.

                            It would be tough to test the 103, as its only direct digital input is hdmi. It also is a DLNA renderer, but that adds another step making measurement even harder. Rather than buy a BDP-105 or 205, I'll just enjoy the sound of the Modi MB when it comes back until I save up enough to buy something better. I was planning a Yggy, but now you have me thinking about the Cambridge. That would leave a lot of money for music and other things...

                            Comment

                            • DigitalMaven
                              Member
                              • Feb 2017
                              • 36

                              #15
                              What I'd like to know is if my Schiit Bifrost 4490 is a much better dac than the Modi Multibit. Everyone keeps telling me that Multibit is the way to go but I just love my 4490 as it goes deep in the base. Over on the other forum where Mike Moffat posts his comments he compared Sigma delta dacs as Horse poop! I'm thinking that I will wait for another upgrade revision before even thinking about upgrading to the bifrost Multibit...

                              Comment

                              • BobEllis
                                Super Senior Member
                                • Dec 2005
                                • 1609

                                #16
                                Reading between the lines, the difference between MoMBy and BiMBy is the latter has better reclocking. This is just based on the BiMBy product page mentioning reclocking while MoMby's doesn't. I suspect that whether that results in better sound would be determined by your source's jitter.

                                It's interesting to see that Yggdrasil has the same kind of zero crossing glitches, albeit at a much lower level.

                                I'd intended to upgrade from MoMBy to Yggdrasil but the Cambridge 851D closeout price and Jon's review convinced me to pull the trigger there. In my system the Cambridge's preamp mode is another plus, since I don't yet have an analog preamp.

                                I had planned to compare the MoMBy to the Cambridge directly using the Schiit Sys "passive preamp". I use a Sys to switch between HT and music mode. One day I noticed something off in music mode. It turned out that I had turned the Sys down to about 6 dB of attenuation. That was enough to make a noticeable difference feeding an Aleph-J with 3' of RG-58 based interconnect. So DigitalMaven, consider a decent active preamp if you aren't already using one.

                                Comment

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