Some speaker driver measurements...

[Scottg]

The measurements and review of BlieSMa T34A-4 tweeter have been added

http://hificompass.com/en/content/bl...g-dome-tweeter

Nice , but pricey 8O . (..in fact I was thinking upper-mid array until I looked at the price. ..6 of those and the little RAAL. Alas, not-to-be.) ops:



..BUT, perhaps its the wet-dream of Spica designer John Bau (..well, until he found out the price - he preferred frugal-design). Maybe John Dunlavy if he were still alive. They definitely should be contacting Richard Vandersteen.

[HiFiCompass]

Another one Bliesma T34A-4 review

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/BliSMa_T34A-4.htm

[HiFiCompass]

If components means crossover and drivers, I couldn't agree more with this statement. I decided to swap between Seas 27TDFC/G and 27TBFC/G tweeters (yes you read that correctly - fabric vs. metal domes - both with Seas hexagrid covers) and excluding minor 0.5dB sensitivity gain of the 27TBFC/G, when level matched, on certain tracks the B was forward, especially on compressed 80s music and some male vocals. Whereas the D version was balanced and allowed me to hear the upper treble. PS: identical crossover (tweeter only playing).

I confirmed the above with another pair of ears :-) (PS: they were returned to the owner).

For the life of me, with my limited experience and measurement tools and skills - I could not see the difference via measurements to have picked this up.

Only my ears could.

The measurements of Seas 27TBFC/G have been added.

Now you can compare 27TDFC with 27TBFC/G:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/seas/seas-27tbfcg-h1212

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/seas/seas-27tdfc-h1189

[fish fingers]

Another one Bliesma T34A-4 review

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/BliSMa_T34A-4.htm

Hi, did you by chance listen to these tweeters in a system? Troels doesn't really go into any detail yet, I wd love to hear subjective opinions

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[HiFiCompass]

I can't say more than it is written in the review due the same reasons. Preliminary listening is very promising. We plan to design a 2-way loudspeaker project on the base of this tweeter by the end of March approximately. So, wait a bit...

[Zvu]

What midwoofer will you be using ?

[HiFiCompass]

What midwoofer will you be using ?

It have to be determined yet but something from SB Acoustics definitely. The final decision will be taken only after listening tests.
Perhaps, we will start some parallel projects...

[fish fingers]

I can't say more than it is written in the review due the same reasons. Preliminary listening is very promising. We plan to design a 2-way loudspeaker project on the base of this tweeter by the end of March approximately. So, wait a bit...

Cd be a nice tweeter for some of the larger accuton's

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[HiFiCompass]

Cd be a nice tweeter for some of the larger accuton's

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

I'm agree with you but this project is being planned more accessible

[HiFiCompass]

The measurements of SEAS 27TFFNC-G (H1396) have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/seas/seas-27tffncg-h1396-04

[HiFiCompass]

The measurements of SB Acoustics SB29SDAC-C000-4 have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/sbacoustics/sb-acoustics-sb29sdac-c000-4

[HiFiCompass]

The measurements of Peerless DA25BG08-06 have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/peerless/peerless-da25bg08-06

[5th element]

I've been wondering how those Peerless/Tymphany alu domes measure and it appears that they are quite decent. Very similar to the performance of the SEAS 27TBFC/G in fact. Given their price advantage vs the SEAS...

[HiFiCompass]

Yeah, almost the same performance but for much less price.
Funnily, DA25 has a copper ring in the gap and additional magnet but it didn't help him to beat the much older and simpler good grandad SEAS 27tbfc☺

[Zvu]

Still, none of them can come near SB26ADC and it's price is low enough not to look at the Seas or Peerless. It is easily in line with best Scan Speak tweeters regarding distortion.

Speaking of best SS - i'm still in awe how that little D3004/602000 measures. Small flange, extremely low distortion, low resonance frequency and flat frequency response makes it suitable for literally everything. You can put it in a waveguide or use it in high-end MTM with couple of 3"/4"/5" midranges helped by four woofers - Kii3 style - and make the crossover frequency as low as you want moving the lobes lower in frequency.

Since Kii3 uses el cheapo Peerless SBS-160F35AL01-04 i just might try that. It is a bit hard to find but costs between 10 and 20 $ - if you buy more than 500

But, Peerless SBS-160F35CP01-04 is readily available so i just might use that if i don't find the alu cone version - difference is cone material.

[HiFiCompass]

I'm agree regarding SS D3004/6020 - very nice tweeter with very low distortion. It has a lot of way to use.

I listened to Kii3 speakers very briefly only one time at AXPONA show and immediately was impressed by their bass performance for this size!
It seems Peerless SBS-160F35CP01-04 is specially intended for compact size active loudspeakers. I will try give them more time at Munich-2018 Hi-End show.

[HiFiCompass]

The measurements of Peerless BC25TG15-04 have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/peerless/peerless-bc25tg15-04

Very nice tweeter for that price

[HiFiCompass]

Satori MW19P-4 midwoofer measurements have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/satori/satori-mw19p-4

[5th element]

Hmm those distortion peaks at 1khz 8O ouch! Especially at the higher driver levels.

[HiFiCompass]

We just have finished a 2-way loudspeaker project with MW19P-4 speaker and I want to say that there are no any evidences of those distortion peaks in the final sounding.

http://hificompass.com/en/projects/2-way-systems/pharaoh

[TMM]

With the individual driver measurements I was doubtful that it would work acceptably in a 2-way but it looks like you managed to pull it off

Was it a different woofer sample to the one used for the previous measurements though? The resonance frequency changed a little. It also doesn't take much for the kHz distortion components to disappear due to beaming if the mic is placed slightly off-axis to the woofer. Still, the HD spike probably looks worse than it is in the individual measurements because the HD below 1kHz is very very low: -65dB H5 at a low-mid listening level isn't critical.

[HiFiCompass]

Yes, the midwoofer was another, not one which was used in the individual speaker measurements website page. It has slightly different surround resonance frequency. The difference is about 150Hz. But that is all about it, frequency responses and distortion plots are the same. I mean the relative intensity of HD peaks.
I reckoned up that HD measurements for Pharaohs were carry out at angle about 17 degrees (on axis in between tweeter and midwoofer) so there could be some influence of HF midwoofer beaming on HD measurements but on 4th and 5th harmonics only and very little on 3rd one.
The main thing is that there is not sensitive influence of the HD peaks on the overall sound character.

[augerpro]

We just have finished a 2-way loudspeaker project with MW19P-4 speaker and I want to say that there are no any evidences of those distortion peaks in the final sounding.

http://hificompass.com/en/projects/2...ystems/pharaoh

Nicely thought out project! Could you explain more what you were seeing with different port positions?

[5th element]

I'm not surprised that the resonance isn't an issue in the Pharaoh because it doesn't exist! At least not like in the original measurements.

The shift of it, up to ~1200Hz in frequency, plus your xover frequency, offers useful attenuation that helps to reduce its excitation. Besides that it looks far less severe in the driver you used in the Pharaoh than in the one your initially measured.

Even at 2 volts, with the original driver, there was a significant increase in all orders of distortion, this doesn't appear with the driver in the Pharaoh. Even at 11V2 the 4th and 5th orders are barely noticeable. Clearly there's a quality control issue because one driver behaves as I would have expected a larger Satori driver to behave (the one in the Pharaoh) and the other one does not.

[PANDINUS]

Measurements on the manufacturer's page match the measurements made by HifiCompass (3rd order peak at 1.3K at C158-8-085)
I built two speakers fitted with a medium tone from Accuton, the first one was C90-6-079 and the other C173-6-096E. Before that I used Visaton, Dynaudio, SS. And I did not stay at Accuton, followed by Visaton and the SS. Choice is a matter of taste and money. And the sound result also depends on the symbiosis with attached instruments and cables.

[HiFiCompass]

Nicely thought out project! Could you explain more what you were seeing with different port positions?

Thank you

With different port positions I was tracking the spectrum of signal outside of the port. The point of interest was the magnitude of self port resonances at 1/2 wave length, 1 wave length, 1 1/2 wave length and so on. I was seeing at the background level under these peaks too. It all depends on length and diameter of the port, port ends flaring inside and outside, height of port position (actually positioning of the inside end of port) and stuffing.

[HiFiCompass]

SEAS CA22RNY (H1471) woofer measurements have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/seas/seas-ca22rny-h1471

[HiFiCompass]

BlieSMa T34B-4 beryllium dome tweeter measurements have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/reviews/bliesma-t34b-4-beryllium-dome-tweeter

[HiFiCompass]

Audax TW034X0 textile dome tweeter measurements have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/audax/audax-tw034x0-13-textile-dome-tweeter

[olu78]

Are there any plans to review the Tymphany DA25TX? Thanks

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[HiFiCompass]

If anyone kindly send me those speakers for testing then I can say "Yes" certainly.
Maybe it would be worth to make a direct contact with Tymphany?

Are there any plans to review the Tymphany DA25TX? Thanks

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[HiFiCompass]

The measurements of Satori TW29B-B have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/satori/satori-tw29b-b

[Bear]

The measurements of Satori TW29B-B have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/m...satori-tw29b-b

That's ... impressive. The F2 is competitive, but the F3 - F5 were impressively low, even at 5.6v.

[HiFiCompass]

The measurements of ScanSpeak 18M/4631T00 have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/m...eak-18m4631t00

[Bear]

The measurements of ScanSpeak 18M/4631T00 have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/m...eak-18m4631t00

The sliced paper cone from the Revelator series continues to seem like it is best used in the 18cm form factor. Impressive performance.

[HiFiCompass]

The measurements of ScanSpeak R2904/700009 have been added:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/scan-speak/scanspeak-r2904700009

[Zvu]

I really don't like what i see regarding distortion.

Thanks for this.

[Bear]

I really don't like what i see regarding distortion.

Thanks for this.

I think this is true for me for basically every one of the Tympany/Vifa/SS ring radiators. This being the latest.

[Zvu]

I don't have that problem when it is for 20 dollars:

http://hificompass.com/en/speakers/measurements/peerless/peerless-xt25sc90-04

https://www.parts-express.com/peerless-by-tymphany-xt25sc90-04-1-dual-ring-radiator-tweeter--264-1014

I do have that problem when it costs 330. For that kind of money it's got to be much better in all fields.

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ring-radiator-tweeters/scanspeak-revelator-r2904/7000-09-tweeter-black-face-black-plug/

[PANDINUS]

I really don't like what i see regarding distortion.

Thanks for this.

What's the trouble? Do you hear H2 distortion?

[Zvu]

It's not about HD2 nor HD3 - but HD5 at 5.6V reaches -54dB in tweeter that costs 330 USD, and stays -62dB in tweeter that costs 20 USD ?

With that i have serious issue.

[5th element]

It's not about HD2 nor HD3 - but HD5 at 5.6V reaches -54dB in tweeter that costs 330 USD, and stays -62dB in tweeter that costs 20 USD ?

With that i have serious issue.

Indeed me too. Those high order HD products make me think that the tweeter is defective... they should not be there.

[TMM]

If you are referring to the peak of H5 at 7-8kHz, that is not audible to humans; 7*5=35kHz. Maybe dogs and cats will be unimpressed with it . Still it is a hefty price to pay for a tweeter when you can get an XT25TG/XT25BG for 1/10th the price and the only significant disadvantage is the plastic faceplate.

edit: It's odd that it's totally absent from the 2V measurement. I noticed that peaks at similar frequencies are present on the XT25TG, XT25BG, 22TAF/G, 27TDC (to name a few) measurements in varying severity, probably others too. There's a chance that it isn't the driver but instead part of the noise floor of the measurement setup - it's not uncommon for switching powersupplies to emit noises at ultrasonic frequencies and I have the same problems in my own measurements.

[HiFiCompass]

On my measurements of XT25-xxxx tweeters and other ones which have very extended FR almost always there are false splashes on HD plots. I suspect it is due the feature of the digital processing algorithm of measurement system. I do the measurements at Fs=96kHz sampling rate. When I doing them at 48kHz there are no any problem on HD graphs at all but then some useful frequency range is lost because I can measure HD5 up to 4800 Hz only. When I do at 96kHz that effect appears at frequencies equal 0.8 of ( Fs/2)/#HD. I could to cut upper limit at 0.75 of that figure and all would be OK at graphs but not all tweeters behave so way. So I decided do not do that. Usually those peaks not large, have constant height and SURELY are shifted one from another. See for example measurements of XT25TG30-04 for HD3, HD4 and HD5.
Otherwise, if peaks are coincident it says about parasitic resonances. It can be seen from r2904/700009 measurements, HD4 coincide with HD5 at 7k5.

[Bear]

If you are referring to the peak of H5 at 7-8kHz, that is not audible to humans; 7*5=35kHz. Maybe dogs and cats will be unimpressed with it . Still it is a hefty price to pay for a tweeter when you can get an XT25TG/XT25BG for 1/10th the price and the only significant disadvantage is the plastic faceplate.

Maybe I'm misreading the charts, but I'd expect that a 7kHz - 8kHz bump in H5 was being generated by fundamental in the 1.4kHz - 1.6kHz range, which may (or may not) is likely to be outside the passband, and thus diminished in energy, but still within normal human hearing ranges. The bump in H3 at the same location is more problematic for me since this would come from a fundamental in the 2.3kHz - 2.7kHz range, which is almost assuredly going to be at full strength in the passband. Or am I misreading the chart?

On my measurements of XT25-xxxx tweeters and other ones which have very extended FR almost always there are false splashes on HD plots. I suspect it is due the feature of the digital processing algorithm of measurement system. I do the measurements at Fs=96kHz sampling rate. When I doing them at 48kHz there are no any problem on HD graphs at all but then some useful frequency range is lost because I can measure HD5 up to 4800 Hz only. When I do at 96kHz that effect appears at frequencies equal 0.8 of ( Fs/2)/#HD. I could to cut upper limit at 0.75 of that figure and all would be OK at graphs but not all tweeters behave so way. So I decided do not do that. Usually those peaks not large, have constant height and SURELY are shifted one from another. See for example measurements of XT25TG30-04 for HD3, HD4 and HD5.

A quick note on the site about your testing methodology and equipment would be good. If you are aligning the HD plots with the fundamental that generates them, then that would be good to know. I mostly assume that what what is displayed is where it was measured.

Otherwise, if peaks are coincident it says about parasitic resonances. It can be seen from r2904/700009 measurements, HD4 coincide with HD5 at 7k5.

It may be good to flag these when you think these are about the driver vs. the test environment (a quick paragraph/section on the testing results?). I've mostly assumed that coincident peaks in your measurements are caused by resonances exclusively.